Answered

complaint about the End of Software Updates

  • 22 January 2020
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62 replies

jgatie

What would you buy instead of Bluesound?

 

Every smart speaker with embedded software is going to suffer the same fate eventually.  

B
Userlevel 1

What would you buy instead of Bluesound?

B
Userlevel 1

Sonos and  Denon settled out of court and HEOS continues to be sold.

Besides Bluesound, Sonos is also suing Google and has publicly stated that they will sue Amazon after Google. 

The lawsuits aren't surprising since Google and Amazon are reportedly out selling Sonos big time. 

There are a lot of reasons to not buy Bluesound but being sued by Sonos wouldn't factor too high for me, ymmv. (But TBH I would never buy Bluesound)

 

What would you but instead of Bluesound?

jgatie

The fact that it took the CEO of Sonos all of 2 days to issue an apology email to me tells me this isn’t a faceless company, and that my complaints are being heard.  But of course you left that out.  Sonos employee or mole maybe?

 

Nope, not an employee at all.  That nonsense was debunked in the main thread on this subject.  In short, employees are marked as such. 

And so what if the CEO issued an apology, you don’t trust Sonos, and you are “not buying one more piece of Sonos equipment.  Ever.”  Right?  

N

My comments about Bluesound were an afterthought.  Did you want to comment about the main point of this thread? Like how I’ve spent several thousands of dollars, and now Sonos doesn’t want to support the product despite there being very little innovation in the past 10 years?

 

10 years?  The iPhone app, the Android app, TV connected devices, surround sound, Trueplay, Voice control, direct play from other apps, Airplay 2; all developed in the last 10 years.  Being a touch hyperbolic, no? 

And yes, the abandoning of legacy units sucks, as do the solutions.  But that is the reality with modern smart devices.  Anybody with an inkling of knowledge in hardware and software knew this day was coming.  Nothing anyone can do about it except stay at legacy, split their system, or upgrade.  Not really that much to talk about.  Complain? Sure.  But I personally don’t rage at nameless faceless corporations, nor do I hold their support staff to task for things out of their control.  Therefore, I tend not to whinge on support forums.  Rather than that, I vote with my wallet. 

Besides, you already stated that you were never buying another Sonos product.  The subject seems pretty closed. Which is why I concentrated on your stated alternative.  

The fact that it took the CEO of Sonos all of 2 days to issue an apology email to me tells me this isn’t a faceless company, and that my complaints are being heard.  But of course you left that out.  Sonos employee or mole maybe?

jgatie

My comments about Bluesound were an afterthought.  Did you want to comment about the main point of this thread? Like how I’ve spent several thousands of dollars, and now Sonos doesn’t want to support the product despite there being very little innovation in the past 10 years?

 

10 years?  The iPhone app, the Android app, TV connected devices, surround sound, Trueplay, Voice control, direct play from other apps, Airplay 2; all developed in the last 10 years.  Being a touch hyperbolic, no? 

And yes, the abandoning of legacy units sucks, as do the solutions.  But that is the reality with modern smart devices.  Anybody with an inkling of knowledge in hardware and software knew this day was coming.  Nothing anyone can do about it except stay at legacy, split their system, or upgrade.  Not really that much to talk about.  Complain? Sure.  But I personally don’t rage at nameless faceless corporations, nor do I hold their support staff to task for things out of their control.  Therefore, I tend not to whinge on support forums.  Rather than that, I vote with my wallet. 

Besides, you already stated that you were never buying another Sonos product.  The subject seems pretty closed. Which is why I concentrated on your stated alternative.  

J

Er wireless home theater, play from device (until Apple sabotaged it for iOS only), Trueplay, Voice control (Alexa and Google), removing need for wired device, portable speaker with new Trueplay, Spotify Connect, Airplay 2, hugely expanded streaming services, BLE for setup…

And all the features that came as software updates were free upgrades. 

