Thanks for completely breaking £2000 worth of Sonos gear

  • 15 October 2017
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Hi. May I ask you to check one thing please? In your Sonos controller, under About My Sonos System, do your speakers have WM:0 or WM:1 next to them? From your diagram, I would expect SonosNet to be running already, although I could be mistaken. If any has WM:0, SonosNet is running.
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I could be mistaken but I thought if the Airports are configured in Bridge Mode, they don't hand out IP addresses. Also, the setup worked well enough until the last update, and is now working again with the exception of the 2 play 1s in surround sound configuration.

I absolutely don't want to go down the route of satellite Wifi boosters again....Been there done that and it drove me potty. The way things are now means everywhere in the flat has a good wifi signal and internet connectivity
I would bet that you have 3 routers handing out IP addresses in your setup. The BT Hub, front wifi, and back wifi. I'm not network expert, but iI would bet that your devices are spreadout on different networks/subnets, which is why things don't seem to be connecting properly.

I have a similar setup in the sense that I have a router that just takes in the internet, and a second router that is responsible for wifi (just one for me). I found my sonos system was connecting to my 'internet only router', and therefore, my wifi router couldn't see it. I solved the issue by setting up my 2 routers in series, nothing connecting to the internet only router except the wifi router, and then everything connecting to the wifi router (through a switch if need be).

That would help you I think, but you still have two wifi networks. I recommend you get a single wifi network with satellites so that your entire home is comvered in one system. Greatly simplifies things.

Again, I'm not a network expert, but I'm sure that your 'exotic' network setup is making if diificult to troubleshoot.
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I don't mean this in any way to be snarky, but at this point I'm looking for a solution which doesn't require buying more Sonos equipment. The only bit of Sonos kit I had my eye on was a Subwoofer for the surround sound but obviously that's well on the back-burner given the current situation.

One thing I am considering is making another ethernet cable to connect one of the surround speakers to the hub in the back. I've been loathe to do so thusfar because the Playbase is already hooked up this way and should be suffucient. The Play 1 surround speakers are about 2-3 meters away from it so there's no reason it should be dropping out that I can see.
What I find most alarming is the amount of kit you have in a flat! Glad I'm not your neighbour :-)

I must be an exception because I don't have reserved IPs and yet have never had issues with conflicts. I am not sure if those little-white-box things that created a dedicated Sonos network are still in use, but if they are they are cheap and might solve such issues.


Just a minor correction: "Those little-white-box things" (Sonos Bridge or Sonos Boost) do not create a dedicated Sonos network. Plugging any Sonos speaker, Connect, or Connect Amp into Ethernet is what creates the dedicated Sonosnet network. The Bridge or Boost are available just to provide a way to make that Ethernet connection if none of the Sonos players are in a location where they can be conveniently wired to Ethernet. They have never been a requirement to activate Sonosnet.
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Just one I think, the BT Home Hub. The Apple Airports are configured in Bridge mode.
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How many DHCP servers are there?
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The Network Setup in our flat is a bit exotic. It's very long and constructed out of thick concrete and steal beams, built post war in 1956 as part of a purpose built block. Consequently, we've never been able to have a single consistent Wifi network serve the whole place. Wifi Boosters were a nightmare and temperamental, as were Powerline adaptors. So eventually I just built a really long ethernet cable and ran that down to the back of the flat, where it connects to a Netgear hub, which is in turn connected to another Apple Airport Express wireless router.

I've put together a network map to more clearly illustrate how everything is set up. As I said, the setup is exotic because we have a lot of stuff and I work from home doing CAD and 3D Graphic Design.....There's lots of technology about. The BT Homehub literally supplies an internet connection and nothing else. All Wifi is served via the Airports.

When I look on the home hub list of connected devices, the 2 play 1s in the back (which are the ones dropping out) are not visible. I presumed this is because they are connecting to the network via the Wifi at the back but the Airport app on the mac doesn't list them there either. The entire Sonos network connects to the Synology server in the front room via the front room Wifi network and password. I've always assumed this worked smoothly because the back is a sub network of the front, and can therefore access it without issue, and or the mesh network of speakers allowed the ones furthest away to communicate still. When I'm in the back and connected to that network, I can play music through the app on my phone or laptop without any problems. And Prior to the update, surround worked fine without any dropouts.

Anyway, here's the network map....I'd appreciate any advice on how to set things up more optimally although as I say, the current setup was fine until recently.

EDIT: The Play 5 on the map is also hardwired into the 16 port hub, I just forgot do draw the connection in.

What I find most alarming is the amount of kit you have in a flat! Glad I'm not your neighbour :-)

I must be an exception because I don't have reserved IPs and yet have never had issues with conflicts. I am not sure if those little-white-box things that created a dedicated Sonos network are still in use, but if they are they are cheap and might solve such issues.


