Era 300 vs Five

#melvimble

Yes i know bout the @melvimble-kinda notefy,but i use #melvimble…

I’m trying to justefy the money spend in my bedroom-set-up. Rather than buy Sonos stand for my Era100(witch is as i mention $300+) i will replace the Era100 over the Ikea Symfonisk Lamp Gen2. Just to have the Ikea Symfonisk Lamp on my bed-side table(replace the Era100 witch is been used as surround in my Beam Gen2&Sub Mini set-up). So in picture you see the Era100 on top of my lamp. Not ideal. When i get the Ikea Symfonisk Lamp,the exsisting lamp will be gone from the bed-side table.

I have the Philips Hue smart-bulb and it will go in the Ikea Symfonisk Lamp. 

It might be a decent analogy to compare stereo/atmos similar to comparing studio recording/live recording?  I don’t know.  I tend to like atmos and not like live recordings, so...I don’t know what that says.  Also worth noting that atmos music, IMO, requires a distinct listening position more than stereo.  

I find it interesting to compare stereo and atmos music. For me it’s like with food… different tastes like italian or asian food but both can be great. 😉

Stereo still is my favorite but sometimes it’s a great change to listen to atmos music. But the quality of atmos tracks imho differs a lot. Some tracks sound horrible and others are such a pleasure. 

#melvimbe

About my setup in my bedroom i think perhaps you misunderstand…Right now i had to put the Era100 on top of a lamp in order to have the speaker a little higher. But this is why i’m gonna replace this with the Ikea Symfonisk Lamp Gen2…i’ll let you see in a picture.

Or i could use $300+ for Sonos Orginal Stands and place them in each corner(the Era100)

I’m going to have to make an effort to find and listen to some Atmos music.

I’m a big Play 5 / Five fan but the 300s do open up something I’ve not really considered.

It was personal. /s

It’s going off into the weeds a bit, but I think, but the question of what’s better for music sources got more complicated with atmos music factored in.  For stereo sources, Fives are definitely better, but that gap is closed if you are in a smaller room and/or add in a sub or mini sub. 

The Fives don’t do atmos music though, so for atmos sources, era 300s are better. obviously.  Another drawback is when you group rooms for music.  If you group a room of Fives with an room with Arc (or Beam G2, or 300s) for music sources, every room will play stereo only.  the lowest common denominator wins in this case, pretty much by necessity as stereo and atmos tracks are typically completely different tracks.  If you group a room of 300s with a room with Arc, then you get atmos music in both rooms.

That said, if you are thinking of putting 2 Sonos rooms in the same physical room, one for music sources, and one for TV sources, using Era 300s for the music rooms doesn’t make any sense, IMO.  An Arc + surrounds is a better atmos music player than a pair of Era 300s at this point, mostly due to the additional surrounds.  It makes more sense to use Fives just for stereo music sources in that physical room, or when you intend to group with other rooms in the house that are only stereo capable (because Fives sounds better for stereo than Arc).

Yes, it gets complicated now with so many different options with different capabilities.  I’d say one of the biggest gaps in what Sonos offers right now is the ability to have an atmos capable home theatre with separate front left and right speakers, so that you get the best experience for atmos and stereo sources. 

As well, I think I’d like to see Sonos allow grouping of stereo and atmos capable rooms with each playing at their highest level.  I say ‘think’ because I’m not sure I’d want to get a downgraded mix of stereo rather than original recording of stereo.  Ideally, a music source track would contain both stereo and atmos versions that can be played together in sync...but I don’t know that even that would make sense as it would add a restriction and complication  in the production of these tracks...for what is ultimately a minimal requirement.

@BOL74

And to answer your last question… YES, you are loosing the strictly channel separation of any (not just Atmos) multichannel setup, because (as explained before) a grouped stereo setup in the front includes ALL channel information of the multichannel signal in a downmix. As a result you would hear rear channel information from the rear speakers but also as part of the stereo downmix in the front. Same with the center channel… from the middle out of the center speaker as part of the soundbar and also as part of the stereo downmix from the left and right. 

If you do like the video you watched and add Era 300s grouped with your Arc as front speakers, they will add zero, zilch, nothing, nada to the Atmos effects.  Matter of fact, the only thing they can do to the Atmos effects is ruin them by taking the Atmos channels which are supposed to bounce off the ceiling as height channels and mixing them into the fronts (along with all surround and front channels) which are aimed straight ahead.  That's just not how a surround sound track is meant to be heard no matter what a silly video says.

