Constant Updates REALLY ANNOYING



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Userlevel 7
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Yes, it is, when "update now" appears on a couple of dozen machines, at various times, and the entire system is down for several minutes, followed by numerous speaker dropouts that require individual attention. If Sonos would simply organize their updates a little more intelligently, instead of rapid firing them off like kids playing paintball, the platform would make a lot more sense.

There is no need for updates ever couple of weeks. If it doesn't interfere with your workflow, you need to expand your horizons a bit and realize that not everyone works off of one device or machine. It changes nothing, however - the updates come too frequently and there is ZERO reason for it.


I sympathize with how annoying this can be, however, continually claiming that the updates have no value really isn't adding to your argument. I get that your system is fine, you aren't interested in any new features and don't have any bugs to deal with. However, other customers do want these new features and their bugs fixed. Maybe they can wait a little longer, so that you don't get annoyed as often, and that's something that the Sonos team has to decide on. It is quite clear that they are aware that some find it annoying, which is why they introduce the automatic updates for the speaker firmware.
but Sonos doesn't offer support if your system isn't updated to the current version.
I am not surprised at this, but is this stated official policy?
If so, I have to again say there is much merit in the points being made by those unhappy with this trend because:
Automatic updates are not really so for desktop users.
And while everyone including Sonos suggest turning updates off if these are not to one's taste/convenience, there is this withdrawal of support.
And no one has yet said why there is such a churn of updates now compared to a few years ago for what is a music system, at the end of the day. Other than streaming services as a popular music source, what has changed? And the related question - apart from Trueplay and cosmetic UI changes - what has changed to improve the essential quality of the user experience since 2011? Bug fixes are needed by everyone, agreed, but many of the bugs are caused in the first place by all the churn as well.
Sonos needs to take this criticism on board and bring some discipline to its upgrade release process. Particularly when it is so dependent on network quality to be seamless and fault free.
PS: I just noticed the "like kids playing paintball" comment by pacificdiver. I endorse it fully.
Userlevel 2
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Yes, it is, when "update now" appears on a couple of dozen machines, at various times, and the entire system is down for several minutes, followed by numerous speaker dropouts that require individual attention. If Sonos would simply organize their updates a little more intelligently, instead of rapid firing them off like kids playing paintball, the platform would make a lot more sense.

There is no need for updates ever couple of weeks. If it doesn't interfere with your workflow, you need to expand your horizons a bit and realize that not everyone works off of one device or machine. It changes nothing, however - the updates come too frequently and there is ZERO reason for it.


I sympathize with how annoying this can be, however, continually claiming that the updates have no value really isn't adding to your argument.


I've never claimed the updates have no value. My criticism is that the updates come far too frequently, and that they would be better served in larger portions, on a much less-frequent time scale. Obviously, systems need to be updated, but they don't need to be tweaked every couple of weeks. Sonos could update its system quarterly, and the world would move on just fine.
Sonos could update its system quarterly, and the world would move on just fine.
Yes, but it would need more process discipline in Sonos to do this.
While moderators here claim to read all posts, you may want to send an email to CEO Spence, with links to a bunch of threads here that contain the same gripe. No assurances of outcome of course, but a chance of spending energy to more effect.
I am not surprised at this, but is this stated official policy?
You're a long time member of these boards, so you should be aware of the answer already.


If so, I have to again say there is much merit in the points being made by those unhappy with this trend because:
Automatic updates are not really so for desktop users.

How many desktops do you have? 20, 30, 50...
I am not surprised at this, but is this stated official policy?
You're a long time member of these boards, so you should be aware of the answer already.


If so, I have to again say there is much merit in the points being made by those unhappy with this trend because:
Automatic updates are not really so for desktop users.

How many desktops do you have? 20, 30, 50...

Pardon me for not being as clever as you and point me to where this is stated by Sonos.
And how many desktops I have is not relevant to the fact that updates are not automatic for desktop users, contrary to what you have been asserting over and over.
Userlevel 7
Badge +21
I don't really want to get into a debate about update frequency but I didn't want to let the assertion, made repeatedly, that Sonos updates "ever few weeks" go in-challenged. Taken from this site https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/31941/sonos/version-history

The updates since 2017 have been as follows:-

Date Version Weeks
27/03/2019 10.1 8.1
29/01/2019 10.0 8.1
03/12/2018 9.3 2.7
14/11/2018 9.2 10.0
05/09/2018 9.1 15.1
22/05/2018 8.5.1 4.7
19/04/2018 8.5 3.9
23/03/2018 8.4 6.6
05/02/2018 8.3 2.6
18/01/2018 8.2.2 8.9
17/11/2017 8.2 1.6
06/11/2017 8.1.1 0.4
03/11/2017 8.1 3.1
12/10/2017 8.0 7.0
24/08/2017 7.4

