Question

Sonos affected by Wireless Access Point hardware change

  • 21 August 2020
  • 62 replies
  • 1337 views
K

I recently swapped out my 2011 access point in my bedroom used for WiFi there, and I am seeing some Sonos anomalies.

In the bedroom I have a Boost that is also root bridge, wired back to the main router in the common area, that has a Connect Amp also wired back to the same main router. I was using Airport Express in the bedroom, ethernet wire connected to the other ethernet jack on the Boost using the switch feature on Boost, to successfully obtain high speed WiFi in the bedroom - with the single band AEX set to work in access point mode, creating a 5 GHz network there. No issues with Sonos then, using either the phone or the Mac in the bedroom for control.

I replaced said AEX using a dual band TP Link access point as a drop in replacement. Now, at times, the Connect Amp disappears from the Controller as well as from the Matrix. Getting it to reappear needs a Connect Amp reboot, that works for some time.

I can’t see any logical reason for this - and when I brought the AEX back for a test, the problem disappeared.

Any reason why Sonos/TP Link are not playing nice all the time? The bedroom Sonos is supplied wirelessly from Boost, and there is no issue with that unit. Nor are other bedroom units like Firestick/Echo Show affected by the change.

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62 replies

K

I guess reading the manual before purchase is your best bet. But not even then you could be sure what features they secretly implemented.

I will for sure be more awake when I have to replace the 850 units, hopefully years from now.

I expect my Apple Time Capsule base station to be a casualty soon as well, bought in 2011. The good thing now that I have run ethernet wires around the home for Sonos, and now leveraged these for better WiFi coverage via the AEX/850, is that any ordinary/cheap router with normal range will do - I don't need the expensive kinds with antennas sprouting all over or the mesh type.

Of course, Sonos compatibility is something to be alive to then as well.

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +14

I guess reading the manual before purchase is your best bet. But not even then you could be sure what features they secretly implemented.

K

A trouble free week with Sonos, with the WA850 working all the time; the one glitch must have been something else that troubled Sonos, seeing that it has not surfaced again.

I have bought and kept another 850 unit for the future seeing how well it works in its assigned role of WiFi access point wired back to the main router, also being excellent value for money. And obviously, for not troubling the wired Sonos system as the RE205 definitely did.

As far as I can tell, the trick here is the manual option offered in the 850 interface to turn off the DHCP server; an option missing in the 205. So, the obvious question: for anyone wanting to buy an access point to add to a home with a Sonos presence, how does one know in advance that such an option is offered for the device?

K

Yes. The tp links, in both cases had reserved IP addresses, also confirmed in their management apps, distinct to the ones assigned to Sonos units.

As of now, no more issues after the last solitary one 48 hours ago, after moving over to the wa850 unit.

buzz

Kumar,

Are you checking for duplicate IP addresses?

K

@jishi :As a networking layman, I had thought that WiFi access points will be simple things to do a simple job - and this was borne out by the AEX doing just that in access point mode - with router mode set to off -  without troubling Sonos.

Clearly this is not quite the case, but the WA850 has not troubled Sonos since my last post a day ago, so I am hoping that the one glitch after it replaced the RE205 was a one off caused by something else.

Finger crossed for now! 

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +14

I think these repeater/access point hybrids is often plagued with weird behaviors since they are cheap and are trying to solve problems that shouldn’t exist (think, backup DHCP server, wat?)

I had a Linksys RE2000 which is a repeater/bridge that had some weird problem where it would start blocking DNS queries from wired devices (when working as a bridge), which shouldn’t even occur. A correct access point shouldn’t even act on anything but layer 2 traffic.

I’m running my home network with 2 dedicated access points (TP-link Omada, EAP245) and a separate router, but even with a wireless router, I’ve had no problem running the EAP245 in addition to a wireless router. For bonus points, the EAP245v3 (not v1, but those are discontinued) also has 2 ethernet jacks, which means you could wire it in reverse (first EAP245, then your Sonos player) to get gigabit to the access point. 

The learning curve for these are higher though, and you need more experience setting them up. They are also a bit higher price point at around $80-$90. But, the basic principle for me stands, an access point should be as dumb as possible. The only reason they need an IP to begin with is for administrative purposes only, in all other aspects they should just transparently forward traffic between wifi and wire lan. Most consumer equipment fails on that part.

K

Also: I invoked the matrix only because I saw the unit missing in the controller.

All of today, there is nothing wrong in Sonos with the 850 having remained on all the time. So perhaps something else disturbed Sonos - these things can confuse by having more than one reason at times. 

K

When it was missing in the Matrix, the Connect Amp was missing in the Sonos Controllers as well - both in the Mac and the Android. And when the other wired unit was powered on and it booted, both became visible in the Controllers.

If this happens again, I will see if the unit responds to the kind of request you suggest, but I suspect this wasn't just a matrix polling delay seeing the Controllers reflect it.

ratty

A glitch again with the wired Connect Amp, and a strange one. I had disabled the WiFi on it, and this morning it was missing in the Matrix although the port LEDs were flashing as usual. I then turned on another wired unit and the Connect Amp reappeared on the Matrix with it. After some time I turned off the other unit, and Connect Amp is still on the Matrix, with WiFi now enabled to see how things fare in that status.

