The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

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chickentender

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

…..

 

 

Great thread, Kumar. Needed.

You and I and many are in this same boat and your thoughts and conclusions mirror my own over the past 2 days. I intend to leave my “legacy” system in place as well. I’ve been looking into a number of options that will feed the line-in of a now-legacy Connect to provide future operability, albeit a bit kludgy with two apps being required for many operations, but c'est la vie.  I’ve been examining most closely the Bluesound NODE 2i and the Ayrlic S50 Pro as options for such a streaming service gateway, which would as well provide other modern tech enhancements and connection options, most of which are strangely absent from the new Port (which is out of the question anyhow since this device will need to be autonomous and silo’d away my legacy Sonosnet). I’ve also been considering moving to the Tidal service for streaming (though a part of me abhors that idea) only because it’s natively supported within PLEX which I use extensively.

There is a path forward, not an ideal one, but a liveable one.

We do have options.

jgatie

Thanks for the helpful post. I have 8 Connect:Amps for whole house audio. Does anyone know (@Ryan S) if Sonos has or will commit to maintaining basic functionality as long as the hardware is operational? More specifically, the ability to connect a cheap audio streamer to the line input, and play that input *with the ability to group zones*.  (I’ve only used line input on a single zone so I don’t even know if grouping is a current function using the line input as audio source)

Sonos would not have to ensure that 3rd parties software is compatible. All they have to do is make sure is future versions of the Sonos interfaces (iPhone, Android) still communicate with the device and maintain this functionality. I don’t want an app update on my iPhone bricking the Connect:Amps.

Furthermore, if the hardware dies, the ability to replace with a modern sonos AMP and maintain the above functionality (would a new device require a firmware downgrade?) I don’t need bells and whistles or voice etc, I just need to be able to internet stream to multiple zones. I could maybe handle swapping out my connect:amps with the newer amps if the hardware dies slowly one by one over the course of 5-10 years. But the financial and environmental cost of doing that all at once not an option, especially if the hardware is perfectly functional.

 

If you stay on legacy software, are not using outside music sources, and only streaming from your local library or a Line-in, your system should work just as it does today until the hardware fails.

L
Userlevel 2

Thanks for the helpful post. I have 8 Connect:Amps for whole house audio. Does anyone know (@Ryan S) if Sonos has or will commit to maintaining basic functionality as long as the hardware is operational? More specifically, the ability to connect a cheap audio streamer to the line input, and play that input *with the ability to group zones*.  (I’ve only used line input on a single zone so I don’t even know if grouping is a current function using the line input as audio source)

Sonos would not have to ensure that 3rd parties software is compatible. All they have to do is make sure is future versions of the Sonos interfaces (iPhone, Android) still communicate with the device and maintain this functionality. I don’t want an app update on my iPhone bricking the Connect:Amps.

Furthermore, if the hardware dies, the ability to replace with a modern sonos AMP and maintain the above functionality (would a new device require a firmware downgrade?) I don’t need bells and whistles or voice etc, I just need to be able to internet stream to multiple zones. I could maybe handle swapping out my connect:amps with the newer amps if the hardware dies slowly one by one over the course of 5-10 years. But the financial and environmental cost of doing that all at once not an option, especially if the hardware is perfectly functional.

S
Userlevel 3

My current plan is to run as legacy for as long as possible and then use the line to one of my play 5’s for any music over the internet when services start to fail.

I haven't tried but I am assuming/hoping I can just group the line in player with other units and play as I would normally.

Options are either amazon or google,  as I have an echo dot in a hallway I will probably stick that in a play 5 for now and see what I think to quality.

I do have some concerns given the cynicism of the current sonos position.  For instance will you be able to add to a legacy system or if your everything falls over altogether will you be able to create a legacy system from scratch. 

N
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

I have a question that I cannot see answered, or if it has been, I’ve missed it (entirely possible).

 

Some time ago on my “legacy” system I lost the ability to stream from my iPhone directly to my system. I the future legacy landscape that is promised, if I add in a new product in ‘legacy’ mode, will I be able to stream with Airplay to the grouped speakers or not?

