Don't buy the Sonos
I spent two and a half months trying to get this speaker to work. It has been replaced with a Bose bluetooth speaker.
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Userlevel 7
+20
No. It's against the T&Cs of the forum
But there really should be a section of the forum for folks who just want to vent non-specifically or threaten us with selling their systems 'if Sonos doesn't do X.'
I could then completely avoid that section of the forum and focus energy instead on those with constructive questions and contributions.
Your experience is extremely rare. The vast majority of people are happy with Sonos. I'm sure you contacted their support and followed all suggestions instead of simply posting your displeasure here without giving the support a chance to help. Sorry it didn't work out.
I don't care if it's rare or not, and I've been working with tech support for two months. I've done just about every permutation possible with channel changes and all of their other suggestions. Sonos simply didn't work for me, possibly because of latency issues with DSL. It's just not robust enough to handle DSL apparently, whereas streaming the same channel through my phone with the XM Sirius app (with bluetooth speaker) handles it just fine. Those with DSL may want to look elsewhere for their speaker solution.
PSA: It's not DSL.
I say that from a position of expertise:
I'm a Telecommunications Engineer with nearly 30 years experience, including substantial experience working on broadband distribution networks.
I have created designs for, done implementation and testing on, and provided support on major carrier broadband network projects for companies including Cable & Wireless, BT, Eircom, Portugal Telecom, Telekom Malaysia and others. I've studied DSL technology, experimented with it in labs, and seen it deployed in action across millions of users on the projects I've worked on.
At one point I was reporting to the Chairman of the DSL Forum.
I've also been on Sonos forums for more than a decade, and have seen and interacted with tens of thousands of Sonos users over that time.
If there was a fundamental issue or incompatibility with Sonos and DSL I would know about it.
There is not. There's never been a sniff of an issue that there might be and, knowing DSL technology as I do, there's no reason for there to be an issue.
ANYONE CLAIMING THERE IS A COMPATIBILITY ISSUE BETWEEN SONOS AND DSL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
Cheers,
Keith
I say that from a position of expertise:
I'm a Telecommunications Engineer with nearly 30 years experience, including substantial experience working on broadband distribution networks.
I have created designs for, done implementation and testing on, and provided support on major carrier broadband network projects for companies including Cable & Wireless, BT, Eircom, Portugal Telecom, Telekom Malaysia and others. I've studied DSL technology, experimented with it in labs, and seen it deployed in action across millions of users on the projects I've worked on.
At one point I was reporting to the Chairman of the DSL Forum.
I've also been on Sonos forums for more than a decade, and have seen and interacted with tens of thousands of Sonos users over that time.
If there was a fundamental issue or incompatibility with Sonos and DSL I would know about it.
There is not. There's never been a sniff of an issue that there might be and, knowing DSL technology as I do, there's no reason for there to be an issue.
ANYONE CLAIMING THERE IS A COMPATIBILITY ISSUE BETWEEN SONOS AND DSL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
Cheers,
Keith
Now we've straightened that out, there's lots of reasons why Sonos might not work properly on your setup. None are fundamentally related to using DSL.
For a start, DSL does not have a higher latency than other broadband technologies. In fact, it tends to have a lower latency than some consumer broadband services, like cable modem.
If you are getting high latencies then there is something fundamentally wrong with your service. For reference, I'm getting an average of just over 22ms ping time to Google DNS across my DSL service:
> ping -c10 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=13.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=24.8 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=96.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=60 time=13.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=60 time=14.1 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=60 time=12.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=60 time=14.1 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=60 time=13.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=60 time=12.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=60 time=12.3 ms
--- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9011ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 12.341/22.709/96.447/24.829 ms
I get similar times to www.sonos.com (on Akamai CDN):
> ping -c10 www.sonos.com
PING e7788.b.akamaiedge.net (104.105.51.189) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=12.9 ms
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=12.9 ms
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=3 ttl=57 time=13.0 ms
This, or near this, is what you should be getting.
If you are getting substantially higher than this, then there's something wrong with your DSL. It could, for instance, be congested. Are you, or anyone else in the house, streaming or downloading large files? This could max out the bandwidth which would cause high latency and packet loss which would definitely impact Sonos streaming.
I could also be the router you are using is faulty. There have, in the past, been issues with some FIOS services, not because there is anything inherently wrong with FIOS, but because the routers being supplied by the ISP were defective.
