No they don't, on digital input, unless you Group them with other devices.

Hey @Ken_Griffiths, you don’t need to go against this (yet) again. It has been said and countered multiple times. Using development costs as a reason not to build something is just a fallacy. The more so if the functionality already exists in the platform. It’s a matter of priority.

Yes, Sonos is a multi-room wireless home audio speaker system. Yet they’ve gone into homecinema, added a mobile speaker with bluetooth, added line-in and added the no-delay functionality. Because they apparently thought it was worth the effort, it’s not up to us to decide that for them.

This is a feature request to expand the no-delay functionality to the analog inputs.

@by7 - I have read some insane suggestions and conspiracy theories on this forum, but I don’t think your contributions will ever be beaten for sheer, jaw-dropping craziness.

It sure needs to me now.

It’s a false dichotomy to think the only options are zero latency or annoyingly large latency.    A false dichotomy designed to throw your hands up and say well gee even light has latency, so I guess perfection isn’t possible, so there’s no reason to try.

Nobody wants latency.  I’ll permit 2-5ms.  maybe 10ms, and be ok with calling that good enough.  If I can perceive it with standard human senses, then it’s too much.

Of course, but yours is a use case which, if Sonos cares about it at all, is very low down on the priority list.

I agree with you for once.  And if they’re designed with a “line-in” port (as opposed to a line-in-with-delay port), they they need to provide line-in without a delay.

Unless what you mean is by definition no product can ever do wrong because what a product does defines what they are designed to do.  Which I’m sure that’s not what you mean, or else recalls, warranties, class actions, wouldn’t exist in this world.  And that would be a terribly flawed logic of course.

DFTT.

Another DJ use case here. Gutted to find I couldn't use with my set up. I had the Sonos 5 (gen 1) and it didn't have any delay. I used DJ with the Gen 1 regularly, in a group with no delay. It's the reason I went out an bought the newer version.

So lame. Come on Sonos. 4 years 150 comments. 

JACKPOT!  You hit the nail on the head @essential.  The only conclusion I can draw from the dismissal seen is that the individuals involved are not genuine sonos users, but instead on the payroll at Sonos corp, and their purpose is to sweep this product failure under the rug as part of a whitewashing effort.

That’s exactly how I’d expect someone on Sonos’s payroll long enough to make 15k replies to respond.

My rational case is when people want to have a single set of speakers for their Laptop, TV, and Music.  That’s pretty rational, and detectable latency is not OK on laptop and TV sources. 

I’d like to add another request for minimum-delay audio for non-grouped devices that are playing audio from line-in. I’d be happy if it’s done programmatically or manually. 

I’ve had a bunch of Sonos devices for a bunch of years, very happy with it, best things I own. But my Play 5s would be *better* if they removed the artificially added delay and I could use them as more functional speakers for my computer and TV. It does sound like there are a good number of other customers and potential customers who have a variety of use cases where they want minimal-delay audio.

Maybe Sonos has concluded it’s really technically complicated. Maybe they've concluded the potential market is just too small. Doesn’t seem that way to me, but those are legit issues, and I obviously don’t have solid evidence. 

But the argument that Sonos wouldn’t do this because it’s not in their main wheelhouse — multiroom wireless speakers — is weak. As many people have said, Sonos has branched out far from that original two-thousand-aughts mission, to reach more customers and make more money. Maybe Sonos has gotten stuck in thinking about the line-in architecture one way; maybe they could become unstuck. Sonos’ new CEO changed the approach to development so they release new products a lot faster (and the next two products are apparently non-wheelhouse: headphones and smaller portable speaker). Maybe this new attitude will be more open to more use cases, like getting rid of line-in delay. 

For people who are repeatedly criticizing this request, we got it. We fully understand that most Sonos users don’t care at all about this feature, that it’s not part of the core function (which is amazing!), and that it would take some work. Even so, we think it’s a small feature that would make Sonos a lot more useful to a lot more people, and we wanted to voice that here. 

Good luck @somatic.  SONOS has been happily ignoring this defining requirement of all speaker products, for years; Supported by a chorus of echoing audiophile fanatics with rose colored glasses.

The absence of a clear pre-sale warning label stating that delay is intentionally added, combined with the fact that most other speakers do not intentionally add delay should itself be grounds for a class action false advertising suit, not just their victims emberassingly pointing it out on a web forum.

The delay we experience is not an accident, or physics, it’s intentionally designed into the code by choice of Sonos.

That sonos doesn’t have an off button for this misfeature, just adds insult to injury.

And exactly what evidence does the poster have that this is an “artificially added delay”?  For all we know, the only path from the line is through the digitizing and buffering hardware and it can’t be changed in software.  A lot of rank speculation in this thread, with no balance to the other possibilities.

And yes, the number of posters clamoring for this feature is miniscule compared to the number of owners.  Vocal? Yes.  But 1,000 posts by 10 people is not equivalent to 10 posts by 1,000 people.  It’s hysterical that one without any knowledge of Sonos’ use case data is saying Sonos, who collect and collate this data on a massive scale, are the ones with their heads in the sand.  Guess a sense of irony is not their strong suit.

So because you have the option to modify the delay within a range, you assume that the delay can be modified to less delay than in your provided range?  That’s your evidence?  Could it possibly be the range is limited for technical reasons rather than arbitrary?

Adding my support for no latency option on the 5's. However this could be possible, I was so surprised to hear there was a delay when using the line in. I had incorrectly assumed sync wouldn't be an option when using line in, but that they would be just bypassing the sync software.

