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Lpcm sound is considerably quieter than Dolby Digital plus 5.1 or other modes, annoying
Is that normal or not?
Or maybe work in progress?
Is lpcm the best option for my setup , gaming on ps5?
Thanks everyone for helping in advance
Peace
Dawid
Best answer by Rowena B.
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Hi
I appreciate the sentiment, and I will try, but please don’t expect much - this has been requested many times, and the answer is the same each time.
Please also note that it is considered normal, which is why it gets “brushed off” as such.
This is happening to me too, LPCM is not loud enough/doesn’t sound right on PS5- I’ve been waiting for this to be fixed for weeks now. Using BitStream Dolby Digital at the moment.
I have the PS5, ARC, and 900H as well. After reading the thread I still can’t tell the best setting to use at the current moment (until more updates hit). Beside lcpm needing higher volumes is it still the best sound? For 4K blu rays with dtsx tracks does anyone have the current optimal setting? I only get 5.1 DD+ if I turn OFF my eArc and just use ARC pass through which I find odd.
For DTS-encoded Blu-rays, turn eARC on and set the PS5 audio format to Linear PCM so the Arc will play DTS audio as multichannel PCM 5.1/7.1.
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i can switch to dolby digital plus 5.1 -wgich works fine
is that the sonos arc ? sony x9000h? or ps5?
which one is it
and which setup is recomnded to get best possible quality audio?
hdmi 2.1 used , ps5 straight to hdmi 2.1 tv, then from earc to sonos arc.
I'm adding a me too as well. I would really like this issue fixed
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Hi
I completely understand. Unfortunately, issues like this need to be confirmed and thoroughly tested with a variety of equipment before any action can be taken and those actions must wait their turn in the development process - which will be prioritised by the number of users affected. Given that a simple fix is to adjust the volume, and that this generally needs to be done with different media and sources anyway, it is possibly not considered to be of the highest priority.
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Hi
I’m not sure where you’re referring to in the app, but it would be listed in our Release notes for Sonos S2 page.
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So for now is best to use DD+ 5.1 I assume(for playing)?
But who is at fault ,Sonos ,Sony ps5 or Sony tv, that is question?
Hmm
Annoying ,will have to be patient now and just wait, I feel like a beta tester IMHO
I should clarify. My TV is a LG C9 with the latest updates. So it isn’t a TV issue. Unless it is a common issue amongst all TV’s which I doubt.
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Ah - I understand now. I was just looking in the app wondering where you had seen it. Yes, I presume that it would be mentioned there (not everything is mentioned, but enough people are interested that we’d include it in the notes).
Adding myself here.
Set up is X900H, PS5, Sonos Arc.
eARC set to auto on the tv with pass through on auto as well.
Played for about a week with LPCM enabled, verified through Sonos app that multi channel lpcm 7.1 was received, but felt like something was a bit off… Tried Bitstream Dolby on the PS5 just now and the sound is just much fuller, louder, nicer. Depicts a more complete picture.
Please fix LPCM to send/receive 5.1 to match the Arc capabilities.
Hi All.
Sonos currently only supports 5.1 multichannel LCPM, though we are currently working on supporting 7.1 - downmixing to 5.1, not full 7.1 reproduction. So right now, 7.1 LPCM is not supported and your sources should be set to 5.1 LPCM, where possible, or Dolby Digital 5.1 (or DD+ for Atmos).
In time (I have no details to share as to when), 7.1 LPCM will be downmixed to 5.1.0 on the Arc.
Differing content can often be mastered to different volume levels, and when a change in encoding is involved, this is even more likely as the sound track will be adjusted to best fit the parameters and abilities of the codec. Technically, however, LPCM isn’t a codec (it’s uncompressed) and is in fact how all digital equipment handles sound internally - at some point, regardless of any formats/codecs/channels being used, everything is converted to LPCM before being passed to the digital amplifiers inside all Sonos speakers/Amps. Included in the decoding process of Dolby Digital and Atmos to LPCM is a volume boost/range compression. As LPCM isn’t processed (decompressed) like a codec, there isn’t the same opportunity for this to happen. When LPCM is played, you get the closest to the original track possible - the data on the source is relayed directly to the amplifier after mixing.