Alternatively, it could be issues with wireless coverage. Do you have issues when streaming from a local source, such as music files saved on a NAS or laptop?
Cheers,
Keith
For a start, DSL does not have a higher latency than other broadband technologies. In fact, it tends to have a lower latency than some consumer broadband services, like cable modem.
If you are getting high latencies then there is something fundamentally wrong with your service. For reference, I'm getting an average of just over 22ms ping time to Google DNS across my DSL service:
> ping -c10 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=13.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=24.8 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=96.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=60 time=13.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=60 time=14.1 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=60 time=12.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=60 time=14.1 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=60 time=13.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=60 time=12.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=60 time=12.3 ms
--- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9011ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 12.341/22.709/96.447/24.829 ms
I get similar times to www.sonos.com (on Akamai CDN):
> ping -c10 www.sonos.com
PING e7788.b.akamaiedge.net (104.105.51.189) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=12.9 ms
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=12.9 ms
64 bytes from a104-105-51-189.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (104.105.51.189): icmp_seq=3 ttl=57 time=13.0 ms
This, or near this, is what you should be getting.
If you are getting substantially higher than this, then there's something wrong with your DSL. It could, for instance, be congested. Are you, or anyone else in the house, streaming or downloading large files? This could max out the bandwidth which would cause high latency and packet loss which would definitely impact Sonos streaming.
I could also be the router you are using is faulty. There have, in the past, been issues with some FIOS services, not because there is anything inherently wrong with FIOS, but because the routers being supplied by the ISP were defective.
Alternatively, it could be issues with wireless coverage. Do you have issues when streaming from a local source, such as music files saved on a NAS or laptop?
Cheers,
Keith
I didn't come here for sympathy. I came to find to way to get my money back, but that's not happening. I can't sell it here, so that's out. I also came in hopes an experienced Sonos employee would come in take a fresh look but there don't seem to be any actual designated Sonos SME's here. Perhaps one is here and I missed him.
I am well aware that when people come to a forum it's usually with a problem, and I'm well aware of the + star Amazon rating. Thus I am aware that 99.9% aren't having any issue.
I am aware how bluetooth streams. All music is routed through my cell phone to the speaker via the bluetooth 2.4GHz band. If streaming from XM, it has to pass through the modem and broadcast via WiFi (2.6GHz) to get to my phone, at which time it rebroadcasts on the bluetooth band to the speaker.
As far as difference in sound quality with bluetooth my 58 year old ears can't tell the difference. All I know is I found a solution that works. That is #1. I don't care how new, interesting, cool, cutting edge any technology is. The sole requirement is that it must work and it must work all of the time. Sonos did not meet that requirement for me, whereas it obviously works for nearly everyone else.
Anyone else coming here and reading this thread will see that it is always wise to keep an eye on the calendar so the 30 day window doesn't pass by without being absolutely sure all problems are resolved. Also keep all boxes, packing materials etc. That was hard to do in this case because it took a while for the problem to surface then gradually got worse. By the time the problem really surfaced it was too late. I can probably try to send it to them to see if it's defective in which case they might at least replace it.
I am well aware that when people come to a forum it's usually with a problem, and I'm well aware of the + star Amazon rating. Thus I am aware that 99.9% aren't having any issue.
I am aware how bluetooth streams. All music is routed through my cell phone to the speaker via the bluetooth 2.4GHz band. If streaming from XM, it has to pass through the modem and broadcast via WiFi (2.6GHz) to get to my phone, at which time it rebroadcasts on the bluetooth band to the speaker.
As far as difference in sound quality with bluetooth my 58 year old ears can't tell the difference. All I know is I found a solution that works. That is #1. I don't care how new, interesting, cool, cutting edge any technology is. The sole requirement is that it must work and it must work all of the time. Sonos did not meet that requirement for me, whereas it obviously works for nearly everyone else.
Anyone else coming here and reading this thread will see that it is always wise to keep an eye on the calendar so the 30 day window doesn't pass by without being absolutely sure all problems are resolved. Also keep all boxes, packing materials etc. That was hard to do in this case because it took a while for the problem to surface then gradually got worse. By the time the problem really surfaced it was too late. I can probably try to send it to them to see if it's defective in which case they might at least replace it.
I have Playbar, Sub and Play1 pair. Streaming from Deezer and my home NAS has been flawless. Couldn't be happier.
