I am trying to find straight comparison's between the various Sonos and Heos speakers. Ignoring the apps, lawsuits, and preference of appearance and instead focusing strictly on sound quality, does anyone know of where to find some good comparisons between the products or maybe have done comparisons of their own?
Below are a few basics as best I understand or have compared:
Sonos One v. Heos 1 - Most seem to give the Sonos One a slight edge in sound quality.
Sonos Play 3 v. Heos 3 - Neither really seems to have an edge.
Sonos Play 5 v. Heos 5 - Most seem to give the Play 5 a slight edge in sound quality.
Sonos Play 5 v. Heos 7 - A vast majority seem to give the Heos 7 the easy edge here. It seems to be highly rated all around.
Sonos PlayBar (w/ sub) v. Heos HomeCinema - Neither really seem to have an edge.
Sonos PlayBar (w/ sub) v. Heos Bar (w/ sub) - Reviews that compare these are hard to find but between the lack of HDMI on the PlayBar and the raw specs of the Heos Bar, it seems to be the better pick. A few stores will tell you the same.
Does anyone have links that support/refute the above? What are your personal experiences?
Have the specs for the new PlayBar/PlayBase leaked?
Thx.
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However, NAD sells the BlueOS card for $399, so even at $350, a Sonos card would be slightly cheaper. At $99, though, it would be a no brainer add-on, but would need a lot of sales to be profitable. I'm guessing we'll see a card within a year or two, but who knows?
For me, the speaker designs are the biggest thing holding Sonos back. There needs to be a larger variety of sizes and styles. I would love to see a Play:7. The design of the Play:3 and Play:5 is very off putting from a visual perspective.
HEOS just doen't have the feel of a long term player in the market with a strong user base.
As much as I am irritated with at Heos right now, I feel a reply is warranted.
Sonos is the market leader yes, but Heos is second with something like 17% compared to Sonos's 50(ish)%. Heos has also been around longer than any of the other competitors in whole home wireless audio. If (arguably) Sonos started the trend, Heos was second to the game and has tried to fill in the holes left by Sonos. Their parent company, Denon, is one of the oldest technology companies in the world (founded in 1910) and is highly regarding in the audio community. Denon was acquired a year or so ago by Sound United, one of the largest tech companies in the world. In short, they are much larger than Sonos and could buy Sonos if they really wanted to. Now that the legal case between Sonos and Denon is settled, it is highly unlikely that Heos is going anywhere.
It is true that Denon is not the greatest at communicating with the public. This is one thing that Sonos has and still does very well. Even if Denon wanted to communicate with the public, between the acquisition by Sound United and the Sonos lawsuit, there are plenty of reasons why they might be apprehensive about communicating openly with the public. That said, I doubt we'll see Denon get much better at communicating, as this would require a major corporate philosophy shift.
The upcoming "Works with Sonos" addition to Onkyo/Pioneer amplifiers and receivers eliminates whatever small advantage Denon (and Yamaha) may have had over Sonos. Sonos does, however, need a much smaller and less expensive Connect replacement, or better yet, a card that can be slipped into a slot on Onkyo/Pioneer (and other) receivers.
However, NAD sells the BlueOS card for $399, so even at $350, a Sonos card would be slightly cheaper. At $99, though, it would be a no brainer add-on, but would need a lot of sales to be profitable. I'm guessing we'll see a card within a year or two, but who knows?
However, NAD sells the BlueOS card for $399, so even at $350, a Sonos card would be slightly cheaper. At $99, though, it would be a no brainer add-on, but would need a lot of sales to be profitable. I'm guessing we'll see a card within a year or two, but who knows?
Userlevel 7
+22
In all honesty - HEOS looks like a decent system. The thing that scares me the most about it is that there is not a large user base (not even any type of online discussion on) and there seems to be very little communication via Denon on the future of the system. Seems just to closed off to me. I mean Sonos isn't exactly great on the communication side but you do know their general direction - and there is discussion on Sonos all over the internet (from AV sites, to Reddit, to this Forum). Denon is all crickets.
HEOS just doen't have the feel of a long term player in the market with a strong user base.
HEOS just doen't have the feel of a long term player in the market with a strong user base.