If this feature removes the ability to sync that's the price you pay for no latency, fine by me or if there is a delay on other speakers also fine by me, or if it's advised against due to stuttering then let users decide, but do allow the speaker to be a simple speaker in line in mode if... possible.

The option to use the 5's as standalone speakers will appeal to more than just those willing to post here, many musicians for instance.

For now I've got two 5's as my surround speakers, and two other brand simple monitor speakers on top for my decks, piano and computer sequencing!

You stated this “good article” has “knowledgeable input” on the latency of the line-in.  He got even the very basics of the line-in latency wrong.  I don’t call that “good” or “knowledgeable” at all.  

And we know what you are asking for.  People have been asking for it for 16 years, and it hasn’t come to pass.  TIme to move on. 

Hi all,

I’ve just learnt the hard way about the line-in audio delay for the Sonos 5 and I’m surprised and more then a little annoyed with Sonos. I’ve just renovated my office and I’ve chosen the Play 5 (overkill for the room size) solely for the line-in so I can use it for online meetings with my computer.  I replaced a perfectly good Bose setup to standardise on Sonos and I’m regretting that decision now. I shelled out for the overpriced Flexson wall mount which I won’t be able to return. 

I’m leaving this here to add my voice to the group of people asking Sonos to listen and get the zero latency line-in option available!!!
Thanks
Anthony

Another vote here for the zero latency line-in when playing to local speaker feature. Bought myself a DJ controller and you’d think the £500+ Amp you got for the living room would be able to handle playing it without a delay huh?

Standard disclaimer: I know the delay is there for a reason for all the regular out of the box users and 95% of use cases. All we’re asking for is an advanced option squirrelled away in the settings area where only the most determined will find it to cut out the delay. After all Sonos is for music lovers right… and who loves music more than a DJ?

I too had purchased Sonos products with the specific intent of playing records and making music assuming it would be in real time or at least in a way that would not obstruct performance.

After discovering the latency I realized that going forward I couldn’t scratch, mix records or make beats.

While we may not be a large enough contingent to approve a feature implementation it should be noted that there are multiple threads regarding this issue and many of us are professional DJs, producers and audiophiles who are simply looking to monitor music the old fashioned way (I for one am willing to have a dedicated, hard-lined input if necessary) forgoing the internet and it’s networks to do so.

We will still use the Sonos system to stream the ever growing sources of online services, it would be ideal if the controller software also allowed for certain products to be a standalone amp or powered speaker if offered as an option.

In my opinion, this latency is a design flaw. I assume it is a defect unless responded to by a Sonos help team. I would like to add that the logic behind Sonos’ decision here is not clear to us.

What might be beneficial is to raise it, collectively, as a bug or ticket. 

I will be calling their helpdesk frequently, as this design flaw has rendered my setup almost useless. For those so inclined, the number Call Us at (800) 680-2345

I realize complaining in a forum is both deeply satisfying (heck, I’m doing it right now!) and builds a sense of community. I think both are super valid and this is a great place to share progress. I will be reporting back with any updates. 

And yes, I am not expecting much to happen. But at the very least a response from Sonos on policy could be some progress.
Just thinking maybe if we do act together through their helpdesk channel, it possibly could make a difference...
 

Yep! Totally correct Ratty, thanks! The design flaw is in the communications design. That is, none of us here knew that this ‘feature’ would disable needed functionality at purchase. That means it is a design flaw since it is not clearly stated, and a design flaw in that it is unnecessary for standalone speaker setups with line in being used. 

As I see it, Sonos needs to own this ‘feature’ and state it clearly, or fix it for a substantial number of users. In that sense, it is a design issue. At the very least, it needs to design its communications to serve its users. 

I never would have purchased my sonos 5  (nor perhaps would many on this thread, I assume) had I known of this design ‘feature’. 

I have checked the product FAQ here, and nowhere does it state Aux line in has latency. Confusingly, it does state it for TV. https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/five.html

What Sonos could do is simply change their FAQ. Or perhaps fix the issue. Sorry if the above was confusing. 

 

The latency applies to all Sonos sources, not specifically the line-in.  And it doesn’t matter for listening to music, on one speaker or 20.  It only matters when it is noticeable because referenced to something it was never designed for - like to sync with a TV picture, or as a musical instrument speaker.

If all you are doing with your Play:5 is listening to music, the latency ia completely irrelevant.

Ah we are on familiar territory here.  DFTT.

@ ratty 
Thanks for that, yep, as I mentioned, TV is not line in specific in the FAQ. 

This is what is written for Line in:
Will Five connect to my turntable?
Yes, you can connect your turntable to Five using the line-in port and an auxiliary cable.
https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/five.html

This is the issue for DJs, live performers and others. I understand that Sonos has TV specific products with 30ms latency. The use cases on this thread are often performer specific, where latency is an issue. All, including myself, understand this is likely an edge case for most sonos users. Still, would be nice to communicate in the above 

@john. You are totally right! I don’t understand! As a note, I am a working professional sound designer who has 20+ years experience. I have built DACs, speakers, and sound systems for professional environments. I have had Sonos as my client multiple times, and have worked with their teams over the years in various capacities.
But it is true! I do not fully understand why line-in would require latency. So to your point, thanks for clarifying. Maybe you have some insights? I would assume that with your enthusiasm that you may at least have contacts there? Maybe you can ask them directly?

I’d like to understand more, so that’s why I am calling. Seems like a pretty good idea to ask, but again, it seems that my curiosity has somehow sparked some feelings, so @john, I’ll be sure to add the caveat that I know nothing about Sonos when I report back. 

thanks!