I have been a Sonos user, and have spent a LOT of money on their products since 2005.
I have posted a few high priority, low difficulty suggestions over the years, and have watched *many, many* others do the same, and have not ever seen a SINGLE suggestion implemented.
Can anyone name a single user-submitted suggestion that has been implemented by Sonos ?
This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.
Page 3 / 5
Userlevel 1
The fundamental goal of Sonos is to make money and grow the business, you don't do that by targeting 1% of the market.
I am the product manager of a software company. No matter how many new features, enhancements and fixes we turn out it is the nature of the beast that a successful product will have users who can make suggestions faster than we can accommodate them. If we were able to have as many developers as we needed to keep up with the demand the price of the product would have to reflect it. If you think as I do that the Sonos kit is pretty expensive, you'd be alarmed at how much more expensive it would get.
So we are forced to make compromises and prioritize to use a scarce resource as best we can - and that inevitably disappoints.
There's also an issue with what's known as 'crossing the chasm' when your typical user moves from the early adopter to the early majority. These two audiences have very different expectations. The early adopters became used to the idea of their ideas tending to make it into the product, and to make it quickly. So they tend to be disappointed as the product matures.
The early majority expect it to work and to bea part of the fabric of life, which unfotunately means developing services to appeal to the masses. Like several who have posted here I too am only interested in my music library and radio. That's it for me but not for gen 'yy' I suspect.
All the ideas I have seen are individually brilliant but for me there is one overrriding consideration which trumps all else. Stability, stability, stability. The telecoms industry works to a principal of 99.999% uptime. In other word in a typical year a user will accept no more than 5 minutes of downtime. That when they pick up the handset they get dial tone.
That's what I want out of my music system and I would forego anything for that.
OK, I lied. There is another thing. Quality. I can hear the difference between flac and mpcrap sorry mp3. :)
I loved your post.
It was a perfect explanation of what has become of the product..(and my feelings towards it)
As an early adopter I am now moving on to other things like 24/192 streaming, DSD playback off SD cards and other such ventures..
I'll still keep my Sonos system, but alas, it seems to me the product's focus has definitely moved onto pleasing the masses (look at all the different speaker options coming out etc) and away from hifi quality and an absolute obsession with 100% stability.
Some of us old timers of the product like me bob up now and again on this forum and try to stere the focus back to where the product all began: As a hi end piece of hifi (in those days it was one of the first redbook streamers to compete with the old CD transort way of doing things) Sonos in those days could only be purchased at a Hi fi (ie high street) retailer.
We try and suggest ways' of doing this, (how to return the focus of the product development back to where the fundamental goals were) but invariably get shot down..
We try to drum up some of the 'ol excitement but alas...
Anyway. Loved your post. It was eloquently put. It sums up my opinion of where Sonos is now as well. Certainly in my eyes anyway. Cheers.
Hello,
Pandora is now available in Australia and New Zealand and can be added through the More Music menu.
Pandora is now available in Australia and New Zealand and can be added through the More Music menu.
Userlevel 2
LOL are you a lawyer?
That's different from them claiming it works in the region though.
I'm not sure what the advertising laws are in Australia, but if you (or moondy) really believe it is false advertising then you to take it to whatever advertising authority there is in Australia.
I can tell you that if you approached the ASA in the UK they wouldn't consider this as false advertising.
I will also point out that there are also civil laws that protect companies and individuals against false accusations being made against them in public. As such I suggest that people, in general, need to be more careful about what they accuse companies and others of in public. Unless they can prove those accusations to be true, they risk being sued by the company they are accusing.
I doubt that Sonos would take such a hard line, but making false accusations against companies is a dangerous pastime as some of them can overreact.
Cheers,
Keith
I'm not sure what the advertising laws are in Australia, but if you (or moondy) really believe it is false advertising then you to take it to whatever advertising authority there is in Australia.
I can tell you that if you approached the ASA in the UK they wouldn't consider this as false advertising.