Update: As of 5/25/18 @ 8:25 AM PT, still no update to the Heos App restoring functionality. No updates at all.
Looking at some of the major quotes from the case:
“[p]art of D&M’s plan to make Sonos-copy products included reproducing Sonos’s dynamic-grouping, synchronization, and group-volume control technology, which D&M internally lauded time and again.”
“[t]he infringing HEOS features are software-based and … D&M allegedly could have easily and readily implemented alternative synchronization and volume control features that would apparently avoid infringing Sonos’s patents.”
“D&M continued to sell HEOS products that infringe the ‘258 and ‘949 Patents, and continued releasing new marketing materials and promoting the HEOS features that infringe those patents.”
“D&M’s HEOS Apps included a nearly identical group volume control interface as can be found in Sonos’s patented App. …[t]he HEOS device’s synchronization mechanism is identical to the mechanism claimed and described in Sonos’s 258 Patent.”
Does anyone have the details of the 258 and 949 patents?
At a glance, the above implies that that the main issue in the App is volume control and sound grouping. Sound grouping was not changed within the product, and for good reason, if they removed that feature they would have killed their own product as sound grouping is essential. The main thing that is missing right now is volume control of all speakers using one slider. Instead you have to change the volume of each speaker independently, which is inconvenient and annoying.
This may seem small but really is an essential feature of a whole home audio system.
“[p]art of D&M’s plan to make Sonos-copy products included reproducing Sonos’s dynamic-grouping, synchronization, and group-volume control technology, which D&M internally lauded time and again.”
“[t]he infringing HEOS features are software-based and … D&M allegedly could have easily and readily implemented alternative synchronization and volume control features that would apparently avoid infringing Sonos’s patents.”
“D&M continued to sell HEOS products that infringe the ‘258 and ‘949 Patents, and continued releasing new marketing materials and promoting the HEOS features that infringe those patents.”
“D&M’s HEOS Apps included a nearly identical group volume control interface as can be found in Sonos’s patented App. …[t]he HEOS device’s synchronization mechanism is identical to the mechanism claimed and described in Sonos’s 258 Patent.”
Does anyone have the details of the 258 and 949 patents?
At a glance, the above implies that that the main issue in the App is volume control and sound grouping. Sound grouping was not changed within the product, and for good reason, if they removed that feature they would have killed their own product as sound grouping is essential. The main thing that is missing right now is volume control of all speakers using one slider. Instead you have to change the volume of each speaker independently, which is inconvenient and annoying.
This may seem small but really is an essential feature of a whole home audio system.
Userlevel 7
+22
Yea I figured when I saw that - they wanted to clear up current lawsuits before the IPO.
We don't know that Denon can actually put anything back - they may just have settled and are paying for the remaining issues.
We don't know that Denon can actually put anything back - they may just have settled and are paying for the remaining issues.
Curious just before the IPO
As of 5/21/18 @ 7:40 AM PT, the functionality that was removed from App has not been restored. If it is going to be restored I imagine there will be an update by the end of the week. Programmers don't typically work on the weekend unless it is any emergency. The announcement was made on Friday, so we'll see.
Obviously, Denon is paying Sonos for infringement, and subsequently licensing the technology they stole. Also, does their "direction with HEOS is unchanged" statement mean it is unchanged from before or after they stripped some of the patent infringing functions from their app?
It seems the patent infringement case Sonos vs Denon is closed?
Denon vs. Sonos reaches settlement, HEOS line will go on unchanged
Denon says its 'direction with HEOS is unchanged' after resolving its Sonos patent infringement case, which began four years ago.
https://www.cnet.com/news/denon-and-sonos-reach-settlement-over-wireless-speaker-patent-case/
Denon vs. Sonos reaches settlement, HEOS line will go on unchanged
Denon says its 'direction with HEOS is unchanged' after resolving its Sonos patent infringement case, which began four years ago.
https://www.cnet.com/news/denon-and-sonos-reach-settlement-over-wireless-speaker-patent-case/
Userlevel 7
+26
I just rescued the thread Atari posted, it was caught by our automated spam filter and held for moderation review, nothing sinister I assure you.
Have a good weekend everyone!
Have a good weekend everyone!
Userlevel 5
+12
Um, this thread is a comparison against a competitor’s product... There are hundreds of similar threads here, as a simple search will show...
