Hello. My name is Ben Smith and I head up Product Management for Experience, Software, and Developer Programs at Sonos.
I wanted to get more feedback from you all on your expectations for Shuffling tracks in your queue. I have reviewed the feedback on ask.sonos.com and received e-mails from a few of you (via our CEO John MacFarlane), but I wanted to get a better sense from those of you who use Shuffle, how your really want it to work.
When you select shuffle what do you want to happen? What don't you want to happen?
Thanks!
Ben
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That was my question. How do we add a request for that? Just to have the alarm play whatever was last playing and not reload the queue.
Userlevel 7
+22
Create a new thread as idea on this forum.
So why can't there be a persistent shuffle option, so anytime you open a new playlist it automatically shuffles the playlist when you begin playing it, like so many other apps? The manual shuffle each and every time seems to just lead to a poor user experience.
As a new user, it just seems like it wasn't well thought out when it was built, not very intuitive and buried. Should just been a button on the front level of the controller app, either as an overlay on the album art or right below it in the < < = > >section. When you click on shuffle button it would just shuffle anything that was in that list in the background automatically. Seems to be a recurring suggestion though.
As a new user, it just seems like it wasn't well thought out when it was built, not very intuitive and buried. Should just been a button on the front level of the controller app, either as an overlay on the album art or right below it in the < < = > >section. When you click on shuffle button it would just shuffle anything that was in that list in the background automatically. Seems to be a recurring suggestion though.
It is persistent. Shuffle remains ON until the user disables it.
All playback options (Shuffle, Repeat, Crossfade) are also reset when the unit is rebooted. So if you're in the habit of routinely turning the Player off at the wall (a bad idea in view of reduced product life) that would disable Shuffle each time.
I still would like the option when using a playlist from your library that there was an option of add to queue and shuffle.
Userlevel 2
Please restore the queue list order during shuffle play.
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
Userlevel 2
BTW, I am pleased to see Sonos seeking feedback. Thanks for that.
If on shuffle mode and I select new playlists to replace the current cue, stop playing a track from the first play list each time. Load 1 at random and play a track from it, then go back to adding the rest of the playlists.
Shuffle mode seems to skip huge chunks of my playlists that I never hear. I generally load up to close to 32k tracks, 1 playlist per band.
Shuffle mode seems to skip huge chunks of my playlists that I never hear. I generally load up to close to 32k tracks, 1 playlist per band.
I want shuffle to more or less provide a random selection. What I don't want is something that just happened with one of my playlists with 150 songs across probably 12 CDs. Less than 10 songs in I get four in a row off of the same CD. A while later I got a repeat, but looking back at the already played list could not see the first instance. Also the count seemed low so maybe the play counter got reset which might relate to why the repeat occurred.
Listening in the past I have been unhappy with what I consider "lumpiness" in the shuffle content for lack of a better word.
Listening in the past I have been unhappy with what I consider "lumpiness" in the shuffle content for lack of a better word.
Userlevel 2
+7
As I originally stated, I would like randomness "more or less". I'm not looking for mathematically strict randomness. My iPod delivers pretty decent results. Some double shots but not nearly the lumpiness on CDs that I see with Sonos. The only other example I have to work with is the shuffle in my C300 Mercedes. It also does not have as much lumpiness.
I agree, a random order would be best and "remembering" it's place in the queue from when last used. I have noticed that on "random shuffle" a few tracks get picked on lots more than others, and sometimes, the order of two tracks is the same. I don't expect to hear the same track each day in a playlist of around 3500 tracks but in the last three days, I have heard the same two tracks back to back. That doesn't "feel" random.
As an ex-programmer, I understand how difficult it can be to get a decent random number. Is the seed always the same that causes similar tracks to be selected? Does the calculation give an even spread over the whole set? (e.g. does it favour the centre of the range of track numbers) Or could tracks be marked on last play date and skipped if they were played within the last x hours/days to improve the random "feel".?
It's not just Sonos that does this, the MP3 player in both our cars do much the same and seem to favour some tracks in the set, even when there is a large set to choose from. So it's a common issue with "random" numbers generated by programmers.
Or is it my fault for storing tracks in folders? A quick look shows that one track that plays regularly to the exclusion of others is 4 deep in the file structure.
As an ex-programmer, I understand how difficult it can be to get a decent random number. Is the seed always the same that causes similar tracks to be selected? Does the calculation give an even spread over the whole set? (e.g. does it favour the centre of the range of track numbers) Or could tracks be marked on last play date and skipped if they were played within the last x hours/days to improve the random "feel".?
It's not just Sonos that does this, the MP3 player in both our cars do much the same and seem to favour some tracks in the set, even when there is a large set to choose from. So it's a common issue with "random" numbers generated by programmers.
Or is it my fault for storing tracks in folders? A quick look shows that one track that plays regularly to the exclusion of others is 4 deep in the file structure.
+1
Thought I would add a small suggestion to the original question.
It would be nice to have something like "Replace Queue and Shuffle" added to the list of options when tapping "All Songs" in a playlist. That way you wouldn't always immediately hear the first song in the playlist before manually going into the Queue menu and hitting "Shuffle." Might want to add the same functionality for "Repeat."
