Need possibility of adding delay in addition to the normal 70ms
Userlevel 1
Hi, I'm very excited about Sonos, and recently upgraded AV Receivers to be able to seamlessly switch inputs from CD/DVD/Phono/Sonos while using the Autoplay function in Sonos. Fantastic idea, (and very surprised not everyone's doing this), BUT I find that my system is no longer in sync (the Sonos P3's and P5 are ahead of the sound coming through the Connect via Hifi). I did not have this issue with the lower end Denon 1911, but I do now with the 3313. I can add delay with the 3313, but that doesn't help me since it's the other Sonos modules that are ahead of the Denon. Adding the possibility of adding delay (in addition to the required 70ms for processing) would make my system whole again.
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Seems like we aren't getting any joy on this so I am wondering if there is another way. In searching for audio delay devices I came across this device:
http://www.felston.com/dd740/index.htm
Ok so it costs money but it does take four inputs so you could buy one along with some long optical cables and hook them all up and set your delays as needed.
Having this functionality from Sonos would clearly be better and cheaper but hey if you just can't stand it anymore then at least this might be a solution.
http://www.felston.com/dd740/index.htm
Ok so it costs money but it does take four inputs so you could buy one along with some long optical cables and hook them all up and set your delays as needed.
Having this functionality from Sonos would clearly be better and cheaper but hey if you just can't stand it anymore then at least this might be a solution.
Yeah ok so the option I put in isn't an option because it would only work from the SONOS:CONNECT between the digital out and the AV Receiver but that isn't where we have the problem. The problem is with the PLAY devices where there is no way you can get between the signal and the speakers to introduce your own delay.
Does anyone know of a way to delay the audio coming from the SONOS:AMP?
As it doesn't have any outputs the only way would be between the speaker cable and the speakers.
Is they anything that would take speaker cable as the input, introduce a delay and then connect to your speakers?
Does anyone know of a way to delay the audio coming from the SONOS:AMP?
As it doesn't have any outputs the only way would be between the speaker cable and the speakers.
Is they anything that would take speaker cable as the input, introduce a delay and then connect to your speakers?
Wish I had known this before buying a bunch of speakers and connect's for my house.... incredibly irritating and quite arrogant from Sonos to assume that anyone trying to feed a separate amp/dac set up should just stick to their products or put up with this unacceptable lag.
By the way, it's been mentioned before but going with pure direct or using the analogue stereo inputs will solve the issue - but it does mean you're using the Sonos Connect's processing rather than your fancy powered speaker/amp/receiver's. I put up with with this work-around for my TV area (even though my Pioneer amp has a much better DAC), but now I want to use a Connect with a Devialet Phantom (yes, I know it has functionality that rivals Sonos, but I'm integrating it into a Sonos house), and the delay is dreadful (and the Phantom's DSP cannot be turned off even if I wanted to).
Seems bizarre to me that Sonos has ignored this issue for so long - a timing adjustment setting under the advanced tab would make a lot of people happy. Those people are the ones that care about audio (let's not use the term 'audiophile' in case it scares Sonos off), and end up buying tons of equipment that tends towards the higher price/quality end of spectrum.
Clearly we are on this forum because we love what Sonos brings to the party (good value-for-money speaker solutions, great interface, great streaming support), so if there's a good technical impediment to why this has not been sorted out I think we all need to hear it, or Sonos will find people peeling off as alternative solutions become better at their schtick, and you'll be left with 'consumers' who buy one or two Play 1s and leave it at that.
Sorry for the rant, pretty disappointed today!
By the way, it's been mentioned before but going with pure direct or using the analogue stereo inputs will solve the issue - but it does mean you're using the Sonos Connect's processing rather than your fancy powered speaker/amp/receiver's. I put up with with this work-around for my TV area (even though my Pioneer amp has a much better DAC), but now I want to use a Connect with a Devialet Phantom (yes, I know it has functionality that rivals Sonos, but I'm integrating it into a Sonos house), and the delay is dreadful (and the Phantom's DSP cannot be turned off even if I wanted to).