 

N

Advancements in streaming technology as it pertains to Sonos technology are incremental, and certainly will not make a device obsolete in 5 to 10 years.  I can see right through what sonos is trying to do: sell more product to its loyal users.  Except what I read is that many, including myself, have lost confidence in Sonos.  In 2019 it was losing support to play the tens of thousands of songs I own on my apple phone.  Now in 2020 it’s anything older than 5 years.  Hear me now SONOS:  I currently own a soundbar, a Play1, 6 Connects, 2 Connect Amps, and I was planning a whole new wave of additional purchases.  But I’m not buying one more piece of Sonos equipment.  Ever.  How can I if I can’t trust you at all? 

 

Everyone who reads this go check out Bluesound.  New, young, fresh company… Looks great on paper. Does everything Sonos does and much more.  Plays the music I own, from my phone. Might be time to sell off my stuff and upgrade to a different company.

 

AP

 

Funny, Bluesound can’t play from your phone either. And unlike Sonos they dropped it without even taking a year to try to fix it.  Like to reconsider your choice? 

My comments about Bluesound were an afterthought.  Did you want to comment about the main point of this thread? Like how I’ve spent several thousands of dollars, and now Sonos doesn’t want to support the product despite there being very little innovation in the past 10 years?

J

Sonos and  Denon settled out of court and HEOS continues to be sold.

Besides Bluesound, Sonos is also suing Google and has publicly stated that they will sue Amazon after Google. 

The lawsuits aren't surprising since Google and Amazon are reportedly out selling Sonos big time. 

There are a lot of reasons to not buy Bluesound but being sued by Sonos wouldn't factor too high for me, ymmv. (But TBH I would never buy Bluesound)

 

jgatie

Advancements in streaming technology as it pertains to Sonos technology are incremental, and certainly will not make a device obsolete in 5 to 10 years.  I can see right through what sonos is trying to do: sell more product to its loyal users.  Except what I read is that many, including myself, have lost confidence in Sonos.  In 2019 it was losing support to play the tens of thousands of songs I own on my apple phone.  Now in 2020 it’s anything older than 5 years.  Hear me now SONOS:  I currently own a soundbar, a Play1, 6 Connects, 2 Connect Amps, and I was planning a whole new wave of additional purchases.  But I’m not buying one more piece of Sonos equipment.  Ever.  How can I if I can’t trust you at all? 

 

Everyone who reads this go check out Bluesound.  New, young, fresh company… Looks great on paper. Does everything Sonos does and much more.  Plays the music I own, from my phone. Might be time to sell off my stuff and upgrade to a different company.

 

AP

 

Funny, Bluesound can’t play from your phone either. And unlike Sonos they dropped it without even taking a year to try to fix it.  Like to reconsider your choice? 

J

Sonos successfully sued Denon for patent infringement. Currently suing Bluesound. Thst is how it does everything Sonos does!  Watch that space.

Also I think I read that Bluesound had dropped playing from an iPhone too. Maybe I am mistaken.

Edit no I wasn't mistaken

 

https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360017557514-WARNING-no-longer-able-to-directly-play-from-iTunes-library

 

N

Advancements in streaming technology as it pertains to Sonos technology are incremental, and certainly will not make a device obsolete in 5 to 10 years.  I can see right through what sonos is trying to do: sell more product to its loyal users.  Except what I read is that many, including myself, have lost confidence in Sonos.  In 2019 it was losing support to play the tens of thousands of songs I own on my apple phone.  Now in 2020 it’s anything older than 5 years.  Hear me now SONOS:  I currently own a soundbar, a Play1, 6 Connects, 2 Connect Amps, and I was planning a whole new wave of additional purchases.  But I’m not buying one more piece of Sonos equipment.  Ever.  How can I if I can’t trust you at all? 

 

Everyone who reads this go check out Bluesound.  New, young, fresh company… Looks great on paper. Does everything Sonos does and much more.  Plays the music I own, from my phone. Might be time to sell off my stuff and upgrade to a different company.

 

AP

melvimbe

In reality, they should sell the speakers with a subscription. For example, buy a speaker for $500 with a 3 year software subscription, and then you have to pay monthly or buy a new one to keep your subs going (the updates). This would have been much more honest than saying the speakers "are old" and can't support playing music, which is a lie - they can keep them going basically for as long as they want to. 