Twp weeks without a single dropout or hitch.
Twp weeks without a single dropout or hitch.
Is there a 'want to sell' part of this forum?
But there really should be a section of the forum for folks who just want to vent non-specifically or threaten us with selling their systems 'if Sonos doesn't do X.'
I could then completely avoid that section of the forum and focus energy instead on those with constructive questions and contributions.
Yes!!!!! They can call it the "Or The Bunny Gets It" section! Make it so, Ryan S!
My contribution is that people with DSL internet may have problems and may want to look elsewhere for their listening solutions. I acknowledge that my life on occasion serves as a warning to others. While some are bent out of shape about my posting and have great luck with their systems, the fact is that months of working with tech support has gone nowhere, and the skipping problem was getting worse, not better. As soon as I did a test streaming the same XM channel through XM's app via my DSL, and then through headphones, then later a bluetooth speaker, I realized my DSL was perfectly up to the task of streaming XM.
I don't like the fact I had to dump Sonos, but nor do I like being out $300. I liked the system - when it worked. It is superior in many ways to bluetooth, but the fact remains it did not work for me. I want to listen to music, not deal with IT issues and tech support.
It is possible that my Sonos speaker and/or Boost are defective in some way, but tech support never indicated that.
I don't like the fact I had to dump Sonos, but nor do I like being out $300. I liked the system - when it worked. It is superior in many ways to bluetooth, but the fact remains it did not work for me. I want to listen to music, not deal with IT issues and tech support.
It is possible that my Sonos speaker and/or Boost are defective in some way, but tech support never indicated that.
When I ran a connection test of my DSL while loading a web page, I saw some latency, and the connection test would 'fail'. Once page was loaded, it would 'pass'. When more users are active, either in my home or elsewhere on the DSL loop, the skipping got worse. 9AM Sunday morning was better than 8PM on a weeknight. Plus I don't understand why it got worse with time. My DSL gives 10mbps down/1mbps up. But the fact that XM's app can stream it flawlessly tells me that the Sonos software just isn't handling the latency very well on my DSL. When I searched to find solutions for skipping, I found 5 posts complaining about it. Not a lot, but not zero. I am 'lucky' I guess.
"Get rid of DSL". Not an option. Not everyone lives in the city. "Data rate that is insufficient". Read my posting further up. Only 400kbps or so is needed for streaming audio on Sonos. My download speed is 10mbps. That's not the problem. The Boost was hardwired into wireless router, and there is no channel hopping on my wireless router.
What no one (including Sonos tech support) has explained, or attempted to explain, is why: 1) the problem got worse with time; and 2) why streaming the same XM channel through the same WiFi, through the same phone, into hard-wired headphones or my brand new wonderfully reliable Bose bluetooth speaker using SiruisXM's mobile app, works perfectly.
What no one (including Sonos tech support) has explained, or attempted to explain, is why: 1) the problem got worse with time; and 2) why streaming the same XM channel through the same WiFi, through the same phone, into hard-wired headphones or my brand new wonderfully reliable Bose bluetooth speaker using SiruisXM's mobile app, works perfectly.
"Another test to do, if you haven't got this setup already, is to wire one of the units and deselect wifi in the app settings. This will make the Sonos units form their own wireless mesh separate from your wifi." I did that. I spent another $100 on a Boost, and I had it hardwired in my wifi so the Sonos speaker had 'priority' - they walked me through all of that. It sort of worked at first, but got worse as time went on. We went through all of the checks for interference, changed channels through just about every permutation possible. The tech and I became so close we began to pick out drapes and furniture.
It's sad, I really liked the system for the first three weeks I listened to it. It has many inherent advantages. The trouble with all these gadgets and their associated software is that it's so easy to get caught up in fixing it, tweaking it, troubleshooting it, that the original purpose of it becomes almost completely obscured: listening to music. Everybody at home would listen and say: "it's skipping again...it did it again!" I'd go to the bathroom and upon my return my wife would give an update of how many times it skipped in the 3 minutes I was absent.
Sometimes I think the job of software people is to ruin lives and deliberately induce madness. I just want to spend time listening to music, not fixing broken-down shite or tracking down problems. I do that for a living in my lab; I don't want or need it after work, and once you lose my confidence, it's over.
