Line-In Latency/Delay Disable PLAY:5

I use the PCs output currently to do this. The reason I'd like the 5 to do it, is so i can use it in another room instead. I'd rather buy a 5 for the next room, not another beam

A good article here, knowledgeable input on the subject of unfortunate latency on the Sonos 5's. 

https://darko.audio/2021/03/3-more-thoughts-on-the-sonos-five-vs-kef-lsx/

 

 

Not knowledgeable at all.  The delay is not due to any DSP.  It is due to the need to buffer the input for multi-room sync.  Sonos needs to build up a buffer before playing, so that any timing issues have a buffer to work with in case of signal errors or dropouts.  The buffer allows each unit to re-request any bad packets before the buffer runs out, thus not affecting the stream and keeping the units in sync.  

 

.. I think we all understand 'why' Sonos has latency, your point has been mentioned many times throughout this thread, the point is understood and valid only from the use of wanting to sync to other speakers.

 

Some here and myself are not interested in always syncing music, but using the speaker as a simple standalone speaker via the line in.

 

We're asking for the option to reduce or remove the latency simply and purely for direct local use of the speaker (musicians use). The article makes a point not made here yet, some knowledgeable info, in that in his experience of latency, it needs to be below 40ms for it to be unnoticeable and or useable as a direct source of sound. Knowing this makes it surely an even easier job for Sonos to allow a lower latency option in the app (albeit with a  dropout warning) for those who still try to sync at that (unreccomended) lower level.

 

It looks like he was as surprised as I was, that the speaker isn't without latency when simply using line in (no syncing necessary), which is why he had to return to add this oversight to his article.

 

This is his l video review here, prior to his redactions that I posted, I stand by it really is a good review.

https://darko.audio/2021/03/a-short-film-about-the-sonos-five-vs-kef-lsx/

+1 to add the simple feature ‘line-in without delay' to supplement ‘line-in for network streaming’. Can’t believe Sonos can’t see this as an opportunity, especially with the reaction to legacy product support - though I guess these are the same folks who one time thought bundling a bridge with every Play:5 had a value to customers wanting to buy multiple units ! 

I have 2 rooms in the house that have streaming music, computer AV/gaming, TV and electronic musical instruments. Guess what - they don’t all play at the same time. But if I follow the steer from Sonos, it seems they’d suggest that having separate amp/speaker systems for each of these - 8 speakers - hardly a credible, elegant solution in a small room. Opportunity missed, Sonos :(

There is about a 70ms delay between a SONOS Line-In and output from a player. There is no option to defeat this. Adding an option to do this would require a complete redesign of the software and this would have negative impact on wireless streaming reliability.

SONOS was not designed to be used in live a DJ environment.

Why are you attempting to use SONOS for this application? Is it for wireless connectivity or compact size?

A workaround would be to use headphones with high acoustic isolation to monitor the mixer output.

I live in an apartment. In my uneducated opinion, the distance between all the SONOS speakers, in all the different rooms of my home is so small, that no delay (or very, very little) for syncing purposes should be necessary.
As Stuart_W notes, this has nothing to do with wireless propagation times which are of course at the speed of light.

Any system which attempts to produce synchronous playback from multiple units connected via an asynchronous communication medium has to do (at least) two things:
- provide sufficient buffering to absorb the variations in packet transit times across the network
- exchange highly accurate timing information between the devices such that final playback can be synchronised

In an apartment, where neighbouring wireless networks are competing for bandwidth, it's all the more important to maintain buffering to prevent the receiving device being starved of data by a burst of interference. Sonos chose 70ms as the optimum solution, presumably sized to cope with packet jitter across a typical multi-hop SonosNet wireless mesh.

Although in theory it might be possible to collapse the delay out of the audio pipeline for a player which is operating Line-In stand-alone, it would likely be a lot of work for an outlier use-case. It would also produce playback discontinuities when other players were grouped or ungrouped.

I would say however, that big picture, I think this feature request (realistic or not) is related to the mix app integration requests (djay etc.), which is also niche, but there are real numbers there.
Yes, but those numbers are most probably a really tiny fraction of Sonos customers. Remember, we're talking here about the case where a user has a Line-In to a PLAY:5, CONNECT or CONNECT:AMP and wants to simply use it as a local amplifier/speaker. No network communications, no streaming, no multi-room: all the kinds of features which account for Sonos' market position and success.

The opportunity cost of addressing a niche (low latency / DJ mixing) of a niche (stand-alone play) of a niche (Line-In play) would potentially be huge, compared to all the other much more popular feature requests stacked up in Product Development's in-tray.

A beneficial side-effect of PLAYBAR using 5GHz to talk to its satellites is reduced interference. It clearly also helps that the connections are direct (hub-spoke) rather than over a mesh with an indeterminate number of wireless hops. PLAYBAR satellites can therefore afford to operate using a shallower (30ms) buffer.

Whilst there could be an argument for dispensing with such latency when PLAYBAR operates without satellites, the marginal gain presumably never warranted the extra development effort. Besides, for many the 30ms doesn't matter, and in some territories with bad broadcast lip-sync where video lags the audio the PLAYBAR latency can even be constructive.

Those using an external TV set-top box, Bluray/DVD, etc. who want tighter sync have the option of bypassing the TV and switching audio direct to the PLAYBAR.

No, because the system doesn't attempt to maintain sync between PLAYBAR and the other zones for the 'TV' source. The other zones are in sync amongst themselves, but delayed with respect to PLAYBAR.

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1966

I doubt very highly Sonos is going to enable this feature so that you can sync their devices with a competing product, while simultaneously decreasing the reliably of their streaming performance. But you never know . . . 😉