 

 

As it stands now, you have a minimum of 5 years without a subscription.  I’m not seeing how paying full price for a speaker (assuming you’re talking about the play:5) with a subscription on top of that would be more appealing to customers.  If there was just a rental/subscription fee without having to buy the speaker, that would be different.   As it stands right now, if a speaker was no longer supportted after 5 years (60 months), the $500 speaker is costing about $8.33 a month...most likely cheaper.  And that really only covers the period where you are receiving regular updates, since you will receive bug fixes and such with current functionality after that period, as it stands right now.

 

But then, that would require guts to actually say it - and a lot more competence to implement it. Would I pay, most likely yes - since the expectations would be CLEAR. 

 

 

I would not have.   Besides the fact that your plan costs more, even if it worked out to be even I would rather own then rent, so that I could then sell the unit if I no longer needed it.  Sonos has the trade in program if I prefer.  My overall costs are less than what you’re proposing.

 

Believe me, I never comment online, I find it absurd most of the time - but Sonos botched this. They built a customer base with certain expectations, and they are choosing a dishonest way to change (blame technology, instead of admitting they need more cash).

 

I agree that they botched this.  It could have been presented in a much more positive manner, and I think Sonos should have let customers know this was coming a lot sooner.  But hindsight is 20/20.  I don’t believe Sonos is lying about the limits of the hardware in legacy products.

Danny
melvimbe

The Brand is dead. Worst strategic mistake made by a growth tech. Every new purchase will now be BOSE. I can integrate through alexa. Just sadly am not able to pair brands. 

 

 

Bose is actually on it’s second line of smart speakers.  They decided not to bother trying to integrate their legacy and modern products together, so they just ended the first line...no new functionality, and started a new one.    

 

 

 

The CEO needs to do considerably more and i can only assume he and the board are just STUPID to not think this will affect loyalty and SALES.

 

 

Of course the CEO knew this would not go over well.  It was even mentioned in the investors report. 

 

 

Anyone thinking of buying a new Sonos will be thinking ‘wait my product is redundant in 5 years and not future proof’

 

 

It is a minumum of 5 years after the device has stopped production. There is some future proofing, as the legacy have gotten many features that were not available originally.  And honestly, anyone buying a smart speaker, really any device that is software base, should consider the fact that it will not last forever.

 

One can only hope that the cash hungry board, through their lack of care for loyal customers will be hit hard where it hurts in their dividends and share price. Because this is the only way these types will learn.

 

 

I don’t think that will do customers any good.

 

Sonos Board have you not heard of ‘competition, consulting customers, consumer choice’ ? wake up and smell the smart speaker market!

 

Danny
B
Userlevel 3

The problem is no one trusts Sonos PR spinning their own announcement about ditching support for their original and best customers.

 

Shouldn’t one wait until they actually break their word before going off half cocked? 

They already did! 

In reality, they should sell the speakers with a subscription. For example, buy a speaker for $500 with a 3 year software subscription, and then you have to pay monthly or buy a new one to keep your subs going (the updates). This would have been much more honest than saying the speakers "are old" and can't support playing music, which is a lie - they can keep them going basically for as long as they want to. 

But then, that would require guts to actually say it - and a lot more competence to implement it. Would I pay, most likely yes - since the expectations would be CLEAR. 

Believe me, I never comment online, I find it absurd most of the time - but Sonos botched this. They built a customer base with certain expectations, and they are choosing a dishonest way to change (blame technology, instead of admitting they need more cash).

 

T
Userlevel 2
Badge

The Brand is dead. Worst strategic mistake made by a growth tech. Every new purchase will now be BOSE. I can integrate through alexa. Just sadly am not able to pair brands. The CEO needs to do considerably more and i can only assume he and the board are just STUPID to not think this will affect loyalty and SALES. Anyone thinking of buying a new Sonos will be thinking ‘wait my product is redundant in 5 years and not future proof’

One can only hope that the cash hungry board, through their lack of care for loyal customers will be hit hard where it hurts in their dividends and share price. Because this is the only way these types will learn.