I see I have earned the badge: "almost famous" (see right side of page). I'd gladly go away if I had my money back. Until I feel like I have gotten $300 worth of moaning and complaining in, I'll stay around a bit, or at least until I get booted. In the weeks it took to deal with tech support back and forth, all of the return warranties had lapsed, and from Sonos (or Amazon) there is no sympathy to be had. I also love it when people chime in and say: "mine works fine and always has since the Cretaceous Era." Great. Mine doesn't and I'm out $300.
It's sad, I really liked the system for the first three weeks I listened to it. It has many inherent advantages. The trouble with all these gadgets and their associated software is that it's so easy to get caught up in fixing it, tweaking it, troubleshooting it, that the original purpose of it becomes almost completely obscured: listening to music. Everybody at home would listen and say: "it's skipping again...it did it again!" I'd go to the bathroom and upon my return my wife would give an update of how many times it skipped in the 3 minutes I was absent.
Sometimes I think the job of software people is to ruin lives and deliberately induce madness. I just want to spend time listening to music, not fixing broken-down shite or tracking down problems. I do that for a living in my lab; I don't want or need it after work, and once you lose my confidence, it's over.
I see I have earned the badge: "almost famous" (see right side of page). I'd gladly go away if I had my money back. Until I feel like I have gotten $300 worth of moaning and complaining in, I'll stay around a bit, or at least until I get booted. In the weeks it took to deal with tech support back and forth, all of the return warranties had lapsed, and from Sonos (or Amazon) there is no sympathy to be had. I also love it when people chime in and say: "mine works fine and always has since the Cretaceous Era." Great. Mine doesn't and I'm out $300.
"...technical infrastructure at your location is most likely to blame". Then why does my iPhone stream music perfectly through the SiriusXM app to my Bose bluetooth speaker? That connection presumably goes from SiriusXM -> ADSL modem -> wifi -> phone -> speaker. Likewise, I can directly stream music stored on my phone flawlessly to the bluetooth speaker.
I am surprised that Sonos hasn't at least requested to look at the hardware.
I am surprised that Sonos hasn't at least requested to look at the hardware.
I am surprised that Sonos hasn't at least requested to look at the hardware.
Different transport protocol (near-field Bluetooth vs 2.4GHz multicast wifi). One is limited to close range from a single broadcasting device to a single recipient, the other designed for sending audio over larger distances to multiple recipients, resulting in totally different possible issues.
I appreciate that you are having trouble with yours, but when you wade in here with a thread titled "Don't buy the Sonos" and then make claims that Sonos is incompatible with DSL based on a sample size of 1 then:
a) you shouldn't expect much sympathy with such an aggressive approach which seems to be designed to antagonize
b) when several others say "mine works fine", that not only disproves your claims but, cumulatively, does so with a far higher sample size.
And, as I've pointed out, statistically there must be hundreds of thousands of people using Sonos systems with DSL without problems. Turning it around I could say "I love it when people have localised problems and suggest there's some fundamental flaw with Sonos kit. 100's of thousands of people, including most of us, don't. So why should we take any notice of you?"
Long story short: I very much doubt that Sonos has a general issue with DSL internet connections. You live in a rural area, the technical infrastructure at your location is most likely to blame. Enjoy the countryside.
I know DSL isn't to blame. This is especially true if it impacts local streaming. A ropey DSL connection could affect streaming content from Spotify or Internet radio, but it simply will not affect local content. Even if you disconnected your Internet connection, local content would work on Sonos. I know because I've done this many times in the past.
The fact that local content seems to be affected points to wireless issues. It may well be a neighbour has recently installed a new Wifi network which is drowning out everything else in the immediate area. It could be the OP's own wifi router needs the settings changing (although that seems unlikely given Sonos support should have gone through this). It could be the OP lives in a castle with foot-thick granite walls. It could be they have a faulty bridge...
There's a lot of potential issues here. DSL as a technology isn't one of them. And it doesn't look like his specific DSL connection is either.
Cheers,
Keith
The other reason I came here is for the email I just got, a request for me to contact a "Tier II engineer" at Sonos. 'Squeaky wheel' and all that. Hopefully he can help. Meanwhile I have music that streams flawlessly 😉
Hope you get it sorted.
Have you tried temporarily hardwiring your Sonos device to the router and trying it like that. Try it for diagnostic purposes. If it still has problems then I'm stumped.
Have you tried temporarily hardwiring your Sonos device to the router and trying it like that. Try it for diagnostic purposes. If it still has problems then I'm stumped.
