@Corry P has presented an answer from the Sonos engineers that the audio behavior of the Era 300’s is as to be expected. So until Sonos reverses that decision all of the Sabre rattling in this thread is pointless, IMO.
The pinned reply to this thread does not accurately describe the audio behaviour of the Era 300s provided in the Reddit Q&A yesterday, where it was confirmed the Era 300 inner speaker (tweeter & woofer) is not disabled when used as surrounds.
First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)
So lets get to the problem then :D
NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER
for better understanding watch this VIDEO
This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.
So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.
I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion
I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.
DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT
Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.
I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV KTrueHD Atmos] and MP4 PEAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.
If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.
Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?
And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.
Have a nice day
To All
My apologies that I have to quote the OP in this manner as the OP is entitled to their opinion. However, IMO the OP regardless of their credentials should not have taken it upon themselves to unequivocally characterize their opinion as a “Problem” that Sonos should fix.
Humans have a tendency to automatically lend credibility to people who are supposedly an authority on a subject. In some instances the credibility bestowed is warranted as others in the specific field with equal credibility have given their approval to the additional findings. You don’t just cut your leg off because one physician says it’s necessary…to the contrary you would seek a second opinion.
Granted the OP goes on to present videos of sound tests they have chosen to justify their claim. Others in the community have allegedly made their own test using test sounds. However, the fault in doing so is that no one has a baseline of sound to say that the supposed lack of sound from the inner drivers is a fault. Furthermore there is no standardized sound test that everyone uses over another or has access to.
I mentioned in another post to this thread that I watched the movie Twisters and was thoroughly impressed with the Atmos sound in my space. That’s not to say that you watching the same movie will achieve the same enjoyment; as the accuracy of the Atmos “bubble” is heavily dependent upon the parameters of your space. That said one’s opinion as to how Atmos sound is reproduced in their space is not an inditement of a faulty design of the Era 300’s.
Your next comment may be that how is it so many in the Community are indicating the same issue. That’s a fair statement. However, I ‘d ask how many who claim they have the same issue may have been unconsciously convinced there is an issue based upon what the OP has presented as “gospel” because of their credentials that were presented at the start of their post.
@Jamie A has presented an answer from the Sonos engineers that the audio behavior of the Era 300’s is as to be expected. So until Sonos reverses that decision all of the Sabre rattling in this thread is pointless, IMO.
There has been talk of making the volume adjustment for the inner drivers a feature request. The potential issue with such is that more issues may be created than resolved. One has to remember that the Era 300’s act in unison with the soundbar to create a balanced listening experience. Tweaking one aspect of sound has a direct impact on other sound parameters. I believe that Sonos has determined that some adjustments should be limited in scope or not offered at all. You might call such as “Big Brother” exercising too much control. However’ I would ask…”do you control everything in your life or are some factors limiting or beyond your control”.
No need to keep beating a dead horse so I’ll leave it to you to make your own decision as to how you move forward (or not) regarding the Era 300 inner drivers.
Yeah no. Rear channels don’t route to height channels. That’s why height channels exist. Hearing a car from the rear left or right shouldn’t give a height sensation.
regardless, the older videos sonos had explaining how the era 300’s work clearly is not the way the 300 works now. Wheres the new video explaining this change aside from everyone raising their pitch forks to force Sonos to explain what happened?
@Corry P has presented an answer from the Sonos engineers that the audio behavior of the Era 300’s is as to be expected. So until Sonos reverses that decision all of the Sabre rattling in this thread is pointless, IMO.
The pinned reply to this thread does not accurately describe the audio behaviour of the Era 300s provided in the Reddit Q&A yesterday, where it was confirmed the Era 300 inner speaker (tweeter & woofer) is not disabled when used as surrounds.
Sonos is acting like they’re doing us a favor by heavily reducing the volume of the rear channels and making the height channels more active.
@Corry P has presented an answer from the Sonos engineers that the audio behavior of the Era 300’s is as to be expected. So until Sonos reverses that decision all of the Sabre rattling in this thread is pointless, IMO.
The pinned reply to this thread does not accurately describe the audio behaviour of the Era 300s provided in the Reddit Q&A yesterday, where it was confirmed the Era 300 inner speaker (tweeter & woofer) is not disabled when used as surrounds.
FYI, I corrected and removed @Corry P and replaced with @Jamie A as he was the one who brought the information. 
@Corry P has presented an answer from the Sonos engineers that the audio behavior of the Era 300’s is as to be expected. So until Sonos reverses that decision all of the Sabre rattling in this thread is pointless, IMO.
The pinned reply to this thread does not accurately describe the audio behaviour of the Era 300s provided in the Reddit Q&A yesterday, where it was confirmed the Era 300 inner speaker (tweeter & woofer) is not disabled when used as surrounds.