Seems bizarre to me that Sonos has ignored this issue for so long - a timing adjustment setting under the advanced tab would make a lot of people happy. Those people are the ones that care about audio (let's not use the term 'audiophile' in case it scares Sonos off), and end up buying tons of equipment that tends towards the higher price/quality end of spectrum.
Clearly we are on this forum because we love what Sonos brings to the party (good value-for-money speaker solutions, great interface, great streaming support), so if there's a good technical impediment to why this has not been sorted out I think we all need to hear it, or Sonos will find people peeling off as alternative solutions become better at their schtick, and you'll be left with 'consumers' who buy one or two Play 1s and leave it at that.
Sorry for the rant, pretty disappointed today!
Any updates on this issue? I would also appreciate this addition to the Sonos System and think, it should not be too hard to implement. Actually, one cannot use the digital output of the Connect together with any other Sonos product, as they will never be in sync....
+1 for me. Like everyone else, I'm getting the echo-like delay.
In my case, I direct input into the Connect from my main audio amp, which plays the output from my PC through the conventional audio system. My always-on portable automatically turns on the radio during the morning to wake me up, reminds me of stuff, etc. It's the nerve centre and that's not about to change. Sonos wants to be centre of everything, but that just doesn't fit with my needs, and obviously I'm not the only one. The problem with the vision of Sonos being your one-and-only audio source is the same problem as having a combined TV-and-VHS (remember those?): at least one of the bits of the system is going to be sub-par. If Sonos would stick to giving us wireless audio, that would be great. But I have better ways to source my audio.
Like so many tech companies, Sonos has developed a "vision" and is trying to force it onto unwilling users. How unfortunate that they don't just concentrate on giving their paying customers what they want.
If Sonos imagines this is a A/V receiver versus digital future issue, they're dead wrong. There are all sorts of places from which to source digital audio (what about people with home automation systems?), and it makes sense for many to route that audio to a good-quality hi-fi system and have Sonos merely transmit the output to wireless speakers.
LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!
In my case, I direct input into the Connect from my main audio amp, which plays the output from my PC through the conventional audio system. My always-on portable automatically turns on the radio during the morning to wake me up, reminds me of stuff, etc. It's the nerve centre and that's not about to change. Sonos wants to be centre of everything, but that just doesn't fit with my needs, and obviously I'm not the only one. The problem with the vision of Sonos being your one-and-only audio source is the same problem as having a combined TV-and-VHS (remember those?): at least one of the bits of the system is going to be sub-par. If Sonos would stick to giving us wireless audio, that would be great. But I have better ways to source my audio.
Like so many tech companies, Sonos has developed a "vision" and is trying to force it onto unwilling users. How unfortunate that they don't just concentrate on giving their paying customers what they want.
If Sonos imagines this is a A/V receiver versus digital future issue, they're dead wrong. There are all sorts of places from which to source digital audio (what about people with home automation systems?), and it makes sense for many to route that audio to a good-quality hi-fi system and have Sonos merely transmit the output to wireless speakers.
LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!
Please add me to the list. I was seriously impressed by the Play speakers that I recommended a friend buy however, as my main system is hifi I can't yet convert the rest of the house to Sonos because of this issue. I want to take the Sonos digital output into my Qute HD DAC which then feeds my traditional Arcam Amp and subsequently my speakers. Obviously I understand there will be a delay with the digital processing and was hoping you could manually adjust the output on the Play satellites to compensate (my Samsung TV and Sky set top box allow these sort of adjustments). Please get to it Sonos and you'll no doubt discover a new market.
Thanks in advance ;o)
Thanks in advance ;o)
I have had Sonos Connect for 2 years, and have used it to stream music to my six klipsch speakers, through a high end Pioneer AV-receiver. For this purpose, Sonos is a fantastic product.
Last saturday I expanded the system with one play 1 in the kitschen, and one in the bathroom. This just killed the hole listening experience, due to the problem of delay, described over the preceding 7 pages.