Sonos Board have you not heard of ‘competition, consulting customers, consumer choice’ ? wake up and smell the smart speaker market!

jgatie

The problem is no one trusts Sonos PR spinning their own announcement about ditching support for their original and best customers.

 

Shouldn’t one wait until they actually break their word before going off half cocked? 

B
Userlevel 1

OMG, just adding my voice. You really blew it. Now I am stuck with a useless ZP90 even after you said you are no longer doing this. Sonos owes me an explanation and compensation.

L
Userlevel 3
Badge

The problem is no one trusts Sonos PR spinning their own announcement about ditching support for their original and best customers.

jgatie

i agree

why not design an adapter or “bridge” so that the old will interface with the new and continue as a whole system

id buy it ….i say again …. id buy it !!!!

ps

I don't give hoot about all the future advance updates ,

Don't want them at the expense of my working system

 

 

If you don't care about future updates, what's the problem?  Your system will be frozen at the current software and you can use it just like you do today.  You'll even get bug fixes and security patches.  You just won't get any new features.

 

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Very informative.

“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)
F
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

i agree

why not design an adapter or “bridge” so that the old will interface with the new and continue as a whole system

id buy it ….i say again …. id buy it !!!!

ps

I don't give hoot about all the future advance updates ,

Don't want them at the expense of my working system

G
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

The Connect:Amps which are moving to legacy in May came out in 2010, and the newer version of them from 2015 is still considered a modern unit. These older devices just don’t have the needed hardware to keep up with the demands of the software coming later this year.


This is the key part of Ryan’s answer for me. A legacy ZP100, ZP120 or Connect:Amp could have its hardware upgraded. 
 

That’s an option Sonos needs to look at. If they started to offer it now, they’d increase the chances of having the bulk of the uptake done and returned by May. 
 

If it means that upgraded kit won’t have mics and so won’t be Alexa/whatever compliant, I bet a huge proportion of customers would not be remotely concerned. 

F
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Hi

posted this reply on that forum 

its now being held back by the monitor for posting approval !!!!!

surprise surprise 

fobskid

fed on bullshi*e kept in the dark

D
Userlevel 3

just received my " 30% off special deal " e-mail from Sonos ...
in the past year iv spent £2000 / £2500 grand on their expensive kit for all over my house
Why ? cause it worked straight out of the box with no complications for me or my kids ...
Not ever was i told at the point of sale that my kit would self break and be worthless as a working hi-fi
What this tells me is ... i need to quickly sell all my kit on the "bay" and try and recover some of my investment
Do not EVER buy any of their kit ever again as all the new kit will eventually go "bricked " once again
What a greedy stupid decision from Sonos ... just to make even more money in my opinion

PS

Just looked on the "bay" and all the second hand prices have collapsed !

update

What a massive storm on the internet ... so much anger ... could be the makings of a horror movie !
I wish i was a fly on the Sonos boardroom wall ... what a self inflicted total nightmare .
But seriously ...
It doesn't matter what Sonos does or says now ... the Sonos brand is now very toxic if not dead !
Even if they roll back everything to "as was" I for one will not be buying any more of their kit.
I have lost all trust in the product and the company. I realise if it goes bust nothing will work
but i consider my existing kit as worthless now anyway ... even if i bought new ... it will eventually go "Legacy"
 
SONOS = LEGACY = SCRAP . Lets call it what it really is !

This whole Sonos debacle has made me realise that any Internet connected hardware from any company is time limited.
Why spend top money on the best products { which Sonos was } when a cheaper alternative is available
When it goes "Legacy" i wont lose so much of my hard earned money if i buy cheaper ...

PS

I hope that if it does go bust all the hard working innocent staff get re-employed in any Sonos alternative company .
 
They are the ones who will really be paying the price for this crazy stupid mess ....

Yours

A Totally 100% angry pissed off disillusioned never ever again former Sonos advocate
 

Hi Fobskid, I started this discussion without knowing how to use the site but it would seem there’s a ‘main’ discussion for this topic with 85000+ hits at: https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969

It won’t make you feel any better but you’ll see you’re in good company! ...anyhow well said - I share your pain...

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