Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
25034 views

First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

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Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

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G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@106rallye i think giving Sonos the benefit-of-the-doubt at this point is misguided. After the continuous missteps that have encompassed almost all of 2024.

It is a massive issue that a surround sound product is released without verifying that the correct channels are playing out of the correct drivers. That should be at the top of the list when it comes to regression testing.

Totally agree that the issue is massive, we’re talking about tens of thousands of Era 300 users who are getting a wrong atmos experience. I’m amazed that so many people, including reputable Sonos youtubers like Peter Pee, haven’t noticed this. It’s noticeable in movies and it’s glaringly noticeable when playing test tunes (and a reviewer should do that)

I have a pretty critical ear and it really isn’t that noticeable unless you sit really close to the surround speakers or are playing a test tones video and placing your ear right next to the inside driver. 99.9% of users who are using the Era 300s as surrounds aren’t going to use test tones to test their system. And it’s not like the rear surround audio is completely missing. It’s just being played out of a different part of the speaker.

I have been testing my Arc Ultra + Dual Subs + Era 300s setup pretty critically for the last few days and it still sounds great IMO.

But I agree that there is no excuse for the Sonos team to miss this. Things like this, and the app situation, show that attention to detail is not one of Sonos’ strengths.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

S

superlollo

Enthusiast II

@106rallye i think giving Sonos the benefit-of-the-doubt at this point is misguided. After the continuous missteps that have encompassed almost all of 2024.

It is a massive issue that a surround sound product is released without verifying that the correct channels are playing out of the correct drivers. That should be at the top of the list when it comes to regression testing.

Totally agree that the issue is massive, we’re talking about tens of thousands of Era 300 users who are getting a wrong atmos experience. I’m amazed that so many people, including reputable Sonos youtubers like Peter Pee, haven’t noticed this. It’s noticeable in movies and it’s glaringly noticeable when playing test tunes (and a reviewer should do that)

I have a pretty critical ear and it really isn’t that noticeable unless you sit really close to the surround speakers or are playing a test tones video and placing your ear right next to the inside driver. 99.9% of users who are using the Era 300s as surrounds aren’t going to use test tones to test their system. And it’s not like the rear surround audio is completely missing. It’s just being played out of a different part of the speaker.

I have been testing my Arc Ultra + Dual Subs + Era 300s setup pretty critically for the last few days and it still sounds great IMO.

But I agree that there is no excuse for the Sonos team to miss this. Things like this, and the app situation, show that attention to detail is not one of Sonos’ strengths.

it IS very obvious when playing test tones, the left/right surround sounds literally twice as loud as the left/right rear, which in turn sounds identical to the left/right rear height.

agree it’s not super obvious with movies

T

Train_dude

Avid Contributor I

I wonder how it would sound when there is rear surround and height surround going off at the same time 😭

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@106rallye i think giving Sonos the benefit-of-the-doubt at this point is misguided. After the continuous missteps that have encompassed almost all of 2024.

It is a massive issue that a surround sound product is released without verifying that the correct channels are playing out of the correct drivers. That should be at the top of the list when it comes to regression testing.

Totally agree that the issue is massive, we’re talking about tens of thousands of Era 300 users who are getting a wrong atmos experience. I’m amazed that so many people, including reputable Sonos youtubers like Peter Pee, haven’t noticed this. It’s noticeable in movies and it’s glaringly noticeable when playing test tunes (and a reviewer should do that)

I have a pretty critical ear and it really isn’t that noticeable unless you sit really close to the surround speakers or are playing a test tones video and placing your ear right next to the inside driver. 99.9% of users who are using the Era 300s as surrounds aren’t going to use test tones to test their system. And it’s not like the rear surround audio is completely missing. It’s just being played out of a different part of the speaker.

I have been testing my Arc Ultra + Dual Subs + Era 300s setup pretty critically for the last few days and it still sounds great IMO.

But I agree that there is no excuse for the Sonos team to miss this. Things like this, and the app situation, show that attention to detail is not one of Sonos’ strengths.

it IS very obvious when playing test tones, the left/right surround sounds literally twice as loud as the left/right rear, which in turn sounds identical to the left/right rear height.

agree it’s not super obvious with movies

Even when the Era 300s are working correctly, the outside firing drivers have always been louder than the inside firing drivers (when being used as surrounds). This has been my primary complaint with the speakers since the day they were released. I wish Sonos gave us the option to adjust the outside and inside driver levels separately.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

K

kenshinesca

Contributor I

Even when the Era 300s are working correctly, the outside firing drivers have always been louder than the inside firing drivers (when being used as surrounds). This has been my primary complaint with the speakers since the day they were released. I wish Sonos gave us the option to adjust the outside and inside driver levels separately.

At one point they had fixed the surround and rear surround not being the same volume but now it seems to be out of whack again unfortunately.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Has the sonos team prioritized getting a fix out? It’s an easy issue to reproduce/replicate so I can’t imagine the engineers are completely dumbfounded on what the issue might be or have an idea of how bad this problem is to correct.

AjTrek1

To All

Reproducing the issue (assuming the engineers have done so) is only the first step to a resolution. Upstream and downstream affects of a fix must be taken into account so that the resolution of a specific issue doesn’t cause problems elsewhere. So be patient.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Reproducing the issue (assuming the engineers have done so) is only the first step to a resolution. Upstream and downstream affects of a fix must be taken into account so that the resolution of a specific issue doesn’t cause problems elsewhere. So be patient.

Yeah I don’t mean to be impetuous but my $3k system is broken out of the box. It’s tough not be frustrated.

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

Reproducing the issue (assuming the engineers have done so) is only the first step to a resolution. Upstream and downstream affects of a fix must be taken into account so that the resolution of a specific issue doesn’t cause problems elsewhere. So be patient.

Yeah I don’t mean to be impetuous but my $3k system is broken out of the box. It’s tough not be frustrated.

I understand your frustration, but Sonos is aware of the problem. They will fix it. But don’t expect it to be fixed on your preferred timeline. Meanwhile, enjoy your system. It still sounds great even with the rear surround audio playing from the wrong driver. Look forward to the day when the problem is fixed and the surround audio will sound even better.

Life is too short to get angry and impatient about ambient sound coming out of the wrong speaker driver.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Reproducing the issue (assuming the engineers have done so) is only the first step to a resolution. Upstream and downstream affects of a fix must be taken into account so that the resolution of a specific issue doesn’t cause problems elsewhere. So be patient.

Yeah I don’t mean to be impetuous but my $3k system is broken out of the box. It’s tough not be frustrated.

I understand your frustration, but Sonos is aware of the problem. They will fix it. But don’t expect it to be fixed on your preferred timeline. Meanwhile, enjoy your system. It still sounds great even with the rear surround audio playing from the wrong driver. Look forward to the day when the problem is fixed and the surround audio will sound even better.

Life is too short to get angry and impatient about ambient sound coming out of the wrong speaker driver.

Mmm thanks for downplaying my frustration. “Angry” - thanks for that. Appreciate your understanding our money went to something that doesn’t work correctly upon purchase. It will be fixed, sure. That is the equivalent of saying “I’m sorry” even though the damage has already been done. All good - I have faith the sonos acolytes will produce a cure to this acceptable mistake.

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