What does the future hold

  • 3 December 2019
  • 37 replies
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N
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Without wishing to go over old ground as I am sure this will have been discussed before, I have grave concerns about the longevity of my system components.

Like many of you I bought into the Sonos experience back in 2008 and invested a few thousand pounds to get up and running. Over the years I have added other components to enhance the experience. Back in those early days and over the next few years I have to say that the whole experience of Sonos was fantastic. The build quality of the components being right up there with Apple.

A few years ago the CR100 dedicated controller was rendered obsolete; a few months ago my iPad was rendered obsolete as a Sonos controller; I am informed that my iMac desktop has less than a year to go as a controller because it cannot support many more updates. I have received an email today telling me that my bridge is no longer able to support the demands of my system and I guess, like many of you the emails have been coming in thick and fast about “trade ups”.

All of this tells me that the older and original components are not far from the end of their shelf lives. Perhaps I am naive but this steady progression towards obsolescence leaves me feeling quite bitter to the point where I will not invest another penny with this company.

The big question is; do I offload my existing components while they still have a value or do I just sit tight and hope that I get a few more years before the entire system is defunct.

Any thoughts, comments, opinions would be appreciated.

Seasons greetings to all.

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37 replies

G

I feel the same way as Nifty50 here! It’s not that Sonos hasn’t come out with an amazing suite of devices and continues to keep pace with the market (we are all avid Sonos customers here, obviously) BUT I should NOT have to become proficient at programming IP addresses and god knows what else in my router, or constantly refresh my wifi settings etc etc just to listen to Bach in two rooms at once. One thing for damn sure: I’m not buying into any other “smart” devices for my home.

N
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10 years ago, my house was filled with Sonos. I sold it all because my listening habits were changing and the system felt stale and dated.

 

What do you do today that you couldn’t do 10 years ago? I do exactly the same today as I did 10 years ago but without the ability to control the system as easily as I used to; that surely is a regressive step?

RBM
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10 years ago, my house was filled with Sonos. I sold it all because my listening habits were changing and the system felt stale and dated.

Last month I bought a beam. Things escalated quickly from there:

 

I would not have re-entered the fold if the system had not made major leaps in usability over the last few years. New services offer new functionality that cannot be covered in the Sonos app. Take Idagio, which offers excellent UI to classical – and Sonos direct control for output. Basically – for me Sonos is the great consolidator all digital sources: throw a stream at it and it sticks.

I commend the company for staying relevant in these rapidly changing, service-oriented times while still for the largest part supporting their modus operandi of yore.

Living: Five (Pair) & Sub (Gen3) – Bed: Move – Office: One SL (Pair) – Kid: Symfonisk Lamp – Control: iPort xPRESS (Kitchen) + Symfonisk Music Remotes (six and counting... ;-))
N
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glkay

Look up in your router’s manual how to set reserved IP adresses, and do so for all your Sonos devices. That should solve your issue.  

 

Forgive me but isn’t all this BS?

Not what is being said but the fact that people should have to go to any trouble in order to listen to or operate Sonos. 

Why oh why shouldn’t it be like buying a TV; open the box, install, set up and watch with the only interaction being to change channels. What else is there to do with Sonos; please tell me! I either listen to the radio or to music that has been stored by me. Sonos could deal with this 10 years ago and I see no reason why it shouldn’t be able to deal with it for ever. 

Would someone please explain how any single update in the last 10 years has been to my benefit?

As I see it the updates thus far have only managed to render my two CR100 controllers useless and make my iPad ineffectual. 

Airgetlam

No battle, it’s exactly the same thing. The DHCP table stores the reserved IP addresses.

SonosNet is still a wireless communication channel, and is subject to the same interference as your Wi-Fi channels. It’s why they say that the SonosNet channel should not be the same as your Wi-Fi, and if your router has auto selection, you should turn it off, so the two signals don’t clash. 

