Dolby Atmos (Spatial Audio) Music: My Opinion

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45 replies

melvimbe

If the 300 is a speaker that uses all its internals when played as a front music player singly or in stereo mode, then things are as expected, and any difference between it and other speakers playing stereo audio, including the 5, is down to design/price points. And given the spatial audio capability, it will do better than the 5 with spatial audio music. 

And any suppression of any driver in any mode can be a part of Trueplay tuning; results that can be toggled off if found unsuitable. If worthwhile, I am sure Sonos can modify Era to behave this way in surround mode.

 

 

I don’t think there is any doubt that Sonos could turn on the front driver.   I wouldn’t think it’s a matter of trueplay tuning so much as it’s a s matter of personal taste.  The right solution might be a matter of turning up the relative volume , the same way it’s already done for sub, height channels, and rear channels.  However, this isn't a pure matter of volume either since the ‘missing audio’ from the front driver is actually played through side/height channels, so turn on the front driver would likely require also removing audio from the other drivers.

 

By the way; am I not correct in thinking that in some modes of even stereo music play, some driver/s on the 5 are muted? No one seems to mind that?

 

If drivers are muted on the Five in certain modes, I can’t put my ear up to the Five to accurately discern that.  I haven’t done it myself, but no doubt that you can tell the front speakers are off with a simple test, as many have done.

Danny
S
Userlevel 7
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Yes, when vertical some tweeters are disabled as otherwise they would fire downwards.

buzz

For the PLAY:5 and FIVE the center facing horizontal tweeter levels are reduced. “Audiophiles” who demand razor sharp imaging will prefer the vertical orientation. Don’t be afraid to use the orientation that sounds “best” (to you).

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@Joffy 

Glad you enjoyed my post and the comments of others.

If I read your post correctly you have an Arc as a standalone speaker connected to your TV. You also have Era 300 x 2 as a stereo pair bonded to a Sub-Mini. If that’s correct may I suggest the following:

The Era 300’s present a good low-end by themselves. The Sub-mini may be better utilized with the Arc. Relieving the Arc of having to process the low-end typically results in better vocal audio while providing a better balance of all frequencies. 

You might try experimenting with with the Arc and Sub-mini bonded together.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
J
Userlevel 3
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@Joffy

Glad you enjoyed my post and the comments of others.

If I read your post correctly you have an Arc as a standalone speaker connected to your TV. You also have Era 300 x 2 as a stereo pair bonded to a Sub-Mini. If that’s correct may I suggest the following:

The Era 300’s present a good low-end by themselves. The Sub-mini may be better utilized with the Arc. Relieving the Arc of having to process the low-end typically results in better vocal audio while providing a better balance of all frequencies. 

You might try experimenting with with the Arc and Sub-mini bonded together.

Originally I just had the Arc and Sub Mini.  I added the 300s shortly after for all round surround.  Experimented with various configurations and latterly surprised as to how good/ sufficient the Arc is alone.  Of course ideally I could toggle the Sub Mini between Arc and 300s, or even toggle between pairing 300s and having as surrounds, but that’s another matter discussed elsewhere in the forum. I don’t want two Subs.  I might get some One SLs as rears to the Arc?  As I say though, the Arc functions well enough alone, for me and of course is best with Atmos material.

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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This stuff has been around for decades now, as part of even cheap graphic equalisers. I don’t know how many people find any use for it in practice even with perhaps better tech supporting it now, such that they toggle between the options frequently to keep customising the sound. Most times, an option is selected after some playing around when the kit is new, one gets used to what it does and how it sounds, and then the availability of the other options is forgotten. Which is probably a good thing for music enjoyment!

Yes, it has been available for years.

The cheaper and older versions are very limited and the sound questionable. Not so the higher end and newer designs. The move to AI powered adjustments is going to be even more interesting.

I found the room emulation setup a nice improvement over plain Stereo mode for a lot of my listening. Compared to just driving all 5 channels with the stereo signal, to get some use from the other speakers, I thought it added quite a bit.

I had several modes I liked quite well for general listening, a couple others that were great for solo piano or organ and one that had a lot of delay/echo was fun to feed chants and the like. My Denon and Yamaha AVRs did sound distinctly different even when trying to pick similar enhanced modes. Stereo and the all speakers stereo modes sounded very close, hard to pin it down more than that due to speaker and room issues.

buzz

The latest high end YAMAHA models will map the speaker locations in three dimensions.

A feature from decades past: After measuring the characteristics of respected halls, the room modes emulate a hall’s reverb characteristics.