Therefore, varying volume levels are normal, or they may be an artifact of 7.1 currently being mishandled.
Thanks a lot for the nice write up and update.
Looking forward to seeing this resolved.
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Hi
Do you think I can change something within the PS5 (or else) to get actual surround with LPCM settings or do I have to stick with Dolby? I have no issues with Dolby sound, except for a very subtle delay with the sound, noticeable for example during cutscenes with dialogues.
I advise you stick with Dolby 5.1 output on the PS5 until we support downmixing of LPCM 7.1 tracks on the Arc, and I imagine lip-sync during a game cutscene has more to do with the game engine than delays induced by your hardware (if you don’t notice it elsewhere - playing a movie on the PS5 would be the best test). I’ve certainly noticed it on PC games in the past.
Hey, I just wanted to flag this since I have the luxury of owning both a PS5 and Xbox Series X, an Apple TV 4K, and a LG CX and Sony X900H. I've hooked up all items to Arc + Sub + SL Ones, and have tested Sony’s Atmos sound bar too.
It doesn’t matter which TV, or which console, but outputting to LPCM 5.1 shows up as Mutichannel PCM 7.1 in the Sonos app… and sounds noticeably softer/muted compared to Dolby bitstream.
But flip side, moving to Dolby bitstream on either device ends up resulting in some sort of audio delay. That delay seems like it’s more on the console makers; I don’t have this issue with Apple TV or either devices. And both TVs support eArc and have passthrough enabled. But Multichannel 7.1 and LPCM sound issues are clearly a Sonos issue.
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Hi
If any change is ever implemented, there’s a very good chance that you will know before I do. If I do find out before you do, there’s a very good chance I would not be free to share it the information with you anyway.
So, no, I don’t have any further information to share, I’m afraid.
Hi
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Hi
In conclusion I think I am looking for a definitive answers as to WHY Sonos keeps saying it's totally normal while most users feel it's not. Is it as simple as just increasing volume to get the EXACT same quality, volume gain and dynamic as letting the Sonos handle things?
I don’t know what to say here other than what I have stated here extensively on this thread already.
I hope this helps.
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It’s a work in progress. Unlike most, this feature was announced before work was finished. However, we purposely have not mentioned a time-scale as that induces more complaints if it’s not met. If I did have the information, it’s very likely that I would not be allowed to share it beforehand for this reason.
7.1 downmixing is currently being worked on, so there is no need for passing anything on, nor for starting new topics on the subject - we can already see the interest, in figures, and are already working to meet it.
As soon as we are allowed to share the information, I will do so here - most likely when the update that contains the support for 7.1 downmixing is already out.
Is there an update on this lpcm 7.1 issue?
The Sonos app reports lpcm 7.1 on my blu rays from the Panasonic ub820 (which also reports it is outputting lpcm 7.1). However there is clearly an issue with the arc+sub+surrounds beyond just volume (which I don’t find to be a major issue). There is something being lost in the surrounds and there also appears to be clipping of some sounds.
I tested the 1999 Mummy on 4K uhd with DTS converted to lpcm 7.1 and on iTunes in Dolby digital 5.1. The iTunes version at a similar volume level appeared to have more active surrounds. (Spoiler for the Mummy!) Additionally, in the scene where the ruins collapse into the sands near the end, there’s plenty of bass but horrible clipping sounds that are not present at all on the iTunes version. It’s immediately recognisable as something sounding “wrong” to even a layperson with no interest in any of this stuff, as people watching with me thought my speakers were bust!
All the LPCM 7.1 tracks that I’ve heard sound poor compared to Atmos or even DD5.1, and it’s not due to the volume. It all appears to be working but something is off.