I know. Then why was it rejected? You’re stating the obvious. I was playing devil’s advocate as to the reason for deletion. I suggested a few reasons. The list was not exhaustive.
It was most likely this horrible InSided forum sortware. It’s really bad, appears to have been built from scratch by folks who had zero previous experience with forum software. There are several threads on it, with thousands of posts,
Um, this thread is a comparison against a competitor’s product... There are hundreds of similar threads here, as a simple search will show...
Well the earlier poster indicated that it has to be profanity or personal attacks to get a takedown. Would be nice though if some insight was offered.
Userlevel 5
+12
Maybe it was discussion of the litigation? As the writup showed Sonos in a relatively favourable light then I can’t see what else might be ‘wrong’ with it! If comparisons are against competitive prosucts are not allowed it does not say much about a company’s confidence in its products!
I’d have thought a heos owner coming onto a sonos forum praising its products after taking the time and money to invest and writing an seeminly unbiased ‘review’ would be just the positive feedback a company would seek. Very odd that it went a 2nd time without explanation. It made a nice change from 90% of posts complaining about broken devices, unreliable performance and a lack of a certain feature!
Or maybe it was the tongue cheek request for free products to review. ?
I’d have thought a heos owner coming onto a sonos forum praising its products after taking the time and money to invest and writing an seeminly unbiased ‘review’ would be just the positive feedback a company would seek. Very odd that it went a 2nd time without explanation. It made a nice change from 90% of posts complaining about broken devices, unreliable performance and a lack of a certain feature!
Or maybe it was the tongue cheek request for free products to review. ?
Thank you. Somebody doesn't seem to like my posts I guess. I wouldn't call it Pulitzer work but tried to be concise and fair.
Userlevel 5
+12
Atari, the post was there 2 mins ago. Well written too! Gave it a thumbs up!
So...comparison posted again, comparison disappeared again. This time, I even saw that people viewed the page, then poof.
I created a new thread under wireless speakers. It referenced back to this thread but since the focus was on the Sonos One and sound quality, it seemed logical to create it in its own post. It was rather lengthy, probably around a thousand words or so.
Userlevel 7
+20
Anyway, the gist of of it was: Round 1 goes to the Sonos One. It sounds a little better, looks a little better, and the App seems to be better. The only negative I noticed is that it doesn't seem to get as loud as the Heos 1.
Sorry the review is so short, still a bit miffed that the prior post didn't pass muster for whatever reason.
Hi Atari_Prime,
As far as I can tell your post wasn't deleted by us. Generally we only moderate posts which violate the forum rules, things like profanity or personal attacks. Posts are often caught up in the spam filter here, but I don't see a post by you in there either. Did you post the review in this thread or another?
So...I posted a rather lengthy comparison between the Heos 1 and the Sonos One yesterday. For reasons unknown, it was taken down by the moderators. Not really sure which is better, no forum at all or a forum that takes down comments it doesn't like.
Anyway, the gist of of it was: Round 1 goes to the Sonos One. It sounds a little better, looks a little better, and the App seems to be better. The only negative I noticed is that it doesn't seem to get as loud as the Heos 1.
Sorry the review is so short, still a bit miffed that the prior post didn't pass muster for whatever reason.
Anyway, the gist of of it was: Round 1 goes to the Sonos One. It sounds a little better, looks a little better, and the App seems to be better. The only negative I noticed is that it doesn't seem to get as loud as the Heos 1.
Sorry the review is so short, still a bit miffed that the prior post didn't pass muster for whatever reason.
Atari Prime,
Let us know what you think of the play 3 v. heos 3 and play 5 v. play 5. Sonos one v. Heos 1 I have heard in a home environment and like the sonos a little bit better. But not much on the larger speakers in a home environment. Just curious.
Enjoy the playing with the home comparison.
Let us know what you think of the play 3 v. heos 3 and play 5 v. play 5. Sonos one v. Heos 1 I have heard in a home environment and like the sonos a little bit better. But not much on the larger speakers in a home environment. Just curious.
Enjoy the playing with the home comparison.
Userlevel 7
+22
My favorite speaker is my Play:1 bluenote. It blends in like artwork on my dining room hutch.
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