FYI, I corrected and removed @Corry P and replaced with @Jamie A as he was the one who brought the information.
*inaccurate information
Hey, guys. Is there any updates on this topic? I have an Arc + Era300, and recently noticed that the Atmos rear sound is being played by the height driver. Literally, if a person is talking from the back in a movie, I can hear them from the ceiling. Lol, if a car is driving in the back, I hear it like it's coming from the ceiling. It messes up the sound terribly. That's ridiculous. I read this whole thread then, and the company's responses. I can confirm that this is definitely a bug and not an intentional feature "fix" in any way. Disappointed.
Hey, guys. Is there any updates on this topic? I have an Arc + Era300, and recently noticed that the Atmos rear sound is being played by the height driver. Literally, if a person is talking from the back in a movie, I can hear them from the ceiling. Lol, if a car is driving in the back, I hear it like it's coming from the ceiling. It messes up the sound terribly. That's ridiculous. I read this whole thread then, and the company's responses. I can confirm that this is definitely a bug and not an intentional feature "fix" in any way. Disappointed.
Sonos already confirmed “this is not a bug” as dumb as it may be.
Hey, guys. Is there any updates on this topic? I have an Arc + Era300, and recently noticed that the Atmos rear sound is being played by the height driver. Literally, if a person is talking from the back in a movie, I can hear them from the ceiling. Lol, if a car is driving in the back, I hear it like it's coming from the ceiling. It messes up the sound terribly. That's ridiculous. I read this whole thread then, and the company's responses. I can confirm that this is definitely a bug and not an intentional feature "fix" in any way. Disappointed.
Sonos already confirmed “this is not a bug” as dumb as it may be.
Yeah, I can see it now. As someone who has experience in acoustics I can confidently say that this is exactly a bug. If a monster is running at you from behind and you can hear it from the ceiling, lol. Waiting for a fix
We’re all waiting but tbh i’m not holding my breath. So disappointed by how Sonos has handled this
Really wish they would just add volume sliders in the app for:
soundbar surround drivers
soundbar height drivers
Era 100/300 surround drivers
Era 100/300 rear surround drivers
Era 300 height drivers
also level out volume for rear surround drivers since it is so low now.
problem solved.
If you really want to do this much yourself, I'm not sure Sonos is the right product for you.
In my opinion, Sonos means ease of use for mostly sound-illiterate users. That does mean Sonos makes the choices and not the user. More choices clutters upo the app and gives most clienst a bigger chance to screw their sound up.
If you really want to do this much yourself, I'm not sure Sonos is the right product for you.
In my opinion, Sonos means ease of use for mostly sound-illiterate users. That does mean Sonos makes the choices and not the user. More choices clutters upo the app and gives most clienst a bigger chance to screw their sound up.
it’d be really really difficult for the user to screw up more than Sonos did
@Corry P do we have any updates on the situation? Is this “feature request” being worked on?
Hi @superlollo
I have recently been conversing with a senior engineer in order to compile feedback received about the Arc Ultra’s sound mixing and we will be reporting it back to the audio team - you are being heard!
However, the “issue” mentioned in this thread with the inward-facing drivers not playing is as intended, as mentioned in the pinned post:
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
So, I cannot say that this will change, but I also cannot say that there won’t be a setting added in the future - I just don’t know. In my own opinion, I think it unlikely.
I hope this helps.
Hi @superlollo
I have recently been conversing with a senior engineer in order to compile feedback received about the Arc Ultra’s sound mixing and we will be reporting it back to the audio team - you are being heard!
However, the “issue” mentioned in this thread with the inward-facing drivers not playing is as intended, as mentioned in the pinned post:
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
So, I cannot say that this will change, but I also cannot say that there won’t be a setting added in the future - I just don’t know. In my own opinion, I think it unlikely.
I hope this helps.
It helps, although it’s not what I wanted to hear. The inner drivers did work, so it’s quite baffling that they were disabled recently. I mean ERA 300s are sold as 6 driver speakers and currently only 3 are working….sounds like deceiving marketing to me
it’s especially bad for all of us who have an open plan room. My left surround is quite close to a wall, the right one is more than 12ft from the closest wall. Because of this, even after advanced trueplay, the sound from the left surround is always much louder than the right one. This could be solved if we had the option to have sound come from the inward facing drivers, or at least a way to manually control the left/right surround volume. I’m sure a lot of people have similar room layouts
Hi @superlollo
I do get your point, though I have a single Era 300 and all of it’s drivers are working (when playing spatial content), as would they if had a stereo pair of 300s. The Era 300 is not designed to solely be a surround speaker.
Certain drivers are disabled when a pair of Era 300s are added as surrounds, but that is to optimise the sound stage - would you prefer it if we enabled all the drivers and it sounded much worse as a result?