IMO is In My Opinion.

…for the moment i’m speachless. But that’s how it is…

If i inderstand you guys right…if i have a set of Era300’s i front of my Arc/Era300/Dual Gen3’s setup i some sort of loose the Atmos effect? 
Sorry bout this topic getting a little side-tracked here….and i’m a part of it,no worries. The real question was: Is the Five’s waaaaay better than the Era300’s for music listening. So now if i choose the Five&Era300 combo i will of course try the Five’s in front of my Home Cinema setup,but then i might be dissapointed and regret i did not went for the Era300’s. Yes,i get it… if Sonos wanted the comsumer to have free opertunety….. 

PS: what does IMO stand for? I might obay? Just as same as i call the Ikea Symfonisk Book Shielf speaker Ikea BS and from the moment someone was confused i ran an explaining in every tread i post…so how bout explain those tree letters please What comes around,Goes around.(Addis Black Widdow)

HI

@BOL74 

First I’m going to describe my setup in my Main Media Room, next in my Master Bedroom and finally in a Guest Bedroom.

Main Media Room (Video)

• LG 65 inch TV
• Arc plus Sub x 2 and Era 300 surrounds
• ATV 4K
• Panasonic Ultra HD Disc player

Main Media Room (Music)

• Five x 2 with Sub (Music Streaming)
• Project Debut Turntable (Sonos Edition) > Cambridge Pre-amp > Sonos Amp > Definitive D3 Speakers (Vinyl)

Master Bedroom (Video & Music) *

• LG 55 inch TV
• Arc plus Sub and Era 300 surrounds
• ATV 4K
• Sony Ultra HD Disc player

Guest Bedroom (Video & Music) *

• Sony Bravia 46 inch TV (circa 2014)
• Beam 2 plus Sub-Mini and Era 100 surrounds
• ATV 4K

 * Music is listed only because it’s possible when and if desired. At the end of the day video is the primary use.

The reason I provided the above information is to illustrate the versatility of Sonos. As you can see the Main Media room has multiple Sonos sub-rooms located in the same area; each with a specific purpose. The other rooms while primarily for video can also be used for music.

Sonos’ versatility is its Achilles Heel in that it's assumed one can do whatever they want (as a configuration) and still expect Sonos to perform as intended. Not True!! 

Ask yourself...would Sonos not market setting additional speakers upfront left and right of an Arc, Beam2 or Ray (if it were doable) to enhance the listening experience? I believe you are an intelligent person and the answer is therefore obvious. 

The videos espousing non-conventional Sonos setups for Home Theater (HT) are IMO hacks and rubbish. On second thought remove the “IMO” from the previous sentence as I believe others will agree that the videos are hacks and rubbish.

The human ear is a complex listening organ. Sonos HT setups reproduce the soundtrack of a movie as close to what the sound engineer intended using a single box that contains left, center and right channels. Now with the Arc and Beam2 reflected side channels for both and height channels with the Arc. Nothing less and most certainly not more (i.e. adding additional front left and right speakers).

However, if you want to spend your money on a Charlatan’s alchemy video (for Sonos HT) then by all means do so. On the other hand if you’d like keep your hard earned money for more practical use(s); then take mine and the advice of others in this thread. Stick with the intended setup for Sonos HT.

Final notes regarding the shape of your room. 

• If you have (or have access to) an iOS device you can use Trueplay to adjust the sound to your environment. Also know that Trueplay is not a silver bullet.  In some rare cases it can make the sound worst. 
• Also, having dual subs does not necessarily improve the low-end. Placement of a single sub and/or dual subs is critical. I would start with a single sub in various spots to determine the best location. Trueplay to determine if it helps. When you are satisfied introduce the second sub placing it in different locations to determine if it improves the overall low-end or not. A second sub in some instances can make the room too boomy.

Note: You can Trueplay each sub during the above process

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@BOL74

As your idea seems already to be manifested in your mind, I think you will try this anyway. 😉

Just be aware of the loose of real channel separation, but if it sounds satisfying to your ears in the end, that’s ok. 
Otherwise you have tested it and can open your mind for other alternatives. 😎