Some routers have better recovery capabilities. Also, if the router doesn't reboot too often, you have no real problems. It is not a widespread problem, it just shows up for a dozen or so users when updating, because the rebooting of the devices triggers a slew of duplicates. Kind of a perfect storm thing.
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What I find most alarming is the amount of kit you have in a flat! Glad I'm not your neighbour :-)

I must be an exception because I don't have reserved IPs and yet have never had issues with conflicts. I am not sure if those little-white-box things that created a dedicated Sonos network are still in use, but if they are they are cheap and might solve such issues.
Geoff Simmonds,

Reserving IP addresses would be a solution to your network problems, especially if your router is prone to crashing or reboots. Once you reserve an address, it will be assigned to one and only one device, no matter the state of the router. It is not that difficult a task, if you can setup a WiFi username and password, you can reserve IP addresses. List the make/model of your router and we can help you out.

As to rebooting Sonos devices remotely, there is an undocumented feature for that. Open a browser and type the following:

http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:1400/reboot

Where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the IP address of the Sonos device. You can get this IP at Settings->About My Sonos System on the Sonos app. But hopefully, if you reserve IP addresses, you won't have to use this too often.
Geoff Simmonds,

Many users appear to set the IP addresses for all their Sonos products in their DHCP Reservation Table in the main router ... that tends to eradicate the type of matters you have been experiencing.

I chose to set all my 16+ Sonos devices starting from an IP address of 192.xx.xx.150 onwards and have never had a conflict issue since.

I also have fixed my routers 2.4 and 5 ghz channels rather than allowing it to auto-set them on reboot. I have checked that they are the least-used channels in my local neighbourhood by doing a WiFi Scan and finally I set my SonosNet channel to the least one being used too and keep it well separated from the channels set in my router.

If you do use a SonosNet connection, then I also recommend removing any stored WiFi credentials in the advanced settings of your controller. They are usually not needed when running your Sonos products with one device cabled directly to your router.

I certainly did not experience any connectivity issues whatsoever with any of my Sonos hardware arising out of the latest Sonos update.

On a slightly separate note, I do agree, the new controller App does need some additional cosmetic work, but I think Sonos have acknowledged they are still continuing its development and personally speaking I don’t really see it as a show-stopper... it’s not caused me any issues and I have seen more advantages than disadvantages.

So my suggestion is to scan and discover the best channels to use and set your IP addresses in your router's reservation table and hopefully all will then be well... you just need an hour or so, set aside, to sort these matters.
Hello Geoff ... if you have the time (and energy) try to find out how to assign fixed IP addresses on your router, as it should prevent future problems.
The research needed to do this one time task will pay off by obtaining an environment that remains stable through all future updates, so this is highly recommended. IP reservation needs to be done for every Sonos component including the devices that host the controllers.
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Hello Geoff ... if you have the time (and energy) try to find out how to assign fixed IP addresses on your router, as it should prevent future problems. I have done this with all of the 'permanent' equipment on my home network, including PCs, phones, tablets, TVs, printers - and of course SONOS speakers. That way conflicts are avoided between all of my different devices.
Good luck
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Thanks for the suggestions. This morning I did as suggested and switched literally everything off - Routers, speakers, the lot. Then I switched the routers on first, then the speakers room by room. It seems back to normal with the exception of the surround, which the jury is still out on. It seems to take a few seconds to kick in and drops out a bit at first. It did settle down for the 20 minutes I sat watching the tv and listening for drops but time will tell how things bed in again.

I appreciate how some of this is out of Sonos' control but it's a nightmare when it happens. I switched to Sonos from Airplay for these reasons....I got so fed up every few weeks of having to switch everything off and on again, if you have speakers in every room it gets tedious. It hasn't been as bad with Sonos but every few months I need to at least switch off the speakers. I guess it's just the slightly chaotic nature of being in a Wifi dense area (there's tons of Wifi networks around me).

Maybe in a future update, Sonos could build in a reset feature on the app which reboots the speaker or even the whole network of speakers and which perhaps then are assigned new IP's by the router. It would at least save a lot of hassle going around the flat unplugging things.
I would reboot the controller devices too. They could be experiencing IP conflicts, especially if the reboots of the Sonos units seemed to work. Refreshing the entire network will flush them all out.
Geoff,

One thing that you didn't mention, that I'd recommend highly, is a reboot of your router while all of the speakers are turned off/unplugged. A reset of IP addresses might help some of the issues you're reporting, and just turning off the speakers doesn't quite do it, as the data is also stored on the router.

And definitely go with the diagnostic, when you can. There's a wealth of information in it that can help Ryan and his cohorts help you a lot, more than those of us speculating on the situation based on the data we've been provided.
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I'd like to apologise unreservedly for being a petulant and annoying "something or other" yesterday. I'd spent the previous 3 hours battling with the Sonos setup in the flat which was working fine before the update and which absolutely wasn't afterwards. I'm afraid nerd rage got the better of me and I feel somewhat embarrassed. Apologies to anybody I may have offended which is quite likely given the shouty nature of my first post the sardonic tone of my subsequent ones.

That said, I'm still quite unhappy with the status quo. After powering everything down last night and switching on this morning, all my speakers are visible and work, although the controller app is not as responsive as it was in terms of changing the volume and muting / un-muting rooms. But most annoying of all is the fact that the surround sound is awful....It drops out constantly and is not practically useable.