Is there anyone who can test out the Mummy and confirm if this is reproduce-able on other setups?
Thanks!
This is what I have experienced as well, it is not just simply the volume. It is the fidelity of the audio … putting volume aside, the fidelity of a DTS-HD track should be the same regardless of where the decoding takes place (receiver, media player, etc.).
Two of the movies I have experienced it in were The Revenant and Arrival.
While a Blu-ray is being played on the PS5 press the options button on the PS5 controller. Select the three dots. Select Dynamic range control - turn to Off. Also try Audio Format - from LPCM to Bitstream.
The PS5 cannot decode Dolby Atmos when playing back Blu-rays when LPCM is selected(it is the default), you will need to use Bitstream in the Blu-ray hidden menu like above to get Atmos. Also with Dynamic range set to auto (by default) it will act like “Night mode” similar to our Sonos systems.
While you are in there turn off noise reduction if you like all the fine details / film grain the movie producers added in.
I ask only users with PS5’s to try these settings. I do not own the x900 TV but a LG c9 with the full Arc surround set up. It is worth trying bitstream, see what it says in the Sonos app and how it sounds to your ears.
Anyone wants to see what I am talking about....go to Paramount+, open Arrival and watch about five minutes worth from about the 32 minute mark. This will be in Multichannel PCM. This has far more punch than anything else I have listened to in multi channel PCM. Is it just Paramount? Or is it how the studio filmed this? Or a combination of both? But this five minute test alone will show you there is far more than just Sonos going on here. I can also tell you this, the original Jurrasic Park when it was on Max, would blow the windows out on the TRex growl and that was LPCM. It now isn't on Max and can only be watched on Spectrum. Same exact scene is coming through in LPCM like Max....and the entire thing has maybe half the punch it used to have when it was presented on Max. I haven't dealt with BluRay in forever since they shoved us all to streaming, but I'd love to hear what people get when they put in old BluRay disc's of movies such as Days of Thunder. Currently that's only available on Paramount+ and you have to crank the hell out of your system to even hear it. I use to own that movie on disc and I know om bluray it had a massive soundstage...now on streaming it is awful.
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Hi
One thing I can guarantee is that your streaming services are not providing you with LPCM - something in your playback chain must be decoding to it prior to your Sonos equipment receiving it, as LPCM is completely uncompressed and it would take too much server bandwidth to supply everyone with uncompressed audio (not to mention that storing thousands of movies with LPCM would take a lot of unnecessary space).
The only place you’re ever likely to receive a movie with LPCM in the original stream is from BluRay, and even then, I don’t think it likely. LPCM is a fall-back position - BluRay players can extract LPCM from a compressed (but lossless) format knowing that any TV or AV Receiver connected with HDMI will be able to play it (eARC is needed to then pass it to an external audio device like Arc because different wires are used for audio with HDMI-ARC as compared to HDMI). If LPCM is not sent, the TV must know how to decode the given compressed stream, or at least be able to pass it on to the audio device unaltered - neither of which is guaranteed. While it is mandatory that BluRay players support LPCM soundtracks, I don’t think you’ll find many movies with LPCM actually on the disk - they take up too much space best kept for 4K video.
You are largely correct in your findings, however. A UHD disk will often have multiple high quality soundtracks, as well as lesser 5.1 ones. How these are mixed is not only down to the original sound engineer who worked with the director, but also the BluRay authoring engineers. Which of these is used for streaming is up to the streaming service’s engineers and they may well adjust things themselves - I don’t know for sure. The result of this is exactly what you found - the same movie on different services could easily be at differing volumes, even with the same audio format chosen.
One more point about LPCM is that it is what all audio players will use internally - it’s literally the only thing that the microchip responsible for converting digital audio into an analogue signal for amplification understands. Regardless of what format you are listening to, or what source it came from, it was converted to LPCM (or PCM for stereo) before you heard it so the source is always paramount when it comes to how loud it sounds - there’s nothing inherently quiet about LPCM, though if you are receiving it, it is often from a high-dynamic-range source and therefore not as loud as Dolby Digital or stereo PCM.
