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SONOS speakers largely under-exploited.

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chicks

Yep, DSP allows convolution filters, WAY more granularity than those old outdated analog slider things. I’ve never used those silly EQ presets either - they do absolutely nothing about room nodes, which Trueplay and other room correction systems are all about. 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi All

Although I don’t remember the exact figure (I was told once and it’s not written down anywhere that I have access to), TruePlay is (among other things) a frequency band equaliser containing a lot more than 10 frequency band distinctions. It might be over 100. You wouldn’t want all those in an app, and we wouldn’t want to present them!

Personally, I’m not interested in any more than Treble, Bass and Loudness being there, and I have never liked the EQ presets on any system (Pop, Rock, Classic, Concert etc). Variable Loudness - which I once had on a Yamaha Hi-Fi - is nice though.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
melvimbe

There is nothing wrong with personally wanting a better EQ.

 

@melvimbe

The goal is not to have a better equalizer, but rather to have the BASIS which includes 3 slides: BASS, MID, HIGH. I think I've explained myself enough, I'm sick of repeating myself, I trust the Sonos team and I'm happy with the answer they gave me, I trust them for the next updates. Thank you

Hadn’t realized you downgraded your requested from 10 bands + to 3 bands.

Danny
T
Userlevel 1
Badge +5

There is nothing wrong with personally wanting a better EQ.

 

@melvimbe

The goal is not to have a better equalizer, but rather to have the BASIS which includes 3 slides: BASS, MID, HIGH. I think I've explained myself enough, I'm sick of repeating myself, I trust the Sonos team and I'm happy with the answer they gave me, I trust them for the next updates. Thank you
melvimbe

 

@Ken_Griffiths

Ken just because you can't find complaints doesn't mean that users wouldn't be happy to have this feature, most people who have Sonos sound systems aren't even aware of this forum and aren't. not even registered. Just because there aren't enough complaints to your liking doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered. I did a search on google and in 5 seconds I found complaints, it is not just a question of scrolling a page randomly, it is obvious that the majority of people do not have time to think about equalizing it because most of them do not even manage to have a good connection with the system.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/gzcdbv/no_improved_eq_in_s2/

 

Ken searched for the word ‘equalizer’ on the link you provided and found nothing.  He wasn’t looking on the Sonos forum.  Not sure how you managed to find complaints in 5 seconds, following your link, but either you just assumed they were there and didn’t confirm, searched for much longer than 5 seconds, or didn’t think anyone else would actually look.  

And for the record, if you search on the forums for ‘equalizer’, it’s not that hard to find people with the same request as you.  Whether that equates to a ‘pile of complaints’ compares to other feature requests…

And as far as the claim that people are too busy complaining about connections to be able to complain about the EQ...if that were the case, then Sonos would be a miserable failure of a company, long since out of business, rather than beating market revenue expectations.

There is nothing wrong with personally wanting a better EQ.  It’s just the attempt to make it bigger than you’re own want, as a severely lack in the product that millions of other users are clamoring for….there just isn’t evidence of that.

 

Danny
Xander P
Userlevel 6
Badge +15

Hi @Thewizard2000, thanks for raising this with the community!

While it’s not a particularly frequent request, further control via equalizer has been put forward as a feature request previously, and I can certainly understand that some users may want more granular control of the Sonos system.

(As an aside, part of the reason for jumping in late was indeed interest in where the conversation would go - rest assured we’ve noted your interest and have forwarded it to the development team :slight_smile: )

T
Userlevel 1
Badge +5

@melvimbe

Well the post unfortunately does not seem to lead to much unfortunately with low-end comments like @chicks .

 

@Ken_Griffiths

Ken just because you can't find complaints doesn't mean that users wouldn't be happy to have this feature, most people who have Sonos sound systems aren't even aware of this forum and aren't. not even registered. Just because there aren't enough complaints to your liking doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered. I did a search on google and in 5 seconds I found complaints, it is not just a question of scrolling a page randomly, it is obvious that the majority of people do not have time to think about equalizing it because most of them do not even manage to have a good connection with the system.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/gzcdbv/no_improved_eq_in_s2/

melvimbe 
Because obviously here it seems that we are talking into the void, just with this post now of 25 comments I have seen absolutely no official representative of SONOS interested in our discussion, it confirms what I said since the beginning of this post.

Sonos has surely seen this thread already, and I’m a little surprised no one has posted the standard message that they appreciate the suggestion and will pass it on.  Perhaps they want to see where this thread ends up, if others share your point of view on it before chiming in.