I also second the comment from way back when re: being able to shuffle albums (meaning play all songs of an album in order, then shuffle onto next album, etc.). I'm old school when it comes to listening to music in that (at least sometimes) I want to hear entire albums the way the artist released the music. Maybe add the option when long-pressing "Albums" under the Music Library menu.
It would be nice to have something like "Replace Queue and Shuffle" added to the list of options when tapping "All Songs" in a playlist. That way you wouldn't always immediately hear the first song in the playlist before manually going into the Queue menu and hitting "Shuffle." Might want to add the same functionality for "Repeat."
I also second the comment from way back when re: being able to shuffle albums (meaning play all songs of an album in order, then shuffle onto next album, etc.). I'm old school when it comes to listening to music in that (at least sometimes) I want to hear entire albums the way the artist released the music. Maybe add the option when long-pressing "Albums" under the Music Library menu.
Do it the way round. Enable Shuffle then load the queue.
+1
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
Personally I prefer to see the queue in the order of the shuffle the way it is now. It is truer to the real function of the queue--i.e., tells you what has played previously and what is next (whether or not you chose to shuffle your songs).
Unauthorized aside: Just goes to show that Sonos is damned if they do and damned if they don't. There are so many consumers with different needs, they have to make tough design decisions to try to please the majority which often creates an unhappy minority. So I wouldn't be so hard on them to say they "simply discarded" a feature--I imagine a lot of research and discussion when into the decision.
+1
Do it the way round. Enable Shuffle then load the queue.
True dat, although my suggestion stems from the one case where that doesn't work: when there is no queue to begin with (e.g., if the speaker lost power and rebooted). So I change my suggestion to adding the ability to enable shuffle (or repeat) even if there is no queue.
Now that I would certainly support.
Was any of this ever implemented. It seems that the macOS app doesn't use any of these recommendations.
Userlevel 7
+22
I'd like one of two things to happen:
Best: restart playing from the last song that was playing, keep the shuffle order.
Second: reshuffle the list so I don't always hear the same songs until I manually force a new shuffle.
When shuffle is selected don't always pick the first song on the list to play first.
Also if set to shuffle and loop, reshuffle after the last song so the new loop is played in a new order.
Best: restart playing from the last song that was playing, keep the shuffle order.
Second: reshuffle the list so I don't always hear the same songs until I manually force a new shuffle.
When shuffle is selected don't always pick the first song on the list to play first.
Also if set to shuffle and loop, reshuffle after the last song so the new loop is played in a new order.
+1
I'd still like to see a "Shuffle Album" option--add a button in the Album list screen similar to the Song list screen now.
Userlevel 1
With any company I give the customer services route one chance to rectify whatever the problem is. If that doesn't work I go straight to the top and it's amazing how quickly things get sorted. Every time. Except with Sonos. I emailed the CEO nearly 2 years ago and got no response. I shall email again and I suggest that everyone else does too and not just once. Every day until something is done about it. When I bought my Sonos kit (a lot of it and at great expense) it claimed to have a shuffle function. It does not and that is simply unacceptable.
You have to be kidding.
I spent $8,000 on Sonos, but i cant use the controller to play my playlists because i hear then same 1/50th of my music over and over when on random. Now i am forced to use iTunes to shuffle and input to Sonos as a TV in making the system a bunch of dumb speakers i can only control from my mac, not any handheld device. At least iTunes shuffles where Sonos does not appear to. If you were facing this issue, you would likely grow very tired of the 2 year wait for a solution. Just because you don't see a problem, does not mean others are being silly. If Sonos wanted to play real smart, they would release an SDK and let people help them evolve their software.
My wife, who is not technical gave a product review when i explained why she kept hearing the same few songs over and over: "well that's a bit crap then, isn't it"
It seems that there is a huge difference between the behaviour that John M. says we should be experiencing and what we are actually experiencing. I did a bit of testing yesterday with a playlist of ten tracks and it did indeed behave like John said. So why I have and I and others experienced problems with actual playlists?
Could it be that there is at least one other variable that is causing the Sonos shuffle to break?
1. Number of songs in playlist?
2. Playlists created outside of Sonos and then imported??
Just thinking aloud really.....
I really hope this upgrade is realeased soon!
Could it be that there is at least one other variable that is causing the Sonos shuffle to break?
1. Number of songs in playlist?
2. Playlists created outside of Sonos and then imported??
Just thinking aloud really.....
I really hope this upgrade is realeased soon!
I agree Stuart. I did similar testing by loading a single album with 8 songs and it behaves perfectly as you would expect. But when I have my 1800 song playlist I try to play each day it does not.
My hunch is it is in the grouping/ungrouping. If you have several players grouped and ungroup one it goes back to where that queue was loaded. That I have experienced multiple times. So when you re-group them does that affect it?
My hunch is it is in the grouping/ungrouping. If you have several players grouped and ungroup one it goes back to where that queue was loaded. That I have experienced multiple times. So when you re-group them does that affect it?
Anyway, I think User500327 above sums it up the best. New random order each time you play a list or press the random icon, shuffle albums, and (not as important to me) show the queue in the order it plays.
Keen to see some changes here along any of the lines of the other excellent feedback and ideas. Could we have an update as to whether anything is happening?
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