I will also point out that there are also civil laws that protect companies and individuals against false accusations being made against them in public. As such I suggest that people, in general, need to be more careful about what they accuse companies and others of in public. Unless they can prove those accusations to be true, they risk being sued by the company they are accusing.
I doubt that Sonos would take such a hard line, but making false accusations against companies is a dangerous pastime as some of them can overreact.
Cheers,
Keith
Back to the original request 'Has anything posted here ever resulted in a change to the product?' and the follow up posts about the fact that individuals feel their personal requests have been ignored, let me add my 2 cents.
I am the product manager of a software company. No matter how many new features, enhancements and fixes we turn out it is the nature of the beast that a successful product will have users who can make suggestions faster than we can accommodate them. If we were able to have as many developers as we needed to keep up with the demand the price of the product would have to reflect it. If you think as I do that the Sonos kit is pretty expensive, you'd be alarmed at how much more expensive it would get.
So we are forced to make compromises and prioritize to use a scarce resource as best we can - and that inevitably disappoints.
There's also an issue with what's known as 'crossing the chasm' when your typical user moves from the early adopter to the early majority. These two audiences have very different expectations. The early adopters became used to the idea of their ideas tending to make it into the product, and to make it quickly. So they tend to be disappointed as the product matures.
The early majority expect it to work and to bea part of the fabric of life, which unfotunately means developing services to appeal to the masses. Like several who have posted here I too am only interested in my music library and radio. That's it for me but not for gen 'yy' I suspect.
All the ideas I have seen are individually brilliant but for me there is one overrriding consideration which trumps all else. Stability, stability, stability. The telecoms industry works to a principal of 99.999% uptime. In other word in a typical year a user will accept no more than 5 minutes of downtime. That when they pick up the handset they get dial tone.
That's what I want out of my music system and I would forego anything for that.
OK, I lied. There is another thing. Quality. I can hear the difference between flac and mpcrap sorry mp3. 🙂
I am the product manager of a software company. No matter how many new features, enhancements and fixes we turn out it is the nature of the beast that a successful product will have users who can make suggestions faster than we can accommodate them. If we were able to have as many developers as we needed to keep up with the demand the price of the product would have to reflect it. If you think as I do that the Sonos kit is pretty expensive, you'd be alarmed at how much more expensive it would get.
So we are forced to make compromises and prioritize to use a scarce resource as best we can - and that inevitably disappoints.
There's also an issue with what's known as 'crossing the chasm' when your typical user moves from the early adopter to the early majority. These two audiences have very different expectations. The early adopters became used to the idea of their ideas tending to make it into the product, and to make it quickly. So they tend to be disappointed as the product matures.
The early majority expect it to work and to bea part of the fabric of life, which unfotunately means developing services to appeal to the masses. Like several who have posted here I too am only interested in my music library and radio. That's it for me but not for gen 'yy' I suspect.
All the ideas I have seen are individually brilliant but for me there is one overrriding consideration which trumps all else. Stability, stability, stability. The telecoms industry works to a principal of 99.999% uptime. In other word in a typical year a user will accept no more than 5 minutes of downtime. That when they pick up the handset they get dial tone.
That's what I want out of my music system and I would forego anything for that.
OK, I lied. There is another thing. Quality. I can hear the difference between flac and mpcrap sorry mp3. 🙂
That's different from them claiming it works in the region though.
I'm not sure what the advertising laws are in Australia, but if you (or moondy) really believe it is false advertising then you to take it to whatever advertising authority there is in Australia.
I can tell you that if you approached the ASA in the UK they wouldn't consider this as false advertising.
I will also point out that there are also civil laws that protect companies and individuals against false accusations being made against them in public. As such I suggest that people, in general, need to be more careful about what they accuse companies and others of in public. Unless they can prove those accusations to be true, they risk being sued by the company they are accusing.
I doubt that Sonos would take such a hard line, but making false accusations against companies is a dangerous pastime as some of them can overreact.
