Hi,
I recall that after we got the LPCM update for the Arc, it was noticed by the community that 7.1 LPCM tracks were not being properly downmixed to 5.1 and the end result were missing channels. Is that still an issue today? If I have the Sonos app reporting LPCM 7.1 does that mean I will be missing 2 channels when outputing it to Arc, 2x Ones and a Sub?
Thanks
From my understanding of EDID, the ARC must be reporting itself as 7.1 capable to the TV, then the TV passes that down the line (Xbox, PS, Blu-ray player etc?), or the TV is misinterpreting the EDID data?.
Seems Sonos have problems now with 5.1 PCM, maybe due to tying to support 7.1 🤔.
The problem is not only regarding PCM unfortunately.
I suspect edid between sonos and LG is the problem.
LG CX, 2sl, arc and sub.
I diagnosed the issue by checking the Sonos App and realising I was getting Atmos delivered by Dolby Digital Plus via the Apple TV which ussually sends it as full Dolby Atmos over eARC. I also noticed the PS5 and Nintendo Switch were no longer sending MultiChannel PCM 5.1 and instead were sending Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 which is what the TV converts the audio to if it only has an ARC device connected. Toggling eARC off and back on is what fixed the issue in all cases.
Actually suprising that more people don’t talk about it on the Sonos forums as it’s a very well known issue over on AVS Forums and it appears to also be happening with a few different AVR’s. I assume most people here must never check the app and confirm what audio format they are getting.
Along those lines, have you noticed your A80J/A90J produce subtle popping noises when outputting LPCM from the Apple TV (via the Arc)? It seems to only occur with LPCM, and not encoded audio (Dolby/DTS). It isn’t loud, but more like a soft pop when switching audio codecs, turning the Apple TV off, etc. A great way to demonstrate the issue is browsing around Netflix, and allowing the previews/trailers to play. More often than not, an initial soft popping sound can be heard.
Sorry about the late reply, I’ve been on holidays for the last week.
There are lots of posts throughout this thread on eARC issues exactly like you and I have described in this thread. This applies to the A80J and A90J (Even if this thread is specifically about the A80J).
I diagnosed the issue by checking the Sonos App and realising I was getting Atmos delivered by Dolby Digital Plus via the Apple TV which ussually sends it as full Dolby Atmos over eARC. I also noticed the PS5 and Nintendo Switch were no longer sending MultiChannel PCM 5.1 and instead were sending Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 which is what the TV converts the audio to if it only has an ARC device connected. Toggling eARC off and back on is what fixed the issue in all cases.
Actually suprising that more people don’t talk about it on the Sonos forums as it’s a very well known issue over on AVS Forums and it appears to also be happening with a few different AVR’s. I assume most people here must never check the app and confirm what audio format they are getting.
Along those lines, have you noticed your A80J/A90J produce subtle popping noises when outputting LPCM from the Apple TV (via the Arc)? It seems to only occur with LPCM, and not encoded audio (Dolby/DTS). It isn’t loud, but more like a soft pop when switching audio codecs, turning the Apple TV off, etc. A great way to demonstrate the issue is browsing around Netflix, and allowing the previews/trailers to play. More often than not, an initial soft popping sound can be heard.
Hi Everyone,
Well, this is embarrassing!
After some investigation, I’ve found that downmixing of 7.1 channel LPCM to 5.1 channel LPCM was indeed implemented on the Arc as a feature last year, but our literature wasn’t properly updated to reflect the change.
To be clear, the Arc does downmix 7.1 LPCM to 5.1, has done for some time, and we are working on updating our documentation to reflect the fact. Beam (Gen 2) has always supported LPCM and has always downmixed.
Thank you all for pointing this out to me so we can now make sure that this information becomes public. I’m sorry for the unnecessary confusion. I’ll post this in multiple threads.
This other issue with LG TVs is unrelated, but we’d very much like to get on top of it. We’ve requested the investigation of LPCM channels being played from the wrong speakers when an LG TV is involved, specifically when 7.1 channels are reported, and we will reach out to LG with details once we’ve gathered some solid evidence for them. Therefore, we’d very much appreciate it if anyone affected by this specific issue would visit this new thread I’ve made for gathering some details. Thank you.
Thank you very much for clarifying this here and in other posts. As a request going forward, I really do wish Sonos would reconsider their practice of generically describing bug fixes as only “Bug fixes and performance enhancements” in their release notes when it includes significant fixes that have been raised in multiple posts here over several months. It would go a long way to help avoid confusion like this in the future.
+18
Hi Everyone,
Well, this is embarrassing!
After some investigation, I’ve found that downmixing of 7.1 channel LPCM to 5.1 channel LPCM was indeed implemented on the Arc as a feature last year, but our literature wasn’t properly updated to reflect the change.
To be clear, the Arc does downmix 7.1 LPCM to 5.1, has done for some time, and we are working on updating our documentation to reflect the fact. Beam (Gen 2) has always supported LPCM and has always downmixed.
Thank you all for pointing this out to me so we can now make sure that this information becomes public. I’m sorry for the unnecessary confusion. I’ll post this in multiple threads.
This other issue with LG TVs is unrelated, but we’d very much like to get on top of it. We’ve requested the investigation of LPCM channels being played from the wrong speakers when an LG TV is involved, specifically when 7.1 channels are reported, and we will reach out to LG with details once we’ve gathered some solid evidence for them. Therefore, we’d very much appreciate it if anyone affected by this specific issue would visit this new thread I’ve made for gathering some details. Thank you.
I have been following and posting on the topic periodically for almost a year. I have an LG G1. I’m typically only affected by this when watching non-Dolby audio discs through my ub9000/PS5 or when playing games in surround on the Nintendo Switch. I have the Arc, two rear Ones, and a Sub.
I’m happy to do some diagnostics if it ever did come to that. Thanks again for your time.
I diagnosed the issue by checking the Sonos App and realising I was getting Atmos delivered by Dolby Digital Plus via the Apple TV which ussually sends it as full Dolby Atmos over eARC. I also noticed the PS5 and Nintendo Switch were no longer sending MultiChannel PCM 5.1 and instead were sending Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 which is what the TV converts the audio to if it only has an ARC device connected. Toggling eARC off and back on is what fixed the issue in all cases.
Actually suprising that more people don’t talk about it on the Sonos forums as it’s a very well known issue over on AVS Forums and it appears to also be happening with a few different AVR’s. I assume most people here must never check the app and confirm what audio format they are getting.
I do understand there is an obvious thematic link between 5.1 tracks being transformed into 7.1 tracks prior to arriving at the audio device, and 7.1 tracks being downmixed to 5.1 in the audio device, but these are technically very different - especially as the former is not something we can actually address.
As someone who has done a lot of looking into this issue and had an LG C7, LG CX, LG G1, Sony A8H, Sony A90J and Sony A80J I am well versed in this issue, Your comments to a lot of people in here are half correct, but aren’t really helpful as Sonos has not been overly clear on the issue, and in particular with LG - Sonos issues, neither LG or Sonos has ever really been clear with people where problems are happening. There is a real history of LG and Sonos not playing nicely together, going back to lip sync issues as well.
The LG CX and C1/G1 series have had the LPCM 7.1 issue with the Sonos Arc ever since LPCM support was added to the Arc. It appears the Arc is either not correctly advertising it’s LPCM support to the LG or the LG is not reading it’s capabilities properly as it sends a 7.1 signal whenever MultiChannel PCM is concerned. This is a dealbreaker as even though some people claim to not notice it, it messes the whole surround experience up.
The Sony A8H, A90J and A80J do not have this problem. The Sony’s and the Sonos appear to communicate their capabilities correctly and the Sony sends a MultiChannel PCM 5.1 signal correctly. The A80J/A90J have a seperate issue with the Sonos Arc in which the TV will randomly switch from an eARC connection to an ARC one, however this is infrequent, fixed by toggling eARC off and on in the TV settings and is nowhere near as detrimental to the listening experience as the LG LPCM 7.1 issue.
It needs to be made clear that this is specifically an issue between newer LG TV’s and Sonos if any progress is going to be made in resolving it.
Hi
Earlier, you mentioned that you don’t actually have surrounds. We tend to troubleshoot problems that customers are actually experiencing - it’s not that I’m trying to be dismissive here, but if I was to ask an engineer to do a suite of tests with various input devices and TVs for a particular problem, they’d want to see that all possible troubleshooting had already been done, and they’d want to see multiple diagnostic reports taken at various points throughout. They’d probably want video evidence too (if practical). Personally, I cannot do any such testing as I do not have a PS4/5, an LG TV or indeed a Sonos home theatre product (I’m working-from-home).
I do appreciate that you are doing the sensible thing and researching possible issues before buying surrounds. If more people had done as you are doing prior to buying the Roam, for example, there’d be less angry voices about how it doesn’t support being a part of surround sound. Sonos has an excellent Money-Back-Guarantee programme for just this kind of eventuality. I recommend you buy the surrounds and try it out - if you find a problem, ask for help. If help isn’t helpful enough, get your money back by returning the speaker - in the UK, you’ll get 100 days to try things out.
Incidentally, we’re still off-topic on this thread. As I mentioned, this thread is for 7.1 downmixing. I suggest you start a new thread if you want to talk about 7.1 being mis-reported in the Sonos app (if, in fact, that’s what’s actually happening - personally, I doubt it. It seems more likely that the TV or source is responsible). Further off-topic discussion here will have to result in this thread being closed so that searches stay relevant.
Edit: I do understand there is an obvious thematic link between 5.1 tracks being transformed into 7.1 tracks prior to arriving at the audio device, and 7.1 tracks being downmixed to 5.1 in the audio device, but these are technically very different - especially as the former is not something we can actually address.
Fair enough but would you be able to check out the other threads on this topic and perhaps see if you could get an update for the community? I don’t have surrounds but that doesn’t mean the sounds aren’t being handled incorrectly within the beam as it obviously plays back all 5.1 channels itself. Thanks.
+18
Hi
Earlier, you mentioned that you don’t actually have surrounds. We tend to troubleshoot problems that customers are actually experiencing - it’s not that I’m trying to be dismissive here, but if I was to ask an engineer to do a suite of tests with various input devices and TVs for a particular problem, they’d want to see that all possible troubleshooting had already been done, and they’d want to see multiple diagnostic reports taken at various points throughout. They’d probably want video evidence too (if practical). Personally, I cannot do any such testing as I do not have a PS4/5, an LG TV or indeed a Sonos home theatre product (I’m working-from-home).
I do appreciate that you are doing the sensible thing and researching possible issues before buying surrounds. If more people had done as you are doing prior to buying the Roam, for example, there’d be less angry voices about how it doesn’t support being a part of surround sound. Sonos has an excellent Money-Back-Guarantee programme for just this kind of eventuality. I recommend you buy the surrounds and try it out - if you find a problem, ask for help. If help isn’t helpful enough, get your money back by returning the speaker - in the UK, you’ll get 100 days to try things out.
Incidentally, we’re still off-topic on this thread. As I mentioned, this thread is for 7.1 downmixing. I suggest you start a new thread if you want to talk about 7.1 being mis-reported in the Sonos app (if, in fact, that’s what’s actually happening - personally, I doubt it. It seems more likely that the TV or source is responsible). Further off-topic discussion here will have to result in this thread being closed so that searches stay relevant.
Edit: I do understand there is an obvious thematic link between 5.1 tracks being transformed into 7.1 tracks prior to arriving at the audio device, and 7.1 tracks being downmixed to 5.1 in the audio device, but these are technically very different - especially as the former is not something we can actually address.
It’s possible that your source/TV is remapping (or up-mixing) a 5.1 LPCM track to a 7.1 LPCM track. If the two extra channels are silent, or duplicates of other channels, then it won’t really matter that the Sonos app reports 7.1. As long as you get the intended 5.1 channels in the correct places, that is what counts.
I hope this helps.
So thanks for remaining engaged on this topic but wouldn’t it be relatively straightforward to test whether this is the case or not? If all is ok then no need for a fix and these topics could be put to bed?
+18
Hi
I guess we misunderstood that tweet then. At the same time I also didn't think the sonos arc had that many bugs/issues that something needs to be pushed down a list for going on 2 years since the tweet.
We don’t have software engineers that only work on the Arc. To be honest, I have no idea how the team is divided, if at all. I think it’s a fair assumption, however, that most of the work they do in regards to fixing issues is done on a priority basis. As 7.1 downmixing is not seen as an issue, but as an unimplemented future feature, its priority is low. This thread, here on this forum, may be bumping it up the queue as we speak.
Whether it is an actual issue or not, before the LPCM update on Sonos, the sonos app reported as receiving DD 5.1 fine (apart from DTS, my LG does not support that). So it’s the sonos lpcm update that altered something.
As HDMI is a connection that allows control communication between the devices, I think what’s happening is that since the update, when the Arc is queried as to what formats it can play, it now replies with an answer that includes LPCM. That makes either your TV or source device change it’s opinion about which audio stream should be played (the best quality stream supported by all the devices would be chosen - that used to be DD 5.1).
It’s possible that your source/TV is remapping (or up-mixing) a 5.1 LPCM track to a 7.1 LPCM track. If the two extra channels are silent, or duplicates of other channels, then it won’t really matter that the Sonos app reports 7.1. As long as you get the intended 5.1 channels in the correct places, that is what counts.
I hope this helps.
Hi
Once we have made our position clear - that we have never supported this format, therefore it not working isn’t an issue or a bug, but a forth-coming feature that we haven’t yet released or advertised - it seems needless to repeatedly answer all references to it. When we do release the feature, we’ll update the relevant threads on the forum - closed or not. Incidentally, I don’t think “working on” literally means there’s someone coding away at it right now, but that it is in a list of work that needs to be done and is quite likely to be repeatedly pushed down that list by actual bugs/issues that show up, or by upcoming projects/features that require a lot of concerted effort.
Thanks for responding, a few posts up is a tweet from the CEO, ages ago mentioning they are working on this, I have no idea what that means, but obviously nothing has been worked on, as no way would it take this long, whatever potential fix that may be.
So what exactly did the CEO mean by “working on this” clearly there was some issue they could see their end.
You literally just quoted my answer to this.
Yeah sorry.
I guess we misunderstood that tweet then. At the same time I also didn't think the sonos arc had that many bugs/issues that something needs to be pushed down a list for going on 2 years since the tweet.
Whether it is an actual issue or not, before the LPCM update on Sonos, the sonos app reported as receiving DD 5.1 fine (apart from DTS, my LG does not support that). So it’s the sonos lpcm update that altered something.
+18
Hi
Once we have made our position clear - that we have never supported this format, therefore it not working isn’t an issue or a bug, but a forth-coming feature that we haven’t yet released or advertised - it seems needless to repeatedly answer all references to it. When we do release the feature, we’ll update the relevant threads on the forum - closed or not. Incidentally, I don’t think “working on” literally means there’s someone coding away at it right now, but that it is in a list of work that needs to be done and is quite likely to be repeatedly pushed down that list by actual bugs/issues that show up, or by upcoming projects/features that require a lot of concerted effort.
Thanks for responding, a few posts up is a tweet from the CEO, ages ago mentioning they are working on this, I have no idea what that means, but obviously nothing has been worked on, as no way would it take this long, whatever potential fix that may be.
So what exactly did the CEO mean by “working on this” clearly there was some issue they could see their end.
You literally just quoted my answer to this.
Hi
Are they?
Sorry to quote an old post, but this issue is ancient now, its quite laughable that they said they were working on it, which is well over a year ago. They dont even acknowledge the issue or respond to posts on the subject anymore to give an update.
Issue or no issue, they should respond.
Sonos does not currently support 7.1 channel McLPCM audio, though, as you see above, some users report experiencing no problems with it.
The official line is, “this is a feature we are currently working on, however; we do not have any further information to share with you at this time. Rest assured, we will address this in a forthcoming update.”
Once we have made our position clear - that we have never supported this format, therefore it not working isn’t an issue or a bug, but a forth-coming feature that we haven’t yet released or advertised - it seems needless to repeatedly answer all references to it. When we do release the feature, we’ll update the relevant threads on the forum - closed or not. Incidentally, I don’t think “working on” literally means there’s someone coding away at it right now, but that it is in a list of work that needs to be done and is quite likely to be repeatedly pushed down that list by actual bugs/issues that show up, or by upcoming projects/features that require a lot of concerted effort.
Thanks for responding, a few posts up is a tweet from the CEO, ages ago mentioning they are working on this, I have no idea what that means, but obviously nothing has been worked on, as no way would it take this long, whatever potential fix that may be.
So what exactly did the CEO mean by “working on this” clearly there was some issue they could see their end.
But other issue is that system is not able to properly downmix LPCM 7.1 to 5.1
For all users or just some users with certain TV models?
did you miss the part where sonos CEO acknowledge this?
But other issue is that system is not able to properly downmix LPCM 7.1 to 5.1
For all users or just some users with certain TV models?
sonos does not support 7.1, that is correct and we know it
But other issue is that system is not able to properly downmix LPCM 7.1 to 5.1
tweet from sonos CEO over a year go.
He is saying that but has no basis for it - all anyone is asking for is a little investigation from Sonos to confirm either way. The pairing of Sonos soundbars with LG OLEDs must be much more common as a proportion of Sonos customers than LG customers.
Even though the Sonos app is reporting “Multichannel PCM 7.1”, do you actually hear any audio loss from the surround channels?
I don’t know, I have tried using test tones etc to see if everything is as it should be but it’s hard to be sure. I don’t have surrounds but am reluctant to get them based on this issue as there are reports of surround channels not working correctly with PS5 for example.
This issue only manifests itself in the Sonos app so it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect Sonos to check it out and confirm if it is a problem on their end or not. I have seen no similar reports with other soundbars/receivers and LG TVs for example but they may exist.
He is saying that but has no basis for it - all anyone is asking for is a little investigation from Sonos to confirm either way. The pairing of Sonos soundbars with LG OLEDs must be much more common as a proportion of Sonos customers than LG customers.
Even though the Sonos app is reporting “Multichannel PCM 7.1”, do you actually hear any audio loss from the surround channels?
He is saying that but has no basis for it - all anyone is asking for is a little investigation from Sonos to confirm either way. The pairing of Sonos soundbars with LG OLEDs must be much more common as a proportion of Sonos customers than LG customers.
Hi
So I do appreciate you responding but the issue here is that nobody is sending a 7.1 signal and worrying about whether it will play or whether Sonos supports it. I am not seeing anybody asking for 7.1 support to be added as a feature in any of the many threads discussing this issue as what would be the point on a system that physically tops out at 5.1?
The issues are all associated with playing back 5.1 tracks that are being reported as 7.1 in the sonos app. For me this happens with an Apple TV 4K and a PS5. Either the TV is converting 5.1 to 7.1 incorrectly (in my case an LG CX), or the TV is sending the correct 5.1 track but the wrong metadata to the Beam, or the Beam is incorrectly reporting received 5.1 tracks as 7.1 in the app.
I think you should read the first post on this thread again. 7.1 downmixing to 5.1 is the topic of this thread, regardless of what anyone else has been saying. The post from
The point of supporting 7.1 on a system that only has 5.1 (apart from when it’s 5.1.2) is that instead of throwing away channels to play the stream, channels are amalgamated instead (down-mixed). Side-channel effects would, presumably, be mixed to both front and rear channels on that side, for example.
I’d be happy to submit diagnostics etc if it would help but I think there is a bug here somewhere, not a missing feature.
No bugs. If you play a 5.1 track and it arrives at the Arc as a 7.1 track, then, as you have said, your source device or TV has either up-mixed it to 7.1 or has changed the descriptor on the stream for some reason (I can’t think of any valid reasons to do this). Either way, it’s not something we, Sonos, can address.
I recommend you get in touch with LG or Sony support.
I think you should read the posts on this thread again and the many others by the person you replied to discussing the exact issue I outlined. Your reply seems unnecessarily dismissive and condescending. I and many others are only asking for some feedback on an issue that I acknowledged may not be on Sonos but I suspect probably is to some extent as it spans multiple hardware sources from different manufacturers.
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