Bruce
G

Thanks, Bruce (Airgetlam)

Look up in your router’s manual how to set reserved IP adresses, and do so for all your Sonos devices. That should solve your issue.  

Have gotten that advice before, only to find the manual shows a DHCP Reservations page, but the firmware doesn’t. Classic, eh? Who has time for these battles?

Griping aside, a real question ( sorry if this is too off-topic for this thread): why doesn’t the Sonos Boost, which is a wired connection and has it’s own channel to the devices, solve the issue?

Airgetlam

glkay

Look up in your router’s manual how to set reserved IP adresses, and do so for all your Sonos devices. That should solve your issue.  

Bruce
N
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I am also furious that my not-so-old iPad can no longer support the Sonos app - but that appears to be Apple planned obsolescence. And I’ve complained a thousand times that with each Sonos software update the system forgets most of my speakers. Sometimes I just go back to my CD player and turntable! I’m relatively tech savvy, though much of this thread went over my head; I just want my investment in this system to have long-term support and keep the product suite functioning without constant crashes. Is that too much to ask this far into the 21st century?

Oh, how fantastic that someone else feels as I do. I had to laugh when you said you sometimes go back to your CD and turntable because I also sometimes just switch on my transistor radio.

 

G

I am also furious that my not-so-old iPad can no longer support the Sonos app - but that appears to be Apple planned obsolescence. And I’ve complained a thousand times that with each Sonos software update the system forgets most of my speakers. Sometimes I just go back to my CD player and turntable! I’m relatively tech savvy, though much of this thread went over my head; I just want my investment in this system to have long-term support and keep the product suite functioning without constant crashes. Is that too much to ask this far into the 21st century?

N
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Thanks for your replies chaps.

I am somewhat encouraged and do now believe that the problem is probably with me! I am of the old school where everything in my house is as mint as the day it was bought and I expect it to last forever; but clearly need to get my head around this. 

In so far as hitting the hard button the speaker is concerned, this is a problem for me because my entire house was hardwired in 2008 with in ceiling and in wall speakers controlled by ZP120 amps. I do agree that for people with only freestanding speakers control is much more convenient. When I loosely talked about disposing of all my equipment it was in fact the amps that I had in mind. The Play ones, threes and fives of which I have a few are quite remarkable and had they been available back in 2008 I would have never purchased an Amp.

 

 

F
Userlevel 7
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I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?

 

No, those users froze their system at the previous version, some going so far as to blacklist the Sonos update sites in their router’s firewall.  

Aah, that would imply they knew what they were doing; guess I am even less tech savvy than I thought. To be candid, the reason I feel quite bitter about the relatively rapid obsolescence of my equipment is because I simply bought into a fabulous system and experience at not insignificant cost, and am finding that it is all slowly be taken from me due to constant updates that I have no control over. People have commented on the CR100’s but no one seems bothered that my early iPad has already become useless and my desktop is soon destined to become useless for controlling Sonos.

How do all the people on here control their systems? Say for example a forgotten alarm setting starts playing music at 3.00am in the morning in your bedroom; how do you turn it off? I used to lean over and hit the CR 100 controller; now I have to have an iPad in the bedroom, pinging emails all night! I have to open it, load the Sonos app and then switch off the music; it is totally unacceptable. I even tried purchasing a Sonos one with Alexa but that was more than useless and Sonos admitted that it was unable to link zones or do very much at all that it was also returned for reimbursement. 

I have had read Danny’s response and I am in partial agreement.

The iPad obsolescence is in someway a casualty of technology rather than by design from Sonos. As Danny says all things that are technology based become redundant at some point. If Apple stop supporting it then it becomes very hard for third parties to add new functionality whilst retaining support for legacy third party devices. Sometimes the timing sucks.