The average time between updates from 24 Aug 2017 to 27 Mar 2019 is 6 weeks. Some certainly have been a few weeks but my understanding of a few weeks would not be 6
Stuart, any idea what was the average time between updates in 2012? I could not find it anywhere. Comparing that to the above is more pertinent, I suggest. Or even to any year prior to 2010.
Userlevel 6
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Speaking of assertions and 'These are the only releases....' etc.., where is 10.0.2 and 10.0.3? They were separate bug fix releases too from memory. Assuming all 'updates' are being discussed - whether that be player or App.
EDIT: Looks like they were released within days of each other about a month ago
( https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/sonos-10-0-is-now-available-6820022/index6.html )
Userlevel 7
Badge +21
Speaking of assertions and 'These are the only releases....' etc.., where is 10.0.2 and 10.0.3? They were separate bug fix releases too from memory. Assuming all 'updates' are being discussed - whether that be player or App.
EDIT: Looks like they were released within days of each other about a month ago
( https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/sonos-10-0-is-now-available-6820022/index6.html )


I was mindful that the site I linked may not be complete which is why I noted for full disclosure.

But just my own feeling based on updates is that it's not every few weeks on average
Memory is notoriously unreliable; with that said, I'd say that I remember this being a once in a quarter exercise back in 2011/12 that is now once in a month.
I have a feeling that the churn started when Sonos started feeling the heat from Echo. They felt that they have to do something even if it often meant churn minus noticeable forward motion. Which led to more bugs needing to fixed as an inevitable consequence, causing more churn.
Userlevel 7
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I'd like to think that Sonos are on top of this in terms of they know exactly how the updates have changed over the years and the effect on users. It's clearly a concern.

To me they could perhaps create different levels of updates - minor and major for the want of better explanation. If you select don't update then minor updates will do nothing but majors will notify the user. These should be restricted to, say, twice a year
That is one way of handling this; or major could be defined as where the version number changes - as in from 10 to 11. The problem then is what do you do with the 11.0.1 that usually is the bug fix for 11.0?!
Userlevel 7
Badge +21
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I've never claimed the updates have no value. My criticism is that the updates come far too frequently, and that they would be better served in larger portions, on a much less-frequent time scale. Obviously, systems need to be updated, but they don't need to be tweaked every couple of weeks. Sonos could update its system quarterly, and the world would move on just fine.


You said there is zero reason for the update frequency. Isn't that the same as their being no value in the updates? Yes, you're correct, frequency is an important aspect, but also irrelevant to the point I was making. Your assumption is that those who are interested in the features and bug fixes that come with an update gain nothing from getting it sooner rather than later...later being something like once a quarter. And that just isn't true.

I'm not at all saying that Sonos doesn't need to consider the frequency of the updates, but to assume they don't consider it, that you have all the information they do in making these decisions, or that they are just wrong...doesn't really add up. Your frustration is valid, but your conclusion that there is no reason for them is not.


I am not surprised at this, but is this stated official policy?


I'm not sure if or where it's written down, but Sonos staff have stated this in round about ways since I've been hear. They may assist with network issues and such, but if the reported issue is something that has been addressed in the current version, they aren't going to give you a one-off patch for your issue. I imagine that help desk will probably ask you to upgrade to the current version before attempting to troubleshoot anything. As I'm sure you recall, this was a big issue, when it came to the support of the CR100 and the ipod dock.


If so, I have to again say there is much merit in the points being made by those unhappy with this trend because:
Automatic updates are not really so for desktop users.
And while everyone including Sonos suggest turning updates off if these are not to one's taste/convenience, there is this withdrawal of support.


To be clear, you don't have to have automatic updates on to get support. It's more accurate to say that if you're unwilling to upgrade to the current version when reporting an issue, the Sonos support you can get is surely going to be rather limited. Maybe Sonos can provide some general network advice, maybe tell you the results of a diagnostic, I'm not sure. I don't want to speak for Sonos exactly. Even if Sonos has it officially stated somewhere, Sonos has a habit of providing better service than they promise when it comes to things like this, such as providing replacement speakers at a discount for out of warranty products.