I have been in contact with tier II support, but in the few days it takes to set up a callback, I set everything back up again. I downloaded the app, which was updated during the time I had it deleted. Now it works as it should. I had a couple of days where it would just stop (but no skipping) but rebooting the wifi every day seems to have taken care of that.
The tech went through my system remotely and found an extender that hops channels, and that is causing some interference. But he couldn't find anything terribly off, or enough to see the problems I was experiencing. The only real difference is the app, so maybe that was it.
The tech went through my system remotely and found an extender that hops channels, and that is causing some interference. But he couldn't find anything terribly off, or enough to see the problems I was experiencing. The only real difference is the app, so maybe that was it.
Generally my advice would be to buy another system. I have had a Sonos gen5 and a couple of gen1 units for the last couple of years and they have never really worked properly, dropping out speakers, forgetting half the system exists, not connecting with Spotify etc etc. In all seriousness it is an extremely user unfriendly and unreliable system and you are better off with other makes as we have found out. Great music however on the rarefied occasions you can actually get it to work.
Anyone else coming here and reading this thread will see that it is always wise to keep an eye on the calendar so the 30 day window doesn't pass by without being absolutely sure all problems are resolved.
The only thing wrong with that advice is that fixable problems can occasionally surface even after 30 days, or even after the warranty period as they did/do in my case. Such issues are part of any wireless home audio solution, and I am willing to stick my neck out and say that Sonos causes fewer than many others. But solving these as they arise is part of my excellent ownership experience. My way of doing this has been via posts here, and email escalation to Sonos when needed. Hasn't let me down yet, since 2011, even on the far side of the world in India.
I have Bose and other bluetooth speakers as well, as part of a horses for courses approach to solutions. I would not give up any of them for the other at this time. But for listening in the home/patio, Sonos rules.
I have an iPhone6 and DSL internet. As a test, I used the XM-Sirius app instead of the Sonos, and listened to it through simple headphones. Flawless. So, now the Sonos is gone, and replaced with a Bose bluetooth speaker, which is also flawless.
The expense was significant, near $300 total for the Sonos 1 speaker and then the Sonos Boost, both of which are out of return warranty by now, with the Boost being the newest at 6 weeks old. So, now I am stuck with $300 of useless electronic devices, which will have to eat or try and recover on eBay.
If you live in a flat apartment like me, wifi is becoming worse and worse caused by wifi interference.
I have put my router with my wifi after the provider router to have more control and 5Gz bandwidth.
But Sonos work on 2.4Ghz so it is still complicated, also considering that Sonos use the old g protocol.
The Sonos was given to me as a birthday gift from my wife back in July, and it worked well at first. Gradually, it started skipping, and to help I bought a Boost. It seemed to help at first but the skipping just got worse and worse. Eventually I couldn't even play music from my phone. Call after call with customer support didn't help. All of this has led to some distress for my wife - seeing me struggle with trying to get it to work for weeks on end.
I have an iPhone6 and DSL internet. As a test, I used the XM-Sirius app instead of the Sonos, and listened to it through simple headphones. Flawless. So, now the Sonos is gone, and replaced with a Bose bluetooth speaker, which is also flawless.
The expense was significant, near $300 total for the Sonos 1 speaker and then the Sonos Boost, both of which are out of return warranty by now, with the Boost being the newest at 6 weeks old. So, now I am stuck with $300 of useless electronic devices, which will have to eat or try and recover on eBay.
I have an iPhone6 and DSL internet. As a test, I used the XM-Sirius app instead of the Sonos, and listened to it through simple headphones. Flawless. So, now the Sonos is gone, and replaced with a Bose bluetooth speaker, which is also flawless.
The expense was significant, near $300 total for the Sonos 1 speaker and then the Sonos Boost, both of which are out of return warranty by now, with the Boost being the newest at 6 weeks old. So, now I am stuck with $300 of useless electronic devices, which will have to eat or try and recover on eBay.
Userlevel 7
+22
No. It's against the T&Cs of the forum
I'm happy Bluetooth works for you. Sonos is a far more complicated system that requires a significantly more stable network and internet connection, but even so, the vast majority of systems work fine (far better than most Bluetooth speakers). It doesn't get an overall 4.5+ stars rating on Amazon for nothing. But as the saying goes, horses for courses.
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