However the CR100 was an internal product, an ability to freeze versions easily would have prevented what was quite a contentious issue. I understand that the CR100 may be unable to cope with new functions, and its existence in the system also hold back new functions. However this really was a cost based decision. It was not impossible for Sonos to continue supporting via a frozen version. However this would have had a longer term cost for Sonos in terms of development. Plus it also removed the risk of battery issues as fewer devices are now in use. They still manufactured the device, they are still liable for its design, so if something bad happens they are still on the hook for it if a court decide the design was at fault rather than a random failure. Risk to Sonos is pretty small IMHO.

So the iPad is just a technology thing, the CR100 was a cost of support thing.

However they had a good run technology wise, and the fact I can still get updates, and add new services, for a 15+ year old tech device is testament to the value product Sonos delivered.

But as a regular CR100 user I also saw the frustration it would cause with its removal for the scenarios you describe. Such as alarms. I have no iPads. phones, computers in the bedroom. The CR100 is as technical as it gets in my bedroom. 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
melvimbe

Aah, that would imply they knew what they were doing; guess I am even less tech savvy than I thought. To be candid, the reason I feel quite bitter about the relatively rapid obsolescence of my equipment is because I simply bought into a fabulous system and experience at not insignificant cost, and am finding that it is all slowly be taken from me due to constant updates that I have no control over.

 

 

For me,I find my system is improving over time.  I certainly don’t take advantage of every new feature that Sonos puts out, but quite a bit of them are useful to me.   

 

 

People have commented on the CR100’s but no one seems bothered that my early iPad has already become useless and my desktop is soon destined to become useless for controlling Sonos.

 

 

The first computer I ever owned was an Apple IIe.  Obviously, it had a limited life.  I’ve had/used dozens of computers since then.  I have absolutely zero expectation that any computer I get is going to be with me for a decade or more.  The same goes for anything else that is ‘computer-like’.  They have limited life.  They aren’t going to be like a hammer that will last forever, or even a passive speaker that can last for decades.  I just don;t think that way, and it appears that the way I look at it fits the way technology is moving these days.

 

I get that others don’t think that way, and want to keep and use their products for a much longer time.   Long after the manufacturer stop making them and has dropped all support.  This may sound harsh, but it’s hard for me to be too bothered that someone isn’t able to keep using a product that, in my mind, as already well served it’s useful life.   I see what use it has now as bonus usefulness more than an expected usefulness.  My old units that have been around for 10 years….they feel like they are free to me now.  It’s like getting free dessert at your favorite restaurant.

 

How do all the people on here control their systems? Say for example a forgotten alarm setting starts playing music at 3.00am in the morning in your bedroom; how do you turn it off?

 

 

I either turn it off with voice control or use the hard button on the speaker itself.  Never for turning off audio, but I will pull out my phone on rare actions for different controls.  I replace my phone about every 2 years or so, so I’ve never come close to being unsupported.

 

 

I used to lean over and hit the CR 100 controller; now I have to have an iPad in the bedroom, pinging emails all night! I have to open it, load the Sonos app and then switch off the music; it is totally unacceptable. I even tried purchasing a Sonos one with Alexa but that was more than useless and Sonos admitted that it was unable to link zones or do very much at all that it was also returned for reimbursement. 

 

Functionality has improved for this, as you can setup alexa groups to initiate and stop playback for a group of rooms.  You can use any alexa enabled device to do this, probably even your early iPad.  Of course, your iPad won’t be as easy to use as a Sonos One or echo.

Danny
F
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Since we locked down to keep the CR100s …. (This may change as daughter wants a music streaming service so may have to unlock yet).

 

Dave,

FYI Napster still works fine on 8.4 and can be controlled with the CR100…..

Also I recently added Google play music. Whilst it appears as a source on the CR100, it throws an error when you try to access it. However it works fine through the Sonos app or desktop controller.