Cheers,
Keith
Userlevel 2
I wonder if this counts as explicit advertising. 😃
Keith
I am in Australia. My location is set as Australia too. I see the pandora icon On the sonos.com.au/music page.
This is not just a request, its false advertising.
Pandora does not seem to be advertised as available on Sonos's Australian pages.
Unless they explicitly claim Pandora is available in Australia on Sonos, then clearly it's not false advertising.
Cheers,
Keith
Userlevel 2
They cant even add Pandora in Australia which has been advertised and available for the past 7 months.
This is not just a request, its false advertising.
This is not just a request, its false advertising.
I would in perticular like to see the clock, and the snooze features included in other controllers. Is there a technical reason why they are not there?
+1 Would like this as well.
Userlevel 1
OK, got it!
But since the native controllers are now being discontinued, i would like to ask that you bring the rich alarm capabilities to the other controllers also, especially iPad and iPod (and WP8 soon).
I would in perticular like to see the clock, and the snooze features included in other controllers. Is there a technical reason why they are not there?
But since the native controllers are now being discontinued, i would like to ask that you bring the rich alarm capabilities to the other controllers also, especially iPad and iPod (and WP8 soon).
I would in perticular like to see the clock, and the snooze features included in other controllers. Is there a technical reason why they are not there?
The Sonos-branded handheld Controllers (CR100, CR200) can be set to display a full screen clock.
It's not an LED, of course, as those controllers are LCD; and it works everywhere, not just the bedroom. The name quoted was from the Sound Idea thread that inspired the feature (well, we like to think it inspired it anyway 🙂 ).
It's not an LED, of course, as those controllers are LCD; and it works everywhere, not just the bedroom. The name quoted was from the Sound Idea thread that inspired the feature (well, we like to think it inspired it anyway 🙂 ).
Userlevel 1
[QUOTE=jgatie;164645]Dozens:
User submitted suggestions that have come to fruition:
Clock - LED - Bedroom
Which feature is this???
User submitted suggestions that have come to fruition:
Clock - LED - Bedroom
Which feature is this???
+1
I can understand some of your examples and even agre partly on them but my conclusion is that different people can have totally different approaches in how they chose which music to play.
The only thing I have missed in the index is the year of the recording.
Sometimes I like to hear music from a year like 1985. Soloution was to make a playlist of all songs for those years.
br
agron
The only thing I have missed in the index is the year of the recording.
Sometimes I like to hear music from a year like 1985. Soloution was to make a playlist of all songs for those years.
br
agron
Because the UI is what all my neighbours get so impressed by.
agron
The UI is impressive from the POV that a computer is helping you locate and play an album or track from your chair, which is heaps better than having to physically hunt out and play the CD.
The UI is disappointing because it makes such little use of the computer for music browsing purposes, or the information that I have tagged into my music tracks. Examples:
* show me the albums for Bob Dylan in date released sequence
* show me the albums which I have purchased in the last six months, or last year
* show me albums which I haven't played for a year
* when searching for Bob Dylan tracks, allow me to also see his tracks from Various Artists compilations or Soundtracks
* show me the composer of the track current playing, or the Conductor etc
* allow me to drill down into my library from composer into genre; ie. Beethoven's Chamber Music, vs his Symphonies etc
* allow me to see the lyrics for those tracks which have them imbedded
* when browsing a Various Artists album in my library, allow me to see the artists for each individual track
* allow me to index the multiple artists tagged against a track or albums
* allow me to index the multiple genres tagged against a track or album; eg. Jazz and Dining for this track, vs Jazz and Party for a different track or album
* allow me to design my own indices to sort or filter my music; eg. Albums played less than three times, and not for a year
There are also disappointing limitations or deficits:
* allow me to lock specific zones so that they can only be controlled by specific controllers.
* allow me to limit the maximum volume for specific zones
* allow me to save zone grouping, volume and equalisation presets
* allow us to use any of the household Last.fm accounts with our Sonos; ditto all the other music services.