Had I known this in advance, the play 1 would not have been purchased. There is nothing in the commersials for Sonos, alerting buyers about this "out- of- sync" problem. The result for listening is horrible! I am very disapponted that Sonos keep on with the "perfect sync" commercials. This is a lie as big as the moon, as more and more customers now have an AV-receiver in ther home, and will be confronted with this issue (unless they are deaf).
Lucky me, the shop from where I bought these speakers, have a 30 days "no- question asked" return policy. Anyone like to take a guess what will happen with my two Sonos play 1? And after that I will buy a couple of better speakers , and connect them to different zones in the receiver. Hopefully this will solve the sync problem, but I will have to use cables.
Last saturday I expanded the system with one play 1 in the kitschen, and one in the bathroom. This just killed the hole listening experience, due to the problem of delay, described over the preceding 7 pages.
Had I known this in advance, the play 1 would not have been purchased. There is nothing in the commersials for Sonos, alerting buyers about this "out- of- sync" problem. The result for listening is horrible! I am very disapponted that Sonos keep on with the "perfect sync" commercials. This is a lie as big as the moon, as more and more customers now have an AV-receiver in ther home, and will be confronted with this issue (unless they are deaf).
Lucky me, the shop from where I bought these speakers, have a 30 days "no- question asked" return policy. Anyone like to take a guess what will happen with my two Sonos play 1? And after that I will buy a couple of better speakers , and connect them to different zones in the receiver. Hopefully this will solve the sync problem, but I will have to use cables.
I have solved the delay by using the "pure direct" on my amp, the delay seems to be much reduced, it may still be there, but its good enough to have a party.
However this means i cant use my Amp to both zones in the house, which was knda the point of getting the connect... i may see if optical is faster.
adding a delay to the speaker would seem to be a simple answer, it would be the same delay for all non AMP speakers and only necessary when the connect and non connect speakers are in a single group.
However this means i cant use my Amp to both zones in the house, which was knda the point of getting the connect... i may see if optical is faster.
adding a delay to the speaker would seem to be a simple answer, it would be the same delay for all non AMP speakers and only necessary when the connect and non connect speakers are in a single group.
Pure direct solves the problem with delay, because this program do as the name suggest,-lets the music throug without prosessing it. Conesequently the sound qualitet will suffer, as there are only output from the front speakers,not from the center,and the surround speakers.
Having bought my Sonos system just a few months ago, including a connect that plugs into the red and white RCA inputs of my Pioneer Kuros TV, which is equipped with excellent loudspeakers, I soon became aware of a slight delay when adding the TV speakers - the only stereo component - to the rest of the apartment. Now I see that this forum has been complaining about the issue for years - at least 3. Is Sonos saying it is technically impossible to add a delay adjustment to the installation? Perhaps, but I have not seen a clear statement on their part.
I don't want to mix issues, but I notice another big area of complaints - the inadequacy of the implementation of spotify. There also the complaints have been around for years, and nothing happens, and again no explanation from Sonos.
Is this a policy, a policy of no change and no explanation? I find it repulsive.
I don't want to mix issues, but I notice another big area of complaints - the inadequacy of the implementation of spotify. There also the complaints have been around for years, and nothing happens, and again no explanation from Sonos.
Is this a policy, a policy of no change and no explanation? I find it repulsive.
Userlevel 7
+22
I'm not sure the technical reason for not adding delay ability to other speakers. The Playbar is the only one with any kind of delay adjustment. But yes your TV speakers obviously add a lot of delay (typical for a TV) and aren't going to be in sync with stand alone Sonos speakers.
They recently added a lot of the requested Spotify integration. For full integration of course Spotify has to add Sonos Casting (which they won't) or Sonos needs to add Google Chromecast Audio to its ability (which we are hoping for).
Of course you have a Connect so you can get a cheap $30 chromecast dongle and cast all you want from the Spotify app directly.
They recently added a lot of the requested Spotify integration. For full integration of course Spotify has to add Sonos Casting (which they won't) or Sonos needs to add Google Chromecast Audio to its ability (which we are hoping for).
Of course you have a Connect so you can get a cheap $30 chromecast dongle and cast all you want from the Spotify app directly.