K

Probably based on three things - the genre of music I like and listen to, and the way it is recorded in the studio, both of which lead to the third thing, of a preference for listening to it close to the speakers such that room response is minimised, I see no point in adding back reverb characteristics of a hall, which would sound unnatural for such music. Now if I listened to a lot of church organs, things would be different, but I believe that most music catalogues contain performances recorded to give best results in the near field and close to it. Except electronic dance/trance music, I grant, where a different outcome is aimed at.  

Where I would welcome progress is in expanding the size of sweet spot for stereo audio.

Movies are a completely different beast of course, where there is much to be gained by submerging the viewer in the sound field. Except perhaps for movies like Casablanca, where it does not matter.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Edit

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
melvimbe

Good post but I feel like I have been experiencing true stereo separation for a while now as I do hear generally vocals in the front and various instruments left and right, with panning of any or all from left to right and back again now and then. Even with two small homepod minis I got this effect, and especially with decent Bose headphones.

With two Era 300 as a stereo pair I am fairly happy but perhaps need to still try different positions because I am not amazed with Spatial Audio at all so far. I do notice the difference though so perhaps I was just expecting too much. I haven’t for example found a track where I feel anything is coming from above or behind me. 🤔

 

I have a room with the a pair of Era 300s (can’t really call it a stereo pair?) + sub and another room with Arc + 2 Ones for rear + sub.  The Arc setup is way better than the 300s.  Audio from the rear is a much bigger factor than from height or sides.  You aren’t going to find a track where you feel something coming from the rear as you don't have any speakers designed to fill that role.

Kind of an aside, but it’s this that leads me to believe that Sonos will be offering a music setup with front and rear speakers eventually….with separate front speakers.

Danny
K

Can Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos be used interchangeably, or are they two different approaches to surround sound?

The one time I heard the Apple version of this for music using iPod in ear phones a few months ago, I found a big difference between stereo audio and music playing via the iPods, and I was not too impressed by the new sound. Perhaps because I am used to listening via L/R stereo. 

I can see how these surround technologies can enhance the movie experience at home, but even at a live music gig, the main sounds come from the stage in front; there are no musicians in rear balconies. I am therefore still doubtful about the point of all this for music listening at home that aims to approximate a live gig.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@Kumar 

It’s been my experience (short as it may be) using my Sonos Era 300’s in stereo pair vs my Fives in stereo pair; the latter gives better results with an excellent stereo recording. In fact the Era 300’s were not meant to be superior to the Fives when listening to a stereo recording.

However, listening to an excellent Dolby Atmos (spatial audio) recording the Era 300’s offer up a much better sense of instrument placement. IMO it's so good that I dare say with your eyes closed you’ll think you’re at a live venue. That is where the Era 300’s out perform the Fives. Of course you can’t get Dolby Atmos out of the Fives anyway.

In a properly mixed Dolby Atmos (spatial audio) recording you won’t get sound coming from overhead or behind using a single or a pair of Era 300’s. But there is an exception….

I also have a pair of Era 300’s used as surrounds with my Arc and sub x 2. Playing a Dolby Atmos (spatial audio) recording where there are vocals _lead and background_the lead vocals remained up front with the Arc; but in certain passages the background vocals were more clearly heard in the Era 300 rears. Thus giving a sense of music coming from behind. That experience should not be confused with using rears in Full for music when playing a basic stereo recording through the Arc (which I never liked).

However to answer your question...”Can Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos be used interchangeably, or are they two different approaches to surround sound?”  Here’s the best explanation I found...

“In a nutshell, Dolby Atmos creates the effect of watching a movie at a cinema or listening to music at a live concert — the sound comes from all around you (center, left, right, above and behind) — and Spatial Audio adds another layer that makes you feel like you're in movie or moving around at the concert”. _BY TUCKER BOWE

Read the full text at this link.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
K

Further to the nutshell definition this is what Apple says!: If you subscribe to Apple Music, you can listen to select songs in Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos.

And on top, Amazon has their own version that is offered on newer movies, using existing hardware that does not do Atmos. Unfortunately there is no toggle switch for such, so one cannot easily discern what extra experience is being offered under their label of surround sound.

And referring to same nutshell - I get the movie bit, but why should I want or need an approximation of “moving around at the concert”, if I have the best seat in the hall as is the aim of every mixing engineer to provide?

I have not heard the Era, and having decided for still valid reasons to stay on S1, I do not expect to ever do so. My question on what you say about them is therefore limited to: When you say they outperform the 5 units when fed with spatial audio music recording largely because the 5 cannot do spatial, can this spatial audio thing on the Era be turned off when regular stereo music is being played? 

And other than the usual price to performance assessments, I am surprised to read this: In fact the Era 300’s were not meant to be superior to the Fives when listening to a stereo recording.

Is this because the spatial audio box of tricks in the Era cannot be toggled off to play stereo masters in just stereo?

