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How to determine the end-of-life (EOL) for each Sonos product?

  • 22 January 2020
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58 replies

jgatie

But from what I can see the Play:1 only has 64MB Storage, which is why I’m getting worried. 

I understand your point about it more being to do with genuine system limitation rather than a statutory period of time, but I would argue that if Sonas do say next year that the Play:1 technically won’t work, then the onus would be on Sonos to find a very decent solution (Replacement, deep discount, or some form of technical solution that keeps them viable)

 

That graphic is the old version.  It’s been updated:

 

And yes, I was mistaken.  The old Play:1 has 128 MB RAM, but only 64 MB storage. 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Something to keep in mind, the Play 1 should be compared to the Sonos One SL, not the other Ones as they have need for much more internal hardware to deal with voice issues.

The early Play 1s are similar to the Play 3s in memory, that is going to justify a lot of effort on Sonos’ part to keep them working.

Sonos has in the past used resources of higher memory devices to support lower memory ones, the music index offloading for example. With the worst memory devices gone the chance to move to a newer Linux kernel and have room for key improvements in the now available space and offloading things that just won’t fit should serve for many years.

When looking at memory in the newer devices compared to older ones keep in mind the cost differences, not only for the memory but in putting it into a system. Look at the Raspberry Pi as an example, they want $35 for a 1 GB version, for $45 you get 2 GB and for $55 you get 4 GB. Putting in extra memory today is far different cost-wise than it was 15 years ago.

melvimbe

When looking at memory in the newer devices compared to older ones keep in mind the cost differences, not only for the memory but in putting it into a system. Look at the Raspberry Pi as an example, they want $35 for a 1 GB version, for $45 you get 2 GB and for $55 you get 4 GB. Putting in extra memory today is far different cost-wise than it was 15 years ago.

 

This is something I’ve thought about a bit, how much memory costs over the years.  I keep thinking  about  the memory available on thumb drives.  It seems to me that in 2015 and possibly earlier, it was pretty easy to get thumdrive’s with memory over 1 GB for cheap.  So that begs the question of why didn’t Sonos regularly increase the memory of their devices as the costs got cheaper?

 

I don’t have a background in manufacturing, so I can only guess, but I think there are a couple reasons.  One is that Sonos surely bought the memory in bulk, possible a contractually negotiated rate.  They could not easily upgrade the memory without taking a hit on the memory they have already purchased, or breaking a contract deal.  Could be 100% wrong on that.  The other reason is that you cannot just replace the memory and nothing else.  It’s my understanding that you would need to do some tweaks to the overall design, maybe change some other hardware as well, and then test out the new hardware before releasing.  We’ve also recently learned that it’s best to make hardware changes with an official generation change, which isn’t always ideal.

 

Probably other things I don’t know about, or things I’ve got wrong.  I think you can say though that upgrading the memory isn’t going to be as easy as dumping the new memory in the parts bin at the assembly line.

Danny
Ken_Griffiths

I think @Ryan S from Sonos answers your question at the start of this thread…

https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969

If that is what you were seeking here? 

Hope that assists.👍

Ken_Griffiths

He also clarifies things here…

https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/introducing-sonos-move-brilliant-sound-anywhere-6829500/index9.html#post16395469

As I read it, Sonos look to provide customer support/updates for their products for 5 years or so after they actually stop manufacturing them and even then they will just step back to what we can perhaps now call 'legacy unsupported' mode and remain in that mode until they give up their ghost. Whilst in legacy mode the devices will simply not receive any further software updates.

As a customer myself with a large number of their (old/new) products, that all sounds very fair to me, but it’s each to their own I guess.

N
Userlevel 3

Ok, thanks - so Sonos products have a 5 year life-span. Good to know. 

N
Userlevel 3

 

Ok, thanks - so Sonos products have a 5 year life-span. Good to know. 

 

Not if you buy them when they are first released, and some of the newly designated legacy units haven't been sold for over a decade.  So "5 year life span" is a little disingenuous (which I assume you were shooting for).