 

Danny
chicks 
I took a programming course, it's not complicated

I once played MS Flight Simulator.  Think I’ll go fly a real 747 - it’s not complicated. :rolling_eyes:

Ken_Griffiths

Not sure if it’s me, but I scrolled that user-review list/posts yesterday until I got fed up and then I searched all the posts on page for ‘Equalizer’ thinking that there might be some folk asking for that feature, but I couldn’t find a single post in the link provided🤔? I captured my search result of the scrolled pages (see attached). 

Most complaints there, seem to be more network related, but in fairness to the views expressed, there are many 4 & 5 star reviews from folk too who appear to love the App and their Sonos products.

It’s perhaps the old story of “…you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. 

Not one mention of ‘Equalizer’ however, perhaps that strongly ‘infers’ it’s not exactly a priority request from a majority of Sonos customers.

The very few calls I have seen around this topic, by users online, has been for EQ presets for different genres like Pop, Rock, Classical, Acoustic etc. In my own experience though when those presets are available most people seem to leave things switched off and just adjust their Bass and Treble.
So I guess that Sonos engineers may have much better things to do than create such features for such a tiny minority.

I’m sure Sonos may have the EQ development feature on a ‘to-do’ list somewhere, but as we all know they never (or very rarely) announce their intended development path anyway.

1 Attachment
K 
they should add us at least the slide to adjust the MID-RANGE. For me, this frequency breaks my ears, I hate it, I usually put it to a minimum and the sound is much more pleasant, it's my taste.

Are you suggesting that you cannot adjust the mid range on Sonos today via the two existing EQ sliders? What is it that you put to a minimum? And if, as you seem to say, that is to your taste, what is then the problem?

T
Userlevel 1
Badge +5 
@John B If the Development resource is finite then they should add us at least the slide to adjust the MID-RANGE. For me, this frequency breaks my ears, I hate it, I usually put it to a minimum and the sound is much more pleasant, it's my taste and for the health of my eardrums. I understand that the Development resource is limited, but with a market cap of 3.77 billion I believe they should get there with a little effort. I took a programming course, it's not complicated you copy the same line of code for the bass or treble slide and you just modify the ranges. Where we are going to send them a request? Because obviously here it seems that we are talking into the void, just with this post now of 25 comments I have seen absolutely no official representative of SONOS interested in our discussion, it confirms what I said since the beginning of this post.
J

@Thewizard2000 . Development resource is finite, and the list of possible enhancements almost endless.  If Sonos believed that adding this feature would be the best use of resource - in terms of long term sales and profits -  then they would have done it.  They must believe that for the vast majority of their target market, this is irrelevant to their enjoyment of the system in practice and to their consequent purchasing decisions.

Whether Sonos are right or wrong, it’s fundamentally a commercial decision.  It is not primarily about whether or not a graphic equaliser could ‘improve’ the Sonos experience, if a user could be bothered with it..

I don’t recall seeing any review of the Sonos system or products that listed ‘lack of a graphic equaliser’ as a downside.  There may well be some out there, but I have missed them.  Interestingly. lack of ‘hires’ support is often cited as a downside in reviews, and I suspect that Sonos have begun to offer hires support purely because of perception and marketing, not because of any technical merit in favour of hires.

K

 

In an ideal world everyone would listen to the same music and everyone would enjoy the same type of sound. 

And that would be a horrible world. Imagine the spice girls 24/7/365 as one example.

K

 

There are several frequencies of low, mid and high and all enjoyed in certain ways.

Something for you to think over - I have heard how the designer of Harbeth speakers designs his speakers that are well known for delivering natural sound. He does this using the human voice, and the piano. He holds that if these two sound good/natural, so will everything else within the limitations of the frequency response of the speaker design. He does not spent time listening to every possible frequency and how that sounds, for very long.

You can of course disagree.

 

T
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@Kumar 

In an ideal world everyone would listen to the same music and everyone would enjoy the same type of sound. On the other hand, the beauty of it is that in the world we live in, not everyone has the same tastes. There are several frequencies of low, mid and high and all enjoyed in certain ways. If Sonos does not want to hear anything then just AT LEAST put us a slide to control the mid-range, at least I will have the feeling to have the equivalent of settings as in my old car.

K

@Kumar

in relation with people who work with concert sound equipment of very great value and let me tell you, these people all have analog equalizers and aren't having fun like boys. They are qualified people who know what they are doing.