Thank you Chris. How do you plug a chromecast audio dongle into the Sonos Connect? Or otherwise how to you get to broadcast the Spotify app on all speakers using the dongle? Perhaps by using an RCA to stereo cable adapter? I have searching the Internet since reading your post (from which I learned about the dongle), and it seems all it has is a stereo cable input which does not match anything on the Connect.
Userlevel 7
+22
sure just get cable like this to plug the Chromecast Audio into the input on the Connect
http://www.amazon.com/PcConnectTM-Stereo-Y-Cable-3-5mm-Female/dp/B009Q88W0W/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460990905&sr=1-2&keywords=stereo+to+2+rca
or just get one of these from the chromecast to the Connect (be surprised if you don't already have one of these lying around the house http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460991116&sr=1-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca
Then you can set the input to autoplay to a certain speaker on your system or you can manually just chose Line In - Chromecast as what a speaker or group is playing. It can play just like any other Sonos music source.
In the Spotify app you will have a Chromecast button to send music to Chromecast (and thus Sonos).
http://www.amazon.com/PcConnectTM-Stereo-Y-Cable-3-5mm-Female/dp/B009Q88W0W/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460990905&sr=1-2&keywords=stereo+to+2+rca
or just get one of these from the chromecast to the Connect (be surprised if you don't already have one of these lying around the house http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460991116&sr=1-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca
Then you can set the input to autoplay to a certain speaker on your system or you can manually just chose Line In - Chromecast as what a speaker or group is playing. It can play just like any other Sonos music source.
In the Spotify app you will have a Chromecast button to send music to Chromecast (and thus Sonos).
Userlevel 7
+22
of course here is the chromecast audio dongle you need https://www.google.com/chromecast/audio/explore/
Userlevel 7
+22
You could also split the audio from the chromecast with it going direct to TV and then the other going to the connect input.
Why?
The TV would play the direct feed from the Chromecast dongle then (and add delay as the TV is obviously doing).
But - feeding into the input on the Connect will also delay the signal about 70ms in the case of Sonos digitizing and setting up to stream in sync.
So then any speaker playing Chromecast in Sonos will be delayed 70ms from the chromecast feed. Question is - will that then make it more in sync with the TV delayed sound (TV may be delaying more than 70ms but you'll see if test).
Then possibility chromecast to TV and Sonos will make the 2 systems more in-sync.
Why?
The TV would play the direct feed from the Chromecast dongle then (and add delay as the TV is obviously doing).
But - feeding into the input on the Connect will also delay the signal about 70ms in the case of Sonos digitizing and setting up to stream in sync.
So then any speaker playing Chromecast in Sonos will be delayed 70ms from the chromecast feed. Question is - will that then make it more in sync with the TV delayed sound (TV may be delaying more than 70ms but you'll see if test).
Then possibility chromecast to TV and Sonos will make the 2 systems more in-sync.
Thanks again Chris, I wanted to wait with my reply until I had the Chromecast audio set up. I now have it. It took a little effort, because I could never get that temporary wifi network that is mentioned in the instructions, but I set it up with my regular wifi and it works. This morning I had micro cuts in the music, but that seems to have disappeared for the time being. One aspect that is complicated is the volume setting, in 3 places: the Sonos application, the iPhone, and the Chromecast application.
Your last suggestion is very imaginative indeed. It would require more cables to split the signal. I'll leave it for later.
Anyway, what was originally a post out of frustration more than anything else has provided me with very useful advice. Thank you.
Your last suggestion is very imaginative indeed. It would require more cables to split the signal. I'll leave it for later.
Anyway, what was originally a post out of frustration more than anything else has provided me with very useful advice. Thank you.
Userlevel 7
+22
Keep that chromecast dongle as far away from any other wifi equipment as you can (don't have it just sitting right on top of the connect).
I would keep the Chromecast volume at a fixed level (like 90%) then adjust just the Sonos volume as you would normally.
I would keep the Chromecast volume at a fixed level (like 90%) then adjust just the Sonos volume as you would normally.
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