The inner drivers did work, so it’s quite baffling that they were disabled recently.
As far as I am aware, the behaviour of these drivers has not been changed. I am currently seeking clarification on the behaviour of the inner drivers, however, as someone on the Audio team said the following on Reddit, which disagrees with the above quoted text in blue from my documentation:
The inner speaker (tweeter + woofer) IS NOT disabled on an Era 300 surround when bonded to any Sonos soundbars with Dolby Atmos support (Arc Ultra, Arc, and Beam Gen 2). The inner speaker is primarily responsible for rear surround channel content, however, the rear surround channel is also mixed into the up-firing tweeter with the rear height channel.
The inner speaker is notably lower yin] volume than the up-firing speaker due to the direct path of sound propagation to the main listening position compared to the indirect path from the up-firing tweeter. The choice to share rear surround content between the inner speaker and up-firing speaker was made to improve the immersive and environmental quality of the rear surround sound stage.
I shall update you here when I hear more, but it seems most likely that the documentation will be altered (so please don’t take the parts in blue above as gospel).
it’s especially bad for all of us who have an open plan room. My left surround is quite close to a wall, the right one is more than 12ft from the closest wall. Because of this, even after advanced trueplay, the sound from the left surround is always much louder than the right one. This could be solved if we had the option to have sound come from the inward facing drivers, or at least a way to manually control the left/right surround volume. I’m sure a lot of people have similar room layouts
I think this is a fair point, and I have already passed on some suggestions to this effect. There are definitely recommended ideals for a Home Theatre setup, and only rarely will all of them be met.
Please note, as hinted to in the Reddit post, that some drivers - especially those that rely upon reflections, will be too easy to accurately locate (something you don’t want to do) if their levels are too high. I noticed being able to hear height channel content played by the Arc Ultra no longer sound as if it were coming from above once I set the height channel setting too high (more than about +6).
I hope this helps.
Hi @superlollo
you are being heard!
I don't want be rude but after reading the message it seems like the sonos still didn't hear us..
Hi @superlollo
I do get your point, though I have a single Era 300 and all of it’s drivers are working (when playing spatial content), as would they if had a stereo pair of 300s. The Era 300 is not designed to solely be a surround speaker.
Certain drivers are disabled when a pair of Era 300s are added as surrounds, but that is to optimise the sound stage - would you prefer it if we enabled all the drivers and it sounded much worse as a result?
The inner drivers did work, so it’s quite baffling that they were disabled recently.
As far as I am aware, the behaviour of these drivers has not been changed. I am currently seeking clarification on the behaviour of the inner drivers, however, as someone on the Audio team said the following on Reddit, which disagrees with the above quoted text in blue from my documentation:
The inner speaker (tweeter + woofer) IS NOT disabled on an Era 300 surround when bonded to any Sonos soundbars with Dolby Atmos support (Arc Ultra, Arc, and Beam Gen 2). The inner speaker is primarily responsible for rear surround channel content, however, the rear surround channel is also mixed into the up-firing tweeter with the rear height channel.
The inner speaker is notably lower yin] volume than the up-firing speaker due to the direct path of sound propagation to the main listening position compared to the indirect path from the up-firing tweeter. The choice to share rear surround content between the inner speaker and up-firing speaker was made to improve the immersive and environmental quality of the rear surround sound stage.
I shall update you here when I hear more, but it seems most likely that the documentation will be altered (so please don’t take the parts in blue above as gospel).
it’s especially bad for all of us who have an open plan room. My left surround is quite close to a wall, the right one is more than 12ft from the closest wall. Because of this, even after advanced trueplay, the sound from the left surround is always much louder than the right one. This could be solved if we had the option to have sound come from the inward facing drivers, or at least a way to manually control the left/right surround volume. I’m sure a lot of people have similar room layouts
I think this is a fair point, and I have already passed on some suggestions to this effect. There are definitely recommended ideals for a Home Theatre setup, and only rarely will all of them be met.
Please note, as hinted to in the Reddit post, that some drivers - especially those that rely upon reflections, will be too easy to accurately locate (something you don’t want to do) if their levels are too high. I noticed being able to hear height channel content played by the Arc Ultra no longer sound as if it were coming from above once I set the height channel setting too high (more than about +6).
I hope this helps.
I have a large room setup where outward firing speakers reflecting off a wall works well on one side but on the other side the wall is 30 feet away so I really don’t get any reflections.This makes the outward firing speaker on that side sound totally different. I understand this may not match what the sound engineers think is optimal but it sounded great before (even with just an arc instead of an arc ultra). Luckily I had enough space behind me to move the 300s more directly behind the listening position (because the 300s farther outside/beside the seating due to expecting the inward drivers to sound the same as they did wouldn’t make sense anymore). This is why when I called support I asked if I could revert the firmware to a prior version from October - not allowed even though that flexibility seems like it should be possible.