If you think that by adding an equaliser to Sonos at home, you will get the same kind of control that people referred to above get in a sound mixing studio, it is not going to happen. That is what I meant by equaliser use - I was not referring to those that use it in a mixing studio.

I do not for a moment believe that a quality home sound system must have an equaliser, and I suspect Sonos thinks the same way. So there is very little chance that Sonos will give you this feature - you have to now figure out your next steps.

T
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@Kumar

Kumar I don't understand why you treat people like boys who play games, those who use an equalizer. We should first of all respect people. Then since I was 10 years old that I appreciate the quality of sound, today I work in music and I am in relation with people who work with concert sound equipment of very great value and let me tell you, these people all have analog equalizers and aren't playing with toys. They are qualified people who know what they are doing. Now with regard to Sonos if the option can affect the virgin quality of the signal then it will be necessary to weigh the pros and cons, either to have a loss to the virgin signal or to have a poorly calibrated sound. As a customer I would like to HAVE THE CHOICE and well for the moment it is obviously not possible. If unfortunately the sound would not be virgin even in flat mode, then simply have a button to bypass this mode completely according to the customer's desire.
K 
SONOS speakers largely under-exploited. Being an audiophile for a long time, I notice that the qualities of the Sonos speakers are of great precision and of great quality. On the other hand it is spoiled at the level of the system which manages them, in effect the application does not offer in ANY WAY to adjust the sound to the top level with an equalizer (10 bands and +). Since every style of music is NOT EQUALS AT ALL, a professional sound system such as SONOS should give us the choice by offering us a QUALITY EQUALIZER option.

I have spent a decade in the Alice in Wonderland world of audiophiles; it was a very expensive hobby.

There was and probably still exists a very strong body of opinion in that world about how tone controls of any kind do not have a place in a truly audiophile set up, because they corrupt the signal. The supposedly virgin signal. Which is why even today, many stereo amps offer a choice to bypass tone controls because the belief is that even if the tone controls are set to flat, that circuitry corrupts the virgin.

Then there are respected makes like Quad that know that the final result isn't from the virgin signal alone, but how it, fed into the speakers, makes the speakers deliver sound that interacts with room acoustics before it is heard and that this corruption needs to be countered by the corruption of tilt control - in essence a way to change the slope of the entire frequency response such that no frequency is allowed to unnaturally jump out.

And there are the conventional tone controls, the kind Sonos has. A equaliser is nothing but a toy for boys that want to imagine themselves at mixing consoles, or even on the bridge of Starship Enterprise. It does little more to the SQ than what Sonos Eq can do if used in every permutation/combination of the Sonos sliders. Where it does more, is by rendering the sound to be unnatural. Now, there are some who want that option, but Sonos does not seem to see that lot as its target market.

True play is of course just the Sonos opinion of what is the correct sound for a given room. I find that it either has no more than a very subtle or no effect, or a beneficial one where the Sub is in the mix. But that does not mean that it has to be everyone’s taste, this Sonos opinion, which is why Sonos offers the option of toggling it off. Which can be done on Android devices as well.

chicks 
Thanks i will try it but i am 100% sure it does not and will never replace a real equalizer that the user chooses to configure by HIMSELF and not one made by a robot. Sometimes you have to go back to the source of things that works and stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

Trust me, it will stick.  

 

BTW, every DSP Room correction system, from Anthem, etc, is automated, using a calibrated microphone and a tuning process.  Some of them cost a lot more than a Sonos speaker.  They do correct for room nodes that a yokel with a 10-band EQ will never correct for manually.

T
Userlevel 1
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Thanks i will try it but i am 100% sure it does not and will never replace a real equalizer that the user chooses to configure by HIMSELF and not one made by a robot. Sometimes you have to go back to the source of things that works and stop trying to reinvent the wheel.
chicks

@chicks This TruePlay system is only available on Apple, no TruePlay on Android devices.

No, the TUNING process can only be done on Apple.  Once tuned, will stay that way, regardless of which OS the control app is running on.  Borrow an iPhone...

T
Userlevel 1
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@chicks This TruePlay system is only available on Apple, no TruePlay on Android devices.

T
Userlevel 1
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@Jeffrey_35 There are people like you who like simplicity, there are people like me who like to maximize the potential of our products. That’s the beauty of it. I respect your choice and Sonos should respect it too.

chicks

Sonos speakers have sophisticated in-built DSP room EQ, called TruePlay.  No need for manual EQ, which most would simply screw up.

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