Cheers

 

Cheers John,

In the Spotify free app I could see my Sonos controllers under the devices tab but marked as premium only, and the SkyQ boxes as available. I have started a trial on Spotify Premium prior to committing to the full family plan, and giving Spotify for Christmas (Alice if you are reading sorry for ruining the surprise). And can set things to play on Sonos in the Spotify App, listening now. Now I certainly had the two connected when it first came out but personally wasn’t bothered at the time so no idea if I could link a new account without a Sonos App.

I can’t search music on Spotify via Sonophone/CR100 and looking under Services it just says Spotify 4. But once a playlist is running I can pause/play/skip on both Sonophone/CR100.

Or use the Spotify app to control all including the volume. Grouping zones seems to want to call the Sonos App. But can link in SonoPhone and then play via Spotify. Can also play from App on Mac (and if it did Radio would be a fix all solution).

Spotify would be cool for us as the car includes Spotify, and whilst it does have a premium account belonging to Tesla you can use your own and have all the playlists carried over. And if paying for one then might as well as pay for family and have 6 connections (younger sister etc)

So looks like for the time being I can retain the status quo and deliver banging Christmas presents (and surely I can gift Spotify every Christmas going forward).

Hope all good with you, and CR100s are still holding up. 

Dave

 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
N
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?

 

No, those users froze their system at the previous version, some going so far as to blacklist the Sonos update sites in their router’s firewall.  

Aah, that would imply they knew what they were doing; guess I am even less tech savvy than I thought. To be candid, the reason I feel quite bitter about the relatively rapid obsolescence of my equipment is because I simply bought into a fabulous system and experience at not insignificant cost, and am finding that it is all slowly be taken from me due to constant updates that I have no control over. People have commented on the CR100’s but no one seems bothered that my early iPad has already become useless and my desktop is soon destined to become useless for controlling Sonos.

How do all the people on here control their systems? Say for example a forgotten alarm setting starts playing music at 3.00am in the morning in your bedroom; how do you turn it off? I used to lean over and hit the CR 100 controller; now I have to have an iPad in the bedroom, pinging emails all night! I have to open it, load the Sonos app and then switch off the music; it is totally unacceptable. I even tried purchasing a Sonos one with Alexa but that was more than useless and Sonos admitted that it was unable to link zones or do very much at all that it was also returned for reimbursement. 

melvimbe

I think the higher end sound quality is just too small for the big boys to go after 1st round but we have seen improvements in Amazon devices and they are starting to look at higher quality devices. That said I am not certain the Amp/ZonePlayer market may ever really feature i their line-up as the markets are just too small.

 

 

Amazon did go into the Amp/zoneplayer market last year with the Echo Link and Echo Link Amp. Two products I thought were interesting, but have heard almost nothing about it since.  And Amazon came out with Echo Studio this year.  Feels like they are dropping their toes in the water a bit but not quite sure where they want to go here.    I don’t think they can really be serious about high end sound though until they have a soundbar or something resembling a home theatre setup.  But I imagine that will make several partners unhappy, and right now, Amazon has no way of playing non-streaming sources on their speakers  in multiroom audio.

 

I get what you’re saying regarding the smaller market, but there seem to be several companies that are doing just fine living in the space.  And Amazon/Google are less interested in making profits from product sales as they are in controlling the ecosystems.  It might be because they don’t need to be in higher end audio to control the ecosystems.

 

Not really disagreeing with your points, just adding to the conversation.

 

I wonder if we will see a much larger ‘whole house piped music market’ sub Sonos standard but good enough and a return to dedicated systems for the enthusiasts. Sonos crossed the line to enthusiasts enough that only the enthusiastic enthusiasts could be bothered not to have the integration. I am less fussed about music than movies, so Sonos Amp stuff is more than good enough for music. But the Playbar relegated to kids playroom and dedicated home cinema still rules the lounge. But in order of price magnitude it is probably 5 times the price of playbar/sub/play1 set-up. Music in the lounge is slightly cumbersome as you have to go and turn the amp on, and change the input, whereas a playbar would be slicker. But it just doesn’t do the SPL of big speakers & big subs.