I shall also take a look at the 850 log and see what is there.

The /support/review request goes to one device, which polls the others before collating the results. It’s not unusual for it to run out of patience. If you want to see if a specific unit is responding try http://x.x.x.x:1400/status. This contains the raw data compiled by /support/review.

K

The 850 has not been turned off for over 24 hours now, and times are correctly set. The recent glitch happened some time in the last 12 hours, and for what its worth, this all that the 850 log shows:

The black mask shows the reserved IP address/subnet mask for 850, which has another question to ask per below.

I notice that the mods have deleted these IP addresses in the past in this thread as personal information - but is the reserved IP address disclosure - addresses that go 10.x.y.z - personal inasmuch as disclosing it will subject my device to be vulnerable to access from outside my network? I think not...

K

A glitch again with the wired Connect Amp, and a strange one. I had disabled the WiFi on it, and this morning it was missing in the Matrix although the port LEDs were flashing as usual. I then turned on another wired unit and the Connect Amp reappeared on the Matrix with it. After some time I turned off the other unit, and Connect Amp is still on the Matrix, with WiFi now enabled to see how things fare in that status.

I shall also take a look at the 850 log and see what is there.

K

Yes. I have ordered another to keep as a spare before they disappear.

ratty

Yes, in my experience they’re useful little units. Stable, quick to boot, and they run cool too. 

K

@ratty almost two days down the line, Sonos and WA850 are coexisting fine and my mostly wired Sonos system as as stable as a wired one ought to be.

Thanks for the guidance...again:-).

K

WA850 turned up a day earlier, and it is a case of so far so good.

Perhaps one reasons why it behaves differently is that there is an option for DHCP between Auto, On, and Off. So Off can be user selected once IP address reservation is done in the Time Capsule. 

Early behaviour also suggests that from within his smallish room, it is coping with the delivery of HD streams to my son’s Firestick, so there is that box also hopefully ticked.

What the RE205 gains by having different internals with respect to the DHCP aspects if that is indeed the cause for it to disturb Sonos, is a mystery to me. I can't see its dual band feature to be a reason.

K

Reverting back to topic: since one 2011 AEX is getting glitchy, the basic reason to look for alternatives - we switched back to RE205 for my son’s room with no overt connection to Sonos except wiring back to the core network. And within 5 minutes, my balcony wired to core network Sonos stopped playing.

So there is something definitely not suited to Sonos with RE205.

Hopefully, the WA850 due to come on Saturday, will do better with Sonos.

ratty

I suppose I should also do the IP address reservation in the router and set the IP selection in the TP Link menu to static IP as I did for the RE 205?

Better practice would be to assign a static IP outside the DHCP pool. There’d then be no need to reserve it.

K

Fair enough, just double checking on the one I will add to my cart. It isn't that expensive either, so there is that. 

I suppose I should also do the IP address reservation in the router and set the IP selection in the TP Link menu to static IP as I did for the RE 205?

ratty

I already said that I’ve used up to three of such APs with Sonos without issue.

Some wired to a router, some wired to wireless Sonos units.

K

@ratty:

So if I bought the attached, it can be set up wired back to the router as a 2.4 GHz WiFi access point and it would not disturb Sonos performance?

 

 

ratty

In more than one place, I am seeing that the ethernet port on the 850 works to wire an end device like a computer to a 850 wirelessly connected back to a router. Perhaps there has been a version change that has brought this about. The available user guides online no longer have the section you have quoted in them.

They do. https://static.tp-link.com/2020/202004/20200422/1910012794_TL-WA850RE_UG_REV7.0.1.pdf

In extender mode the port on that unit functions as a wireless Ethernet bridge, as does just about every such device.

K

That probably refers to when the device is in extender mode.

It’s always been sold as an extender or access point. You’d have to work hard to convince my three TL-WA850RE access points that they’re not so. In fact the user guide has a section “4. 2. 1. To Set Up the Extender as an Access Point”.

 

In more than one place, I am seeing that the ethernet port on the 850 works to wire an end device like a computer to a 850 wirelessly connected back to a router. Perhaps there has been a version change that has brought this about. The available user guides online no longer have the section you have quoted in them.

In any case, if I was to try another TP product it would be the  855 RE, picture posted above, that is definitely an access point and also more convenient to install directly into a mains socket.

But would it leave Sonos undisturbed? That is what I don't know.

K

@craigski The TP was set to Auto Off once it was assigned a reserved IP address in the router, but as a dynamic IP. The TP does not have any way to turn Auto Off to just off. And once ratty suggested earlier in this thread that the IP be made static in the TP network menu, one hopes that this issue was addressed, but who knows for sure?!

And the channel was set to 1 on 2.4 and auto on 5. Sonos is on 11.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

WiFi bandwidth at 2.4GHz must be pretty compromised then.

I live in an apartment complex as is common here 

 

Just a thought, is the channel set to auto on APs? If so, it could be changing and/or forcing channel change on other devices (that you have no control over) that are in the apartment complex that could interfere with Sonos.

 

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