* provide me with some alternate UI skins to chose from if I have trouble reading the default one
* allow me to build and edit playlists in way fit for use
* allow me to backup and restore playlists
+1
And just for my interest is not so good with the Sonos UI? I'm not wondering about the PC UI more iThing.
Because the UI is what all my neighbours get so impressed by.
agron
Good and bad user interfaces are very personal. In your opinion, what is an example of a good user interface?
+1
As a relatively new SONOS user (but not new to music, hifi, computers or tech) I'm split down the middle. I consider myself an expert computer and software user, but I had problems initially getting my house setup. Thankfully, I'm savvy enough these forums helped and I'm up and running. Not without my critiques and wishlist of features though.
Here's the main problem that we will continue to experience: SONOS is primarily a hardware company with a side of software to tie it all together. Their software development will always take a back seat to hardware development. The only way SONOS will ever be able to make great software (some could argue our primary SONOS experience) is if they start charging for it. There's just not enough money to build great hardware and great software on the profits of great hardware. There also could be fundamental personnel issues in terms of software development. Frankly the user experience of their software is quite poor. But I don't see them investing a ton of money in the software side of the business.
So what to do? Head on over to ask.sonos.com where most likely the loudest most upvoted feature requests will be looked at and possibly addressed.
Love my SONOS and can't wait to get my Connect:AMP - but any long time user knows it ain't all roses! 🙂
Here's the main problem that we will continue to experience: SONOS is primarily a hardware company with a side of software to tie it all together. Their software development will always take a back seat to hardware development. The only way SONOS will ever be able to make great software (some could argue our primary SONOS experience) is if they start charging for it. There's just not enough money to build great hardware and great software on the profits of great hardware. There also could be fundamental personnel issues in terms of software development. Frankly the user experience of their software is quite poor. But I don't see them investing a ton of money in the software side of the business.
So what to do? Head on over to ask.sonos.com where most likely the loudest most upvoted feature requests will be looked at and possibly addressed.
Love my SONOS and can't wait to get my Connect:AMP - but any long time user knows it ain't all roses! 🙂
rbiowa,
As you have no doubt have noticed, I also will defend SONOS from drive by detractors. And, while I think that SONOS is the best available system, as jgatie states, there are areas that I wish would improve.
Typically, each of us has a burning feature request and we impatiently cannot accept any reason (excuse) that keeps this feature request off the top of the development list.
In some cases satisfying the request would require violating a law of physics or hardware features that do not and likely will not ever exist. Sometimes, pointed exchanges follow after we point this out. Since SONOS offers free upgrades, marketing considerations may preempt. A feature addition that could result in doubling of sales, would have higher priority than a feature that could add 5%. Of course we can always debate why MY feature is the sales doubling feature and your feature is the 5%.
What is your "must have" feature request?
As you have no doubt have noticed, I also will defend SONOS from drive by detractors. And, while I think that SONOS is the best available system, as jgatie states, there are areas that I wish would improve.
Typically, each of us has a burning feature request and we impatiently cannot accept any reason (excuse) that keeps this feature request off the top of the development list.
In some cases satisfying the request would require violating a law of physics or hardware features that do not and likely will not ever exist. Sometimes, pointed exchanges follow after we point this out. Since SONOS offers free upgrades, marketing considerations may preempt. A feature addition that could result in doubling of sales, would have higher priority than a feature that could add 5%. Of course we can always debate why MY feature is the sales doubling feature and your feature is the 5%.
What is your "must have" feature request?
Nope. Sonos' implementation of radio favorites is useless. It takes more clicks to get to favorites than it does to actually find a station. They could also decrease click times for other things like Sirius, Pandora, etc.
Their video advertising is misleading, in that they strongly imply you can play music from your smartphone, when you can't.
Their 'i' button functionality for your local library is laughable, it could be so much more even without linking to an online database. If it was linked to a music database, it would be awesome.
It is increasingly clear that family usage will require multiple accounts for each music service. Sonos does not do this at this time, and it has been requested for years. Ditto for permissions/user assigned zones and virtual zones.