But some of them have. But I accept your point - you *may* have a 5yr life span on the products is more accurate. Hopefully, you will have more.

Of course, Sonos also don’t seem to know if or when a product can become “legacy”, so I guess in some use-cases, we may be shooting in the wind on the 5yr aspiration 🤞🏻 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

The play 1 was discontinued in 2017,

I’m not sure where you got that date, the Play 1 was available here, new from a Sonos authorized seller as recently as December. AFEES is still selling it.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/browse/electronics/_/N-4294831683+103533

 

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Everybody should sign the petition here:

http://chng.it/jrkJMZDnpg

Jahoker
Userlevel 2
Badge

The play 1 was discontinued in 2017,

I’m not sure where you got that date, the Play 1 was available here, new from a Sonos authorized seller as recently as December. AFEES is still selling it.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/browse/electronics/_/N-4294831683+103533

 

Still for sale on Amazon.co.uk too, amongst a load of other UK retailers.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

The play 1 was discontinued in 2017,

 

 

I assumed that when they brought out the Play one, they stopped making the play 1.

I agree that the Play 1 is still for sale, but i have also found atleast 1 dealer in my country that has a Play 5 gen 1 for sale “new” right now.

 

N
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

The play 1 was discontinued in 2017,

 

 

I assumed that when they brought out the Play one, they stopped making the play 1.

I agree that the Play 1 is still for sale, but i have also found atleast 1 dealer in my country that has a Play 5 gen 1 for sale “new” right now.

 

The Play1 had a silent hardware refresh in 2017. These are still widely sold.The newer hardware is version 1.20.x, you can check in your about my system page in the app.

This hardware refresh is the same as what is in the Ikea speakers (Ikea got airplay 2 but these play 1 owners didn't unfortunately). I would guess the pre 1.20 play1 will be legacy when they push the Play3 too (64 mb Ram iirc)

More information here:

 

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Where are you seeing anything about bricking Play 1s? They are not eligible for the Trade Up program.

Well the Play 1 was replaced with the Play one back in 2017, if they only support them for 5 years after, then in a couple of years it will be the Play 1 that will be obsoleted.

I was just curious if the Play 1 was like the Connect, where they changed the hardware inside at some point and the old Play 1 would be obsoleted before the other like the connect.

K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

But that’s the rub isn’t it. What’s the end of the manufacturing period? Will Sonos let us know? I have some Play:1 units that have been discontinued but when was their manufacturing end date? How are the Play:1 units along that 5yr window?

 

This was my original point - reference again Windows 10 example, where a consumer has a clear idea of the level of support they are going to recieve or when it will now end. 

 

I guess Sonos customers can hope they aren’t buying at the end of the manufacturing period

 

SELL OR USE BY DATE is the answer.

Between the helpful information Ryan provided about multiple versions of the same product (Connects/Connect Amps/etc.still sold by Sonos up until recently but with more power than the older builds) still in the marketplace + this mess of trying to understand when EXACTLY Sonos will drop support for this mix of products, Sonos should really just STAMP a Sell By or Use By date on every single product.  It’ll be easier for their reseller partners and especially for US their ‘once’ loyal-repeat-customers and brand evangelist.

R
Badge

No one has acknowledged or states the fact that wholesale and retail inventory inventory simply does not disappear immediatly after manufacuturing stops.  In my case, the play 5 gen 1s, were still being sold 3 to 4 years after SONOS stopped making them.

K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

How to determine if your older gear is still modern?

Besides the VOL vs. Wedge symbol on the front rocker switch and the build date next to the serial number.  Is there any way we can use an IP command line function to tell if your Connect or Connect Amp has enough computing power/memory to stay in the MODERN category? 

According to the Sonos link in the “end of support” letter, I have a mix of Connects and Connect Amps that are both Modern and Legacy. 

Am I missing something in the readout of the cool command utility “Sonos Support Info”  (/