K

The Era 300’s do not perform as well with stereo because the front facing driver only activates when it senses Dolby Atmos content.

 

That seems like a lost opportunity of expanding the listening sweet spot for stereo audio; a small part of the listening space being so is an ongoing drawback of stereo music for decades now.

Era then is definitely not for me, even if the S1/S2 thing wasn’t there; most of my favourite performers from the jazz/blues genre are dead, and stereo mastering is all that will be available of their performances and I would always pick a system that did not compromise on delivery of those recordings in trying go spatial.

Good insights; thanks!

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Dolby Atmos versus Spatial Audio

Dolby Atmos has reinvented how entertainment is created and experienced, allowing creatives everywhere to place each sound exactly where they want it to go, for a more realistic and immersive audio experience.

https://www.dolby.com/technologies/dolby-atmos/

Apple spatial audio takes 5.1, 7.1 and Dolby Atmos signals and applies directional audio filters, adjusting the frequencies that each ear hears so that sounds can be placed virtually anywhere in 3D space. Sounds will appear to be coming from in front of you, from the sides, the rear and even above. The idea is to recreate the audio experience of a cinema.

 

A good look at both.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05/18/apples-spatial-audio-and-dolby-atmos-explained

 

 

S
Userlevel 7
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The Era 300’s do not perform as well with stereo because the front facing driver only activates when it senses Dolby Atmos content.

There is a switch in settings to make the Era 300 not activate the front driver when sending it Dolby Atmos material. However, preventing the Era from sensing Dolby Atmos content will not improve its performance with stereo music. The switch is mainly to prevent poorly recorded Dolby Atmos material (Music) from being processed_which can sound terrible.

Is that true?  The front driver only activates for Atmos content???  So in normal stereo use it is deactivated?  I thought there was an ‘issue’ with the driver being deactivated when used as a surround - but didn’t know it was switched off in stereo.  Is there somewhere discussing this?  I totally get the Eras are Atmos capable speakers but I’m not sure about expecting people to have two sets of speakers, one for Atmos use and another for stereo use.

K

Is that true?  The front driver only activates for Atmos content???  So in normal stereo use it is deactivated?

That does sound strange because IMO surround tech should enhance existing functionality of a home audio stereo speaker, not replace a part of it. 

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

I'm still confused tbh

You said “The Era 300’s do not perform as well with stereo because the front facing driver only activates when it senses Dolby Atmos content.”. Although you have changed something, if this isn't true (it still says this BTW), and they are active, what is the reasoning for them not performing as well?  Had you thought it was because the centre driver wasn't active but more likely it's just a lower cost speaker that just doesn't sound as good as its bigger brother?

melvimbe

Some fans of the “recreate the venue’s sound” spend a lot of effort on perfect speaker and listener placement along with a lot of reflection suppressing room treatments. Some of the listening rooms I have been in sound very dull and everything seems quiet, not just music. You really need loud speakers to fill the room compared to a more normal or a Live” room.

 

 

I find the whole “recreate the venue” ideal to be rather interesting. On one hand, I understand that it’s familiar and may bring back memories etc.  And logistically/practically, a front stage is the most logical way to experience a music performance live.  However, there isn’t a reason for playback of recorded music needs to follow the same standards, or that it is objectively better when it does follow the standard. 

While you certainly can get recordings of ‘live music’, it’s generally not as desired as recordings from a studio, since you won’t have imperfections in the recording, or the audience singing (badly sometimes) along, etc.  I mean, no one is trying to recreate standing with a solo cup of cheap beer in your hand with some stranger bumping into you. 

  Also, if you go to a public location (lots of people) where recorded music is playing, you’re rarely going to have a front stage for the music.  That certainly so that you can get move even volume control in the space, but is that music now inferior somehow?  It’s been years since I’ve been to a club setting, but they don’t try and recreate a front stage, do they?

I don’t know, the whole thing is just weird to me.  Sure you want your music to sound natural in a way, but music is pretty much organization and structure out of chaos.  I mean, an electric guitar or keyboard are not natural.  Amplification is not natural.

I like spatial audio in general in two cases, if I had to sum it up.  Some music really is designed to be surrounding you entirely and take you away from wherever you are.  The word ‘epic’ comes to mind.  It’s no different than certain movies/shows that are supposed to take you into a different world than just a slight distraction from where you are now.  The other is just a slight change to something already familiar.  Hearing an old song in spatial (done well) is sort of like hearing a remake of an old song.

Danny
S
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I agree with that, but the edited, ‘clarifying’ post still says “The Era 300’s do not perform as well with stereo because the front facing driver only activates when it senses Dolby Atmos content.”, hence my confusion.

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