And no one has yet said why there is such a churn of updates now compared to a few years ago for what is a music system, at the end of the day. Other than streaming services as a popular music source, what has changed? And the related question - apart from Trueplay and cosmetic UI changes - what has changed to improve the essential quality of the user experience since 2011? Bug fixes are needed by everyone, agreed, but many of the bugs are caused in the first place by all the churn as well.


There have been several new products, new features and feature changes, voice control support, security changes, etc. Sonos will provide release notes and information about each update that they provide, at a high level anyway.


Sonos needs to take this criticism on board and bring some discipline to its upgrade release process. Particularly when it is so dependent on network quality to be seamless and fault free.


I'm just not seeing the conclusion that they don't already have discipline about this. We don't know what sort of decision process they go through in deciding when to update, nor how often they delay something they want out there but don't want to annoy customers. They clearly have a concern for it since they added the automatic updates feature. It's not something they would add if they were not aware of how some customers feel about updates.

But yes, it's good to let Sonos know how you feel about the updates. Maybe not too helpful, but good to see suggestions on how it could improve to be less intrusive without hindering customers who want/need the updates.
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Seems it may be time for a Sonos employee to directly comment on this thread again, and specifically attempt to answer some of the legitimate questions posed. Wade through some of the empty complaints and there's merit among this madness for their representation and clarification.
They clearly have a concern for it since they added the automatic updates feature. It's not something they would add if they were not aware of how some customers feel about updates.

The thing is that automatic updates does not work for those of us that use the desktop controller. I don't know how well it works for androids too, going by my experience - I do not see that my phone app has automatically renewed itself even with the phone set to do this automatically for apps, which it does for others. Maybe there is another thing to toggle just for Sonos that I have missed, but this isn't a big deal for me, stuck as I anyway am with having to manually update the computer controller every time.

And of course, automatic in all cases only works for those that have the network quality and set up to be where Sonos needs it to be. I have no idea what that is as a percent of users.

On the process discipline, let us agree to disagree; I am not seeing it to the extent I would like to, but that may be just me, I agree.

Finally, for some of us, this is just a music system; it is all very well to say that it is software etc etc, but we use it just to play music and are not seeing that use case change in many years, notwithstanding all the jazzing up Sonos may have done to it.
Seems it may be time for a Sonos employee to directly comment on this thread again, and specifically attempt to answer some of the legitimate questions posed. Wade through some of the empty complaints and there's merit among this madness for their representation and clarification.

Honestly, what are they going to say that will alleviate the complaints? Anything they say will just be fuel to the fire.
Userlevel 7
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The thing is that automatic updates does not work for those of us that use the desktop controller.


Understood. I wasn't trying to imply that Sonos auto firmware updates made updates carefree across all platforms, just that it's a sign they are aware that upgrades are annoying to some users.


I don't know how well it works for androids too, going by my experience - I do not see that my phone app has automatically renewed itself even with the phone set to do this automatically for apps, which it does for others. Maybe there is another thing to toggle just for Sonos that I have missed, but this isn't a big deal for me, stuck as I anyway am with having to manually update the computer controller every time.


I've had no issues with Sonos automatic updates.


And of course, automatic in all cases only works for those that have the network quality and set up to be where Sonos needs it to be. I have no idea what that is as a percent of users.


Yea, that can be annoying if your phone does updates over a mobile network, but your home has weak or no internet access. Again, I'm not claiming that it's not frustrating to some customers.


On the process discipline, let us agree to disagree; I am not seeing it to the extent I would like to, but that may be just me, I agree.


Eh, I'm not really claiming Sonos does have good process discipline as am that there isn't enough information to claim one way or the other really. It's hard to gauge the consequences of waiting to put in a new feature, security patch, bug fix, etc.


Finally, for some of us, this is just a music system; it is all very well to say that it is software etc etc, but we use it just to play music and are not seeing that use case change in many years, notwithstanding all the jazzing up Sonos may have done to it.


Sure, and I'd happy to see Sonos make changes to make updates easier to delay and/or less painful for you all somehow. I don't know exactly what that looks like.

And FYI, if I could speculate on another reason why updates are coming more frequently, Sonos used to be a much more closed system. With involved in android and iOS systems, and voice control, they are forced to react to changes made to those systems as well as their own. Again, not necessarily a concern of every customer, but something that factors into to the update decisions.
Userlevel 2
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You said there is zero reason for the update frequency. Isn't that the same as their being no value in the updates?


No, it most definitely is not the same. Emphasis on the word, "frequency."