Hi
One thing I can guarantee is that your streaming services are not providing you with LPCM - something in your playback chain must be decoding to it prior to your Sonos equipment receiving it, as LPCM is completely uncompressed and it would take too much server bandwidth to supply everyone with uncompressed audio (not to mention that storing thousands of movies with LPCM would take a lot of unnecessary space).
The only place you’re ever likely to receive a movie with LPCM in the original stream is from BluRay, and even then, I don’t think it likely. LPCM is a fall-back position - BluRay players can extract LPCM from a compressed (but lossless) format knowing that any TV or AV Receiver connected with HDMI will be able to play it (eARC is needed to then pass it to an external audio device like Arc because different wires are used for audio with HDMI-ARC as compared to HDMI). If LPCM is not sent, the TV must know how to decode the given compressed stream, or at least be able to pass it on to the audio device unaltered - neither of which is guaranteed. While it is mandatory that BluRay players support LPCM soundtracks, I don’t think you’ll find many movies with LPCM actually on the disk - they take up too much space best kept for 4K video.
You are largely correct in your findings, however. A UHD disk will often have multiple high quality soundtracks, as well as lesser 5.1 ones. How these are mixed is not only down to the original sound engineer who worked with the director, but also the BluRay authoring engineers. Which of these is used for streaming is up to the streaming service’s engineers and they may well adjust things themselves - I don’t know for sure. The result of this is exactly what you found - the same movie on different services could easily be at differing volumes, even with the same audio format chosen.
One more point about LPCM is that it is what all audio players will use internally - it’s literally the only thing that the microchip responsible for converting digital audio into an analogue signal for amplification understands. Regardless of what format you are listening to, or what source it came from, it was converted to LPCM (or PCM for stereo) before you heard it so the source is always paramount when it comes to how loud it sounds - there’s nothing inherently quiet about LPCM, though if you are receiving it, it is often from a high-dynamic-range source and therefore not as loud as Dolby Digital or stereo PCM.
I got typing faster than my brain was working. I meant PCM and Miltichannel PCM, not loseless. Sorry about that. I feel like going and borrowing a Bluray player and getting some disc's to test this. As far as streaming goes, it is amazing what happens to the same movie with multichannel PCM when it is moved from one service to another. I'm sure older movies on bluray also suffer from studio limitations at the time of filiming.
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Multichannel PCM and LPCM are the same thing, as far as I am aware (and both are lossless); I can find references to McLPCM in my internal documentation. The terms are largely interchangeable.
The worst part of it all is that engineers who have never even met the director often remix soundtracks for DVDs and BluRays. Although it was video that was affected, this was illustrated by The Matrix movies - on DVD and VHS, the colour grading (green for in the Matrix, blue for the Real World) was exaggerated beyond the level the Wachowski’s ever wanted - it was only fixed with the UHD release. I sure the same happens with audio, only probably more so.
Hi
Multichannel PCM and LPCM are the same thing, as far as I am aware; I can find references to McLPCM in my internal documentation. The terms are largely interchangeable.
The worst part of it all is that engineers who have never even met the director often remix soundtracks for DVDs and BluRays. Although it was video that was affected, this was illustrated by The Matrix movies - on DVD and VHS, the colour grading (green for in the Matrix, blue for the Real World) was exaggerated beyond the level the Wachowski’s ever wanted - it was only fixed with the UHD release. I sure the same happens with audio, only probably more so.
Im able to get titles to play in Multichannel PCM over streaming services. So not saying there isn't loseless multichannel PCM, but im getting some form of compressed version. But yeah, I think the different studios, different services, different manufacturing, etc all play major effect in what we are getting. I know it's just streaming, but listening to titles be shuffled from one service to anther and getting completely different results tell you that the human element 100% comes into play and I'm sure the same can happen with blurays.
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