It seems that there is some miscommunication between the engineers and other staff -- was it a bug, purposeful change, or not change at all. For those of us that have spent a lot of money on these systems it would be nice to get more than a one sentence answer from you or Keith. Honestly a video explaining and physically showing where sounds are coming from in different scenes/audio tests would be much more useful in explaining why the system is doing what it is doing currently.
Realistically if you just allowed us to enable/change some basic settings with the speakers (individual tweeter and woofer enable/disable and volume settings). Or if you gave us a way to select our room layout/spacing to enable/disable certain expected reflections and then the software enabled/disabled certain drivers. This could allow the user to clearly see what changes would happen by selecting a certain room layout. In my example above it make more sense to have the 300s off to the side and angled toward the seating arrangement to bounce off a back wall - instead of now having the 300s directly behind the seats. With the rear surround ‘mostly’ going from the upper driver now I might as well just have them come from the front firing driver for certain sounds directly behind and this would allow that flexibility.
I understand many of the users are fine with just using trueplay and assuming that it is the best sound that the system can do. From the sound of it many of us in this thread would be interesting in tinkering or even testing the system with different options.
Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.
Maybe the new update has something to offer..
Just updated to 82.3-60160 without any problems, but haven't noticed any improvements/changes yet.
Maybe the new update has something to offer..
Just updated to 82.3-60160 without any problems, but haven't noticed any improvements/changes yet.
If the era 300’s still sound the same as what this thread describes then clearly it’s not the update we’re waiting for.
Is this an Android release? I’m on iOS, and several ‘release numbers’ back, and just checked, there are no updates available to me from the iOS store.
Is this an Android release? I’m on iOS, and several ‘release numbers’ back, and just checked, there are no updates available to me from the iOS store.
That's just for the speakers
Ah, thanks, not a client release, a firmware release. I’m not home for three more days, can’t check my speakers. ;)
Hi @superlollo
I do get your point, though I have a single Era 300 and all of it’s drivers are working (when playing spatial content), as would they if had a stereo pair of 300s. The Era 300 is not designed to solely be a surround speaker.
Certain drivers are disabled when a pair of Era 300s are added as surrounds, but that is to optimise the sound stage - would you prefer it if we enabled all the drivers and it sounded much worse as a result?
The inner drivers did work, so it’s quite baffling that they were disabled recently.
As far as I am aware, the behaviour of these drivers has not been changed. I am currently seeking clarification on the behaviour of the inner drivers, however, as someone on the Audio team said the following on Reddit, which disagrees with the above quoted text in blue from my documentation:
The inner speaker (tweeter + woofer) IS NOT disabled on an Era 300 surround when bonded to any Sonos soundbars with Dolby Atmos support (Arc Ultra, Arc, and Beam Gen 2). The inner speaker is primarily responsible for rear surround channel content, however, the rear surround channel is also mixed into the up-firing tweeter with the rear height channel.
The inner speaker is notably lower yin] volume than the up-firing speaker due to the direct path of sound propagation to the main listening position compared to the indirect path from the up-firing tweeter. The choice to share rear surround content between the inner speaker and up-firing speaker was made to improve the immersive and environmental quality of the rear surround sound stage.
I shall update you here when I hear more, but it seems most likely that the documentation will be altered (so please don’t take the parts in blue above as gospel).
it’s especially bad for all of us who have an open plan room. My left surround is quite close to a wall, the right one is more than 12ft from the closest wall. Because of this, even after advanced trueplay, the sound from the left surround is always much louder than the right one. This could be solved if we had the option to have sound come from the inward facing drivers, or at least a way to manually control the left/right surround volume. I’m sure a lot of people have similar room layouts
I think this is a fair point, and I have already passed on some suggestions to this effect. There are definitely recommended ideals for a Home Theatre setup, and only rarely will all of them be met.
Please note, as hinted to in the Reddit post, that some drivers - especially those that rely upon reflections, will be too easy to accurately locate (something you don’t want to do) if their levels are too high. I noticed being able to hear height channel content played by the Arc Ultra no longer sound as if it were coming from above once I set the height channel setting too high (more than about +6).
I hope this helps.
Cory,
it doesn’t make sense to have the rear speakers be very low to the point where they sound non-existent.
it was never like this before, ever. Sides, rears, upwards all worked together in a good way. All could be heard discretely.
No reason to have the heights essentially taken over for the rears even if your engineers feel they know what sounds best. This is the first anyone’s ever heard rears should route to the height channels to make things sound better. Idk what planet your engineers are from but it’s not earth.
Ah, thanks, not a client release, a firmware release. I’m not home for three more days, can’t check my speakers. ;)
Something they could add to the Web App!