Vaccines are important for kids. If a child needs 50 shots to be fully vaccinated by the time they're 12, should we give them 1 at a time? Of course not - we group them together to make it easier on the child. If I make the claim that "giving 50 shots one at a time is ridiculous and unnecessary," it is not the same thing as saying that the shots are useless. It's the frequency that matters, not the content that's being administered.

As I said REPEATEDLY before (but for some reason, people seem to fail to understand), there's nothing wrong with updates, but doling them out more than a few times per year is unnecessary for an app that plays music, and does nothing else.
Badge +5
Regardless of what response it might incite, the information provided could at least be stamped official. That has to count for something, no? If nothing else, we can all likely agree on the fact silence from Sonos on the issue could do more potential damage than actually addressing the concern(s) presented. My experience is Sonos does a great job of the latter, but I'm aware that isn't all users' opinion.

Was more an attempt to pull this thread back into a constructive roadmap, as it was taking a hard left turn into... well, nowhere pleasant.

Seems it may be time for a Sonos employee to directly comment on this thread again, and specifically attempt to answer some of the legitimate questions posed. Wade through some of the empty complaints and there's merit among this madness for their representation and clarification.

Honestly, what are they going to say that will alleviate the complaints? Anything they say will just be fuel to the fire.
Regardless of what response it might incite, the information provided could at least be stamped official. That has to count for something, no? If nothing else, we can all likely agree on the fact silence from Sonos on the issue could do more potential damage than actually addressing the concern(s) presented. My experience is Sonos does a great job of the latter, but I'm aware that isn't all users' opinion.

Was more an attempt to pull this thread back into a constructive roadmap, as it was taking a hard left turn into... well, nowhere pleasant.


Got news for you, these types of threads always go nowhere pleasant. Sonos commenting only feeds that. Better to let it run its course until the next update triggers the next dozen or so posters who find fault.
Userlevel 7
Badge +21


Vaccines are important for kids. If a child needs 50 shots to be fully vaccinated by the time they're 12, should we give them 1 at a time? Of course not - we group them together to make it easier on the child. If I make the claim that "giving 50 shots one at a time is ridiculous and unnecessary," it is not the same thing as saying that the shots are useless. It's the frequency that matters, not the content that's being administered.


Vaccines are given together, yes, but also as a matter of availability. Yes, you get as many shots at one time as you can, but as new diseases arise, you get the new vaccine irregardless of the last time you had a vaccine. This happens every year with the flu vaccine. People get them in the fall because that's when they become available and that's when they are needed. As new flu strands are considered to be active, the flu vaccine is updated, and you can get the vaccine again if you wish.

It really isn't that great of analogy, as there are plenty of differences between patches and vaccine. I don't think it supports your argument anyway since vaccines aren't spaced out for the convenience of the patient, they are made available as soon as possible.


As I said REPEATEDLY before (but for some reason, people seem to fail to understand), there's nothing wrong with updates, but doling them out more than a few times per year is unnecessary for an app that plays music, and does nothing else.


I understand that you think the frequency of the updates is unnecessary. I understand that they are frustrating and don't have any outward value to you. I just don't agree that the frequency doesn't serve any purpose for all or most of Sonos customers...at least not without looking more closely at what's in the updates and why they are released now as opposed to later.
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Got news for you, these types of threads always go nowhere pleasant. Sonos commenting only feeds that. Better to let it run its course until the next update triggers the next dozen or so posters who find fault.


OK, fair enough. Cheers!
Userlevel 2
Badge +1
[quote=melvimbe]
It really isn't that great of analogy, as there are plenty of differences between patches and vaccine. I don't think it supports your argument anyway since vaccines aren't spaced out for the convenience of the patient, they are made available as soon as possible.


Vaccines are not given "as soon as they are available." They are grouped together primarily for the convenience of the patient (or parent).

"Combination vaccines reduce the number of shots your child needs while protecting against several serious diseases." (from www.cdc.gov)

DPT, MMR, etc are good examples. It's done to minimize the number of injections. Newer combos include Pediarix (DTaP, Polio, and Hep 😎, ProQuad (MMR and Chickenpox), Pentacel (DTaP, Polio, Hib,) etc.

Group the updates together so there is more per update, with fewer updates. It's that simple. Fine, if there is some Earth-saving critical patch that will rescue mankind from demise via a glitch in Sonos software, I would welcome that patch and all of the annoyance that comes with it, since humanity is at risk. Since I doubt there are too many potential fatalities from Sonos systems going off the rails, I'm going go ahead with my assertion that Sonos could dial down the volume a bit on their updates and we'd all be just fine.
Userlevel 7
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This thread is still going? And now it's somehow about vaccination? Exceptional.

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