 

Great thread by the way, best I’ve seen yet. :)

 

Cheers

Simon

Hey Simon, consider that  in the future Apple could roll out an Airplay 2 update to your Apple devices that could impact your ability to use them with your airplay2 compatible Sonos devices in legacy mode. 

pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

I will freeze my Sonos installations in May, to permit my complete Sonos systems to continue to operate as one, per one of the key original selling points of the Sonos system (‘whole house music’). I’ll keep these systems running, even if I eventually have to use AirPlay and/or Line-In for everything, as streaming services become incompatible with the Sonos firmware.

I will make no further Sonos purchases. Whole house audio systems are not a throwaway purchase.

A minor point, but I don’t want to have to switch off iOS automatic updates for all of the 100+ apps on my iOS devices, just to prevent the Sonos app from updating. Sonos needs to provide a legacy iOS app, separate to the one which is acquiring new features.

Frankly, though, if Sonos is losing customers like me, they’re in really deep trouble.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
Airgetlam

Yes, to that device. To get the AirPlay 2 stream to play on other devices, you would indeed ‘group’ them. 

I do this rather frequently ;) 

Bruce
M

Agh cool, I din’t know for sure that popping a more modern device in amongst my system would allow Airplay or not. Presuming the speakers all need to be grouped for this to work?

 

Cheers

Simon

jgatie

I have a question that I cannot see answered, or if it has been, I’ve missed it (entirely possible).

 

Some time ago on my “legacy” system I lost the ability to stream from my iPhone directly to my system. I the future legacy landscape that is promised, if I add in a new product in ‘legacy’ mode, will I be able to stream with Airplay to the grouped speakers or not?

 

Great thread by the way, best I’ve seen yet. :)

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Since you can do this now, and the current functionality is what will become “legacy” in the future, I can’t see why not. 

M

I have a question that I cannot see answered, or if it has been, I’ve missed it (entirely possible).

 

Some time ago on my “legacy” system I lost the ability to stream from my iPhone directly to my system. I the future legacy landscape that is promised, if I add in a new product in ‘legacy’ mode, will I be able to stream with Airplay to the grouped speakers or not?

 

Great thread by the way, best I’ve seen yet. :)

 

Cheers

Simon

N
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

I’m going DigiOne Allo.  It’s a raspberry pi server.  Will have a large upfront cost for the software side to run things, but I gain non-proprietary and high res playback.  So I do win something out of it.

What software are you buying for your RPi server?

K

@RickInHouston1 :Good for you. In my case, just the sight of a unit with an exposed circuit board makes me nervous - I am no techie:-)

@spydrwebb : happy to help. Beyond a point, ranting serves no one.

spydrwebb
Badge +7

Kumar, this is the best thread yet since the announcements. Thanks for stepping out, brother. 

Respect.

Beam, Sub, 2 x P:1 -- 5.1 (video) / 2 x P:3 (music) / 2 x gen1 One (music) ----> ever evolving setup, as they say...
R
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

I’m going DigiOne Allo.  It’s a raspberry pi server.  Will have a large upfront cost for the software side to run things, but I gain non-proprietary and high res playback.  So I do win something out of it.

I think I was the first person to buy a Sonos. At least I feel like it.
K

 

So in short, I’m not going to ditch Sonos entirely, in fact, I’m not really leaving at all. But I’m very much going to insulate myself from any future foul-ups, or indeed an entire implosion at Sonos (if by some miracle what’s going on right now doesn’t turn out to be a “Gerald Ratner”).

Neither am I; I can't afford to leave Sonos en masse. But I refuse to have to do this hoopla ever again because of Sonos or any other smart speaker maker. So, I will also have my migration plan to cheap throw away smart front ends, as Sonos hardware dies, wherever I need the smarts. Since I have the 3 legacy zones all blessed with line in jacks, I don’t even expect the kind of hiccups in streaming that you alluded to; even today these units have Echo Dots/Show wired to them that will work regardless of any Sonos issues in future.

What I do not want - and I can’t really see it happening - is a Sonos implosion that destroys these migration strategies.