The Desktop Controller still loads too slow, even though it has been improved.
The CR200 is a bit of a bust. Too expensive and prone to failure for too many owners.
In short, one should hesitate before posting definitive statements such as "I have the impression from reading this thread that according to you, Sonos can do no wrong." Just because I defend Sonos against absurd statements like "Sonos never listens to its users" or "There is no point in posting here, nothing ever comes of it" does not make me a sycophantic fanboy. In fact, I find myself more unbiased that those who post absurdities, simply because I see both sides of the debate.
You are obviously very knowledgeable on everything Sonos. As a new Sonos owner, I appreciate that. However, I have the impression from reading this thread that according to you, Sonos can do no wrong. Not looking to pick a fight.
I can't say I envy Sonos too much in this regard. We are a long way from the old days of hi-fi where what you bought was what you get. We are obviously past the days when post-purchase product improvements were greeted with surprise and delight.
This said, I think part of the ongoing challenge with this is the way the discussion about feature set is structured. In some volunteer work I do, we use a product from a company called Team Unify and they have a much more structured approach for feature requests.
Essentially, registered users have a fixed number of votes per time period to 'vote' for feature requests with limited opportunity to offer long winded commentary or debate. The number of votes speaks for itself.
The other thing I think is legitimately valuable about this system is there is a means for the company in turn to indicate whether the idea is under consideration, it has been rejected or it is in development. Why bother asking for feedback if you're not going to even register that it has been heard or considered.
I'm not sure what system they use, but you sure don't see the heated debate that you do on this forum - and they crank out new features rapidly.
Are you aware of the new feature request and support site? It includes the exact type of feedback and user input you are looking for.
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos
Userlevel 2
Since buying my first Sonos component, I've watched with some interest the various discussions about feature requests.
I can't say I envy Sonos too much in this regard. We are a long way from the old days of hi-fi where what you bought was what you get. We are obviously past the days when post-purchase product improvements were greeted with surprise and delight.
This said, I think part of the ongoing challenge with this is the way the discussion about feature set is structured. In some volunteer work I do, we use a product from a company called Team Unify and they have a much more structured approach for feature requests.
Essentially, registered users have a fixed number of votes per time period to 'vote' for feature requests with limited opportunity to offer long winded commentary or debate. The number of votes speaks for itself.
The other thing I think is legitimately valuable about this system is there is a means for the company in turn to indicate whether the idea is under consideration, it has been rejected or it is in development. Why bother asking for feedback if you're not going to even register that it has been heard or considered.
I'm not sure what system they use, but you sure don't see the heated debate that you do on this forum - and they crank out new features rapidly.
I can't say I envy Sonos too much in this regard. We are a long way from the old days of hi-fi where what you bought was what you get. We are obviously past the days when post-purchase product improvements were greeted with surprise and delight.
This said, I think part of the ongoing challenge with this is the way the discussion about feature set is structured. In some volunteer work I do, we use a product from a company called Team Unify and they have a much more structured approach for feature requests.
Essentially, registered users have a fixed number of votes per time period to 'vote' for feature requests with limited opportunity to offer long winded commentary or debate. The number of votes speaks for itself.
The other thing I think is legitimately valuable about this system is there is a means for the company in turn to indicate whether the idea is under consideration, it has been rejected or it is in development. Why bother asking for feedback if you're not going to even register that it has been heard or considered.
I'm not sure what system they use, but you sure don't see the heated debate that you do on this forum - and they crank out new features rapidly.
Userlevel 1
It was a joke, you didn't get?
subjected to moderation in other thread, 3 posts total. not exactly spamming. i'll cease and desist but it would be nice to not be suppressed in the first place.
Spraying the same whinge over a number of different threads, particularly ones that aren't even relevant to your complaint is as irritating as spamming. As has been said elsewhere you aren't doing yourself any favours with that attitude.
Page 3 / 5
Enter your username or e-mail address. We'll send you an e-mail with instructions to reset your password.