@Ryan S, I'll have a look tomorrow at submitting a diagnostic. I can't spend any more time right now on it as other tasks beckon, along with a general lack of enthusiasm to tinker further.
I am always amazed at the smug people who insist that something that worked perfectly well before an update and now doesn’t is somehow pure coincidence.... ..what caused the problem then?..the wind?...bit like the guy that drove into the back of me last week...apparently the dented bumper i had afterwards that was a spooky coincidence....seems to me it’s not to much to ask that something that's advertised as rock solid and no drop outs should meet that ....at least once in a while....

It is not smugness, it is years of experience with what happens to a small number of folks after an update and what works to fix it.

What causes these problems it is most often duplicate IP addresses. What makes these IP duplicates show up is the update process, which entails a reboot of each Sonos device, causing it to request a new IP. If your router is in a bad state where it's table of previously assigned IP addresses is lost due to a reboot or power failure, the Sonos requests for new IPs can result in a series of duplicate IP addresses being issued. So while the "cause" of these duplicates may be the update process, the actual software is not at fault, nor could Sonos do anything to prevent the bad state of your router's IP assignment table.

Same thing with the other problems mentioned by the Sonos representative above, a reboot of the Sonos system may cause the router to switch channels, but that too is neither a flaw in the Sonos software, nor is it anything Sonos could prevent. Ditto if you are running more than one DHCP server.

Luckily there are permanent fixes to all of these, reserve IP addresses in your router, set your WiFi to a fixed range of channels, and eliminate multiple DHCP servers by configuring one of your network devices as a router and the rest as wireless access points
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I am always amazed at the smug people who insist that something that worked perfectly well before an update and now doesn’t is somehow pure coincidence.... ..what caused the problem then?..the wind?
Though the wind could actually be causing issues, as it can have an effect on wireless performance, usually issues that come up after an update are caused as a result of the Sonos players restarting on the network.

The most common causes of post-update issues are routers that assign duplicate IP addresses on reboot, or wireless devices doing a channel scan at the time of restart and deciding that the wireless channel Sonos was on is now clear, and switching to use that one. When Sonos comes back up, suddenly the once clear wireless is now no longer clear. A third common cause of problems after an update is that there were problems, to begin with, and Sonos had been chugging along without knowing about it. The most likely case here is in a double NAT situation, where you have two DHCP servers on the network and Sonos was all connected to one of the two, but during the reboot, some players got caught up on the second one.

The reason the community starts with recommending reboots on the network devices is because that will often solve the issue. It will fix the first one above, potentially the third one, and possibly could the second, but that's hard to say.

@Geoff Simmonds, I'd be happy to take a closer look at your setup if you're still having trouble. Are you currently seeing some of your players? If so, could you submit a diagnostic from your Sonos system and reply back with your confirmation number? Any details you can provide would be great to help narrow down what's happening.
I am always amazed at the smug people who insist that something that worked perfectly well before an update and now doesn’t is somehow pure coincidence.... ..what caused the problem then?..the wind?...bit like the guy that drove into the back of me last week...apparently the dented bumper i had afterwards that was a spooky coincidence....seems to me it’s not to much to ask that something that's advertised as rock solid and no drop outs should meet that ....at least once in a while....You might care to note that my original reply did not suggest coincidence. In fact, has anyone suggested coincidence in this thread? Beyond that, I won't be rising to your bait.
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I am always amazed at the smug people who insist that something that worked perfectly well before an update and now doesn’t is somehow pure coincidence.... ..what caused the problem then?..the wind?...bit like the guy that drove into the back of me last week...apparently the dented bumper i had afterwards that was a spooky coincidence....seems to me it’s not to much to ask that something that's advertised as rock solid and no drop outs should meet that ....at least once in a while....
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@Meezer - thanks for telling me how great you thiink Sonos are. Sadly, this is scant consolation right now and I'm frankly exhausted after several hours of trying to get everything working again. I'm powering everything down and going to bed. If it doesn't get solved tomorrow, the lot goes on ebay.

I'm delighted for everyone here who doesn't have a problem, really.
My first reaction is to simply ignore an aggressive post but here goes anyways.

If everyone was having the same difficulties as you are this would be serious indeed. My system is probably as complex as yours yet works well with the latest updates. It would therefore appear your issue might be particular to your setup.

When I have run into a problem over the 6 years I have used Sonos products, I have found Sonos technical support excellent at figuring out what the issue was and helping me resolve it. Rather than going online and "yelling" at everyone, I suggest you try them.

As to the design of the app or the feature content of an upgrade, simply referring to it as a "dog's dinner abomination" is not, in my opinion, particularly constructive or useful feedback. I have found that Sonos do value their customer's input, so maybe a bit more specificity in the appropriate forum section as to suggested likes or dislikes would be more productive.

I hope your system is back up and working in short order.
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Chicks: Thanks for the suggestions. Already, one Play 5 in the front room is connected via ethernet as well as the soundbar in the family room.

Could you tell me how I assign static IP addresses to each speaker? I can't find anything in the Sonos settings so is it something I have to do through the router?