R
Userlevel 3
Badge

I have concerns about “they’re just music boxes and will continue to do what they do now”. They’ll probably play from your NAS forever, and most Internet radio will probably be fine too. However, Spotify, Amazon, Deezer etc could, at any time, make a change which Sonos will not deliver to legacy systems (either because they don’t want to, or because the legacy devices can’t properly support it).

I also have problems with Sonos stance here - if a legacy device can’t actually stream (say) Spotify, then fair enough - but it should be possible to use it as a fully supported, updated and working “extra speaker” for another (modern) Sonos device. But that’s not being offered right now.

Whilst I think they should be offering that as a way out, it actually won’t help me on this occasion (although might do when my Play:1s go legacy in the future).

I have a legacy Connect:Amp is currently connected to 4 ceiling speakers in the kitchen. It works fine, but it’s not great at higher volumes and it lacks sub (ceiling speakers struggle to do sub, and mine aren’t the best in that area either).

My plan is currently:

  • Buy a Yamaha connected amp to replace the Connect:Amp. A similar spec device comes in at half the list price of the new Sonos Amp.
  • Eval Yamaha as a competitor (they seem to review about the same, although their phone app doesn’t review very well)
  • Probably use the trade-in to buy a Port, and use that as the sound source for the Yamaha amp (unless Yamaha turn out to be awesome).

This means:

  • We keep “sonos everywhere” and multi-room etc. Ultimately, nothing really changes.
  • I get to properly eval Yamaha, and they get time to support Amazon Music (which they say they’re working on).
  • If Sonos pull any more of this sort of stuff, then I can switch any other devices to Yamaha quite easily, yanking out any Sonos which is then legacy, and keep multi-room in the process.
  • Potentially stick a sub in the kitchen using the sub-out of the Yamaha amp (which incidentally, I could do with the new Sonos Amp too)

So in short, I’m not going to ditch Sonos entirely, in fact, I’m not really leaving at all. But I’m very much going to insulate myself from any future foul-ups, or indeed an entire implosion at Sonos (if by some miracle what’s going on right now doesn’t turn out to be a “Gerald Ratner”).

P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

Sonos maybe able to sell to legacy customers, by the user downloading software to the device at instalation, either current or legacy….maybe

K

The play 1 is still sold by Sonos and Ryan still states that Sonos will support products for at least 5 years after they stop selling them. So here's hoping they stick to that. 

 

It is no longer as simple as that, going by what happened with the Connect Amp - although this was sold by Sonos till 2019, they are pulling support on those made in 2015 and before that saying that these have a much smaller memory than the ones made after, so the earlier ones, though carrying the same name and looks, will no longer get support.

My concern is something similar happening for my 2014 make play 1 units with their relatively very small memory of 64 mb. And I don’t see the play 1 on the Sonos products listed on their website and I think they stopped selling those in 2019 as well. So if they do the same thing they did for my Connect Amp, there go my four play 1 units.

Hence the concern. Once bitten, twice shy.

J
Userlevel 5
Badge +9

After I wrote the first post I discovered that my remaining 3 zones served by play 1 units aren't going to remain modern for much longer, with the play 1 containing a mere 64 mb of memory, just marginally better than the 32 in the units jettisoned at this time. And as opposed to the 1024 mb contained in the One units, so the temptation for Sonos to use this idling hardware by jettisoning the play 1s shortly after May or in the next “news” cycle must be strong.

All the more reason then for me to successfully pursue the approach I have set out in this thread.

The play 1 is still sold by Sonos and Ryan still states that Sonos will support products for at least 5 years after they stop selling them. So here's hoping they stick to that. 

 

Cheers

K

After I wrote the first post I discovered that my remaining 3 zones served by play 1 units aren't going to remain modern for much longer, with the play 1 containing a mere 64 mb of memory, just marginally better than the 32 in the units jettisoned at this time. And as opposed to the 1024 mb contained in the One units, so the temptation for Sonos to use this idling hardware by jettisoning the play 1s shortly after May or in the next “news” cycle must be strong.

All the more reason then for me to successfully pursue the approach I have set out in this thread.

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