 

 

I tend to think the open concept architecture of modern homes doesn’t lend itself as well to the dedicated systems.    And of course, ease of use is going to continue to be a driving factor for sometime now.  I think we will see (I hope anyway) the gap between ease of use and high performing since diminish in time, but there isn’t the market for it right now, as you pointed out earlier.  There’s a reason why Sonos came out with the Beam and not a massive new home theatre setup.

 

I’m not sure if people really get the value of whole home audio systems yet.  Some do for sure, but most don’t think about buying a system as much as buying speakers for a room.    In a lot of ways, voice assistance are giving people a taste of what you can do  after buying a couple echos/mini’s.  Then they’ll upgrade from there. 

 

 

And the home integration stuff is growing fast. OK we may be ahead of the curve but we have something like 150+ IP connected devices at home ran across 4 VLANs everything from windows, heating, doorbells, cameras, PV systems, the car, TVs etc. Your average joe is going to need an ecosystem to handle this for them. They can’t be expected to put in place VLANs, to manage security but just like home routers have added guest networks (effectively a VLAN) they will need a ‘things LAN’.

 

 

The smart market is crazy right now.  So many players with tech changing so fast, all trying to integrate in a non-confusing way.  So much of it stuff that sounds useful on the surface, but not so much when in practice, or the tech isn’t good enough to really be useful yet.  

 

I suspect there are at some point going to be some expensive losers in this game both for consumers with redundant systems and for corporates who lose the battle for the ecosystem.

 

Yes, definitely agree on both points.  

Danny
F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?

The TLDR is: No.

The longer answer is only if you are running version 8.4 and locked yourself down so the controllers, players, and apps didn’t upgrade. Stopping the apps upgrading was the hardest as would require turning off the automatic app upgrades on iPhones (and not having a new phone either). But switching to Sonophone (an alternative Sonos app) and using CR100s avoided this. So we don’t have anything with a Sonos App. The upgrade path is blocked at the firewall, and everything remains on version 8.4.

Sonos have never allowed downgrading of versions on units so for completeness you can’t reverse.

The downside is we don’t have any new features since version 8.4 and in theory we could loose TuneIn or other streaming service if they instigate a change at the service end (TuneIn/Spotify etc). So far TuneIn and Amazon Prime Music is still operational.

One of the other posters may give you chapter and verse on the massive list of benefits that I have missed out from the latest updates. But I can upgrade if I want to.

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
jgatie

I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?

 

No, those users froze their system at the previous version, some going so far as to blacklist the Sonos update sites in their router’s firewall.  

N
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

I am clearly not as ‘techy’ as the other contributors on here and a lot of what has been said has gone over my head. However, I have picked up from a couple of threads that people are still using their CR100 controllers: is this the case because mine both became obsolete upon the installation of an update some time ago. Is there any way they can be ‘undone’ for want of a better explanation?

J
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Since we locked down to keep the CR100s …. (This may change as daughter wants a music streaming service so may have to unlock yet).

 

Dave,

FYI Napster still works fine on 8.4 and can be controlled with the CR100…..

Also I recently added Google play music. Whilst it appears as a source on the CR100, it throws an error when you try to access it. However it works fine through the Sonos app or desktop controller.

Cheers

 

 

F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Danny,

I’m going to say I agree with pretty much everything you put. And any minor quibbles are probably more nuances than a difference in opinion.

For instance I’m aware that the dislikes of app features are more heavily voiced than the likes or passives. My thoughts are we have had numerous changes of the apps over the years, a number that seemed to offer little benefit than a new GUI to learn. But the functionality differences between desktop apps and phone/tablet apps just seems there to confuse people. You know what you want to do, you know it does it, but you can’t find it. Then eventually realise it won’t do it in the desktop version, or on the controller, or its done differently in the app. Other than Dev cost there is rarely a reason why the Desktop can’t do all the things the App can (TruePlay, the EQ thing, being a rare exception). Simple and consistent is good.

