Don't have eARC? Get Atmos w/ HD Fury "Arcana" - Pre-orders now LIVE!



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Apologies, for my lack of technical knowledge.

I have a Samsung 55” Q9FN with only ARC (not E-ARC)  ,  Sonos Arc/Sub/Surrounds ,  Sky Q with UHD and with Disney Plus  and Sony UBP - X700 4K UHD Blu Ray Player.

I can get DD+ Atmos from Sky Q films/programmes (if they are in Atmos) but not through the Disney Plus App or through the 4K Blu-ray.  Will the HD Fury Arcana help me getting more Atmos Content from  Disney Plus and the 4K Blu-ray ?

Many Thanks.

Don’t know where you are based but in the UK/EU Disney+ has turned off Atmos support for the time-being to reduce bandwidth and support home-working. 

I was getting Atmos on Disney+ via my TV’s Disney+ app when it first started, then a couple months ago it suddenly disappeared. I contacted customer support and they confirmed they took the feature off but suggested it could be restored soon. I would think they will offer it with the release of Mulan in September. 
Arcana should allow you to get Atmos from your Blu Ray player and video game console, if it does what it says on the box. That’s why I am purchasing it. 
Having said all that, really, Atmos isn’t that common a feature on films yet. Its mostly just available on TV shows. There hasn’t yet been, in my opinion, a “killer app” for Atmos yet. The film Extraction on Netflix has been the best test I’ve had of the Arc’s capability since I got it. 

 

 

 

Given how quickly time seems to be passing these days, september 15 will be here before I can blink and turn around twice! ;-) 


Is it September 15 yet?

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Given how quickly time seems to be passing these days, september 15 will be here before I can blink and turn around twice! ;-) 


Is it September 15 yet?

Getting damn close. ;-)

I noticed there are new "pre-release" demo vids on the product page... Release is coming soon!

Bit the bullet and ordered an Arc to replace my Playbar. My current setup is with a Projector (no ARC) and an audio extractor with optical out, so pre-ordered Arcana as well.

To my surprise, I got the Arc delivered today, within 3 days of ordering. I'm in the Netherlands, ordered with Sonos for a Trade Up.

So now I'm temporarily running the Arc on optical, anxiously refreshing HDFury's site for a definitive announcement on start of shipping that they promised for beginning of September. Never thought my Arc would get here before Arcana... First world problems.

The latest I’ve heard is shipment for preorders is still September 15th, moved up from October 1st.  HDFury did send out beta units to a handful of testers last week, with many of them already arrived at the testers, so I would not expecting shipping to take too long on these.

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The latest I’ve heard is shipment for preorders is still September 15th, moved up from October 1st.  HDFury did send out beta units to a handful of testers last week, with many of them already arrived at the testers, so I would not expecting shipping to take too long on these.

Where do you get this information?

I am not doubting you, I just don't know where people are getting updates. 

HD Fury has a discord channel where they were answer question and give out tidbits of information like this.

There is a link to get setup on their channel somewhere around here if you’re interested.  A different thread I believe.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

And the post below talks about how to get on the discord channel.

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/hd-fury-is-working-on-an-earc-solution-for-sonos-arc-full-audio-atmos-from-any-hdmi-sources-6842652?postid=16442048#post16442048

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Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Regarding the CEC mess, can you confirm whether the commands from the Arc itself to turn the TV on/off work?

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Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Regarding the CEC mess, can you confirm whether the commands from the Arc itself to turn the TV on/off work?

Yes! Using an Apple TV, I can confirm that the Apple TV remote can and does turn the TV on and off. 

 

 

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

 

I am not at all surprised regarding CEC commands. Those sort of issues became apparent when the Beam was introduced.  It sounds to me like there won’t be any shipping delays due to testing.  Whatever minor issues that exist can be fixed with firmware updates.

 

Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

And yes @melvimbe, I think I saw @Highfalutintodd is a beta tester.

 

It is a vastly different support structure than Sonos, without a doubt.  They have the luxary of being smaller and not really having to worry too much about competition or media exposure since they don’t really have any of that anyway.

I would just like to say thank you to @Highfalutintodd and @melvimbe for their  particularly informed, thoughtful and perceptive comments about the Arcana and the issues it addresses,  over the last few weeks.

Can't wait to get mine!

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

 

Thanks - so using a HDFury Arcana you still wouldn’t be able to watch Apple Movies with Dolby Atmos audio on an Apple TV 4K.

If correct, I don’t understand the point of using the device (in relation to Apple TV 4K) as for most users the main point of the Apple TV is to rent/buy Apple Movies.

Can anyone add info? Thanks.

 

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Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

 

Thanks - so using a HDFury Arcana you still wouldn’t be able to watch Apple Movies with Dolby Atmos audio on an Apple TV 4K.

If correct, I don’t understand the point of using the device (in relation to Apple TV 4K) as for most users the main point of the Apple TV is to rent/buy Apple Movies.

Can anyone add info? Thanks.

 

Hey @CJG. The Sonos Arc DOES support the audio container Apple TV 4K uses to send Atmos (called Dolby MAT) so with an Arcana you CAN listen to Atmos from any app that supports it on Apple TV. I’ve already listened to Atmos on Apple TV via Arcana from Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime Video, and Apple TV+. That’s the entire point of the Arcana, after all, and it works great!

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Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

To delve into this a little deeper: 

Atmos can be sent over three different codecs: Dolby TrueHD (realistically Blu-ray only), Dolby Digital Plus (all the streaming services), and Dolby MAT (“Metadata-enhanced Audio Transport” - really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?). 

Dolby MAT is the oddball here so, of course, it’s what Apple uses (and Microsoft for Xbox One X/S). It’s really more of a container - the Apple TV decodes the Dolby bitstream into lossless multi-channel PCM audio, layers the Siri and system sounds on top of it, tops it off with the Atmos metadata where applicable, then packages it all up and sends it on to be played.

(Note: if you can’t tell, I’m VASTLY simplifying this, probably to the point of lunacy.) 

Since the Sonos Arc is able to decode all Dolby formats, it’s perfectly happy to play whatever’s in the Dolby MAT container, including Atmos. Which makes the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio all the more infuriating because it’s basically ALREADY playing multi-channel PCM audio, but only if it comes wrapped as Dolby MAT. Neat, huh? 

Non-Atmos content from the Apple TV is a little more complex, unfortunately, and we’re entering the realm of speculation here. On the Arcana, when I play Atmos content from the Apple TV 4K, I get “Dolby Atmos” in the “About my System” section of the Sonos App. When I play any other multichannel audio, however, I only get “Dolby Digital 5.1.” HD Fury speculates that this may have something to do with the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio, and I know that directly contradicts what I just said above. But the reality is that, for whatever reason, Dolby Digital Plus DOES NOT seem to be able to be passed from the Apple TV to the Arc via Arcana at this time. Whether this changes when Sonos finally puts out their multi-channel PCM update is something we’ll have to wait to see. 

Clear a mud? ;-) 

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

To delve into this a little deeper: 

Atmos can be sent over three different codecs: Dolby TrueHD (realistically Blu-ray only), Dolby Digital Plus (all the streaming services), and Dolby MAT (“Metadata-enhanced Audio Transport” - really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?). 

Dolby MAT is the oddball here so, of course, it’s what Apple uses (and Microsoft for Xbox One X/S). It’s really more of a container - the Apple TV decodes the Dolby bitstream into lossless multi-channel PCM audio, layers the Siri and system sounds on top of it, tops it off with the Atmos metadata where applicable, then packages it all up and sends it on to be played.

(Note: if you can’t tell, I’m VASTLY simplifying this, probably to the point of lunacy.) 

Since the Sonos Arc is able to decode all Dolby formats, it’s perfectly happy to play whatever’s in the Dolby MAT container, including Atmos. Which makes the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio all the more infuriating because it’s basically ALREADY playing multi-channel PCM audio, but only if it comes wrapped as Dolby MAT. Neat, huh? 

Non-Atmos content from the Apple TV is a little more complex, unfortunately, and we’re entering the realm of speculation here. On the Arcana, when I play Atmos content from the Apple TV 4K, I get “Dolby Atmos” in the “About my System” section of the Sonos App. When I play any other multichannel audio, however, I only get “Dolby Digital 5.1.” HD Fury speculates that this may have something to do with the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio, and I know that directly contradicts what I just said above. But the reality is that, for whatever reason, Dolby Digital Plus DOES NOT seem to be able to be passed from the Apple TV to the Arc via Arcana at this time. Whether this changes when Sonos finally puts out their multi-channel PCM update is something we’ll have to wait to see. 

Clear a mud? ;-) 

 

Many thanks….my head is hurting :-)

So…. (can you please confirm the statements below are correct)

Sonos Arc can receive and play Dolby Atmos audio from ATV 4K in Dolby MAT format, but to do that successfully, you would need either;

  1. To passthrough the Atmos Audio to the Sonos Arc, from ATV4K via HDMI, using a suitable TV with eARC.
  2. To use the HDFury Arcana, to ensure the ATV4K is fooled into thinking a Atmos-capable eARC TV is connected and to then split off the Atmos audio and feed it via HDMI to the Sonos Arc (with a separate HDMI taking the video to the TV)
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Many thanks….my head is hurting :-)

So…. (can you please confirm the statements below are correct)

Sonos Arc can receive and play Dolby Atmos audio from ATV 4K in Dolby MAT format, but to do that successfully, you would need either;

  1. To passthrough the Atmos Audio to the Sonos Arc, from ATV4K via HDMI, using a suitable TV with eARC.
  2. To use the HDFury Arcana, to ensure the ATV4K is fooled into thinking a Atmos-capable eARC TV is connected and to then split off the Atmos audio and feed it via HDMI to the Sonos Arc (with a separate HDMI taking the video to the TV)

That is correct.

@Highfalutintodd  Thanks for the explanation. This is one of the reasons why I avoid ATV4K discussions for the most part.  Everything else regarding audio is rather complicated, but ATV4K takes it to another level.

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@Highfalutintodd  Thanks for the explanation. This is one of the reasons why I avoid ATV4K discussions for the most part.  Everything else regarding audio is rather complicated, but ATV4K takes it to another level.

Tell me about it. I’ve learned more about Dolby MAT in the last few months than I’d ever want to and I STILL don’t think I fully grok it. And the only reason I dug into it as much as I did was a stubborn insistence on learning WHY OH WHY Plex wouldn’t / couldn’t pass TrueHD/Atmos from the Apple TV (because as nice as I’m sure it is, I really don’t feel like buying an Nvidia Shield for this one purpose). From there, I just kept following it down the rabbit hole and I’m still waiting for someone to go, nope, sorry kid, you’ve got it all wrong, here’s how it REALLY works. 

But until that day comes, I think my explanation is accurate. Or, in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, I’ll choose to believe that it’s “definitively inaccurate” until otherwise proven wrong. ;-) 

It’s off topic, but I got a Shield over the summer and have rather impressed with it.  I got it as I wanted a 2nd streamer for various reasons, heard good things about it, and wanted something that was streaming service agnostic.   Performance wise, it’s much better than FireTV or my other option Samsung’s internal apps. I pretty much use it 90% of the time now  Much more customizable.  Didn’t even consider Plex at the time, but set that up and been very happy with that. I use plex primarily as a music server, but now I’m considering building a video library as well.  

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It’s off topic, but I got a Shield over the summer and have rather impressed with it.  I got it as I wanted a 2nd streamer for various reasons, heard good things about it, and wanted something that was streaming service agnostic.   Performance wise, it’s much better than FireTV or my other option Samsung’s internal apps. I pretty much use it 90% of the time now  Much more customizable.  Didn’t even consider Plex at the time, but set that up and been very happy with that. I use plex primarily as a music server, but now I’m considering building a video library as well.  

I’m going to go pick one up today to try it out after all. I’ve got a buddy who speaks very highly of it and at this point I might as well have the ability to have the full audio quality from my ripped BDs. (Right? Right….? :no_mouth:)

Plus, I’ve been toying around with the idea of using it as a Plex server itself as supposedly it’s pretty capable. And that would get the Plex server off my daily driver iMac and onto something dedicated, so that could be good. We’ll see! 

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Interesting update! Another of the Arcana beta testers informed me that if you have Dolby Atmos / E-AC3 content on a Plex server, it will actually play as Atmos on an Apple TV 4K via Arcana and the Plex app IF you are using the “Old Player” (buried within the Plex app settings). 

I’ve tried this and can confirm that it’s true and works! I don’t have much in the way of Atmos / E-AC3 content (the Leaf and Amaze trailers, some test tones, a handful of other material I’ve downloaded), but it’s pretty awesome to know that this works!