Since we locked down to keep the CR100s I have zero internal support cases from wife/kids as they know how it all works, and it hasn’t changed. It’s primary function play music, is met. (This may change as daughter wants a music streaming service so may have to unlock yet). And it's still the best tech product I have had. 15-years+ and stuff still in use daily. We use the alarms a fair bit to set stuff running, so daily does mean daily.

 

I think the higher end sound quality is just too small for the big boys to go after 1st round but we have seen improvements in Amazon devices and they are starting to look at higher quality devices. That said I am not certain the Amp/ZonePlayer market may ever really feature i their line-up as the markets are just too small.

I wonder if we will see a much larger ‘whole house piped music market’ sub Sonos standard but good enough and a return to dedicated systems for the enthusiasts. Sonos crossed the line to enthusiasts enough that only the enthusiastic enthusiasts could be bothered not to have the integration. I am less fussed about music than movies, so Sonos Amp stuff is more than good enough for music. But the Playbar relegated to kids playroom and dedicated home cinema still rules the lounge. But in order of price magnitude it is probably 5 times the price of playbar/sub/play1 set-up. Music in the lounge is slightly cumbersome as you have to go and turn the amp on, and change the input, whereas a playbar would be slicker. But it just doesn’t do the SPL of big speakers & big subs.

 

And the home integration stuff is growing fast. OK we may be ahead of the curve but we have something like 150+ IP connected devices at home ran across 4 VLANs everything from windows, heating, doorbells, cameras, PV systems, the car, TVs etc. Your average joe is going to need an ecosystem to handle this for them. They can’t be expected to put in place VLANs, to manage security but just like home routers have added guest networks (effectively a VLAN) they will need a ‘things LAN’.

I suspect there are at some point going to be some expensive losers in this game both for consumers with redundant systems and for corporates who lose the battle for the ecosystem.

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

I agree that for many ‘squeezebox’ is a lost cause, probably because its versatility at so many levels is so overlooked. 

  

 

Or because the brand doesn't actually exist anymore, because it ceased selling products many years ago?

Could be that also.   A massive fail by Logitech management which started with the ‘new’ so-called ‘smart’ UE radio.

Fortunately, the radio itself could easily be repurposed as the original Logitech radio and can still be found on e-bay at reasonable prices.

Meanwhile the players continue on in various guises based on the almost ubiquitous Raspberry Pi (many with the addition of various DACs).   Or, you can even use various Sonos devices …. !

jgatie

I agree that for many ‘squeezebox’ is a lost cause, probably because its versatility at so many levels is so overlooked. 

  

 

Or because the brand doesn't actually exist anymore, because it ceased selling products many years ago?

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

I agree that for many ‘squeezebox’ is a lost cause, probably because its versatility at so many levels is so overlooked. 

  

melvimbe

It’s now possible to use Echo devices as Logitech Media Server speakers - the same Echos have voice control with a very extensive list of commands (95 intents versus the rather restricted set offered via Sonos).  The Shows also have metadata display.

The recent 50 euro offer on the Show 5 provides a rather neat speaker/display which integrates nicely into the LMS ecosystem.

Sonos hsve a way to go.   I don’t think a speaker lamp for over 150 euros is such a bargain in comparison.   

 

Squeezebox?  I don’t see how that has much impact on the competition that echo speakers offer to Sonos.  I’m not saying echos aren’t competition, they absolutely are. Just that LMS isn’t likely to move the needle that much.

Danny
C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

It’s now possible to use Echo devices as Logitech Media Server speakers - the same Echos have voice control with a very extensive list of commands (95 intents versus the rather restricted set offered via Sonos).  The Shows also have metadata display.

The recent 50 euro offer on the Show 5 provides a rather neat speaker/display which integrates nicely into the LMS ecosystem.

Sonos hsve a way to go.   I don’t think a speaker lamp for over 150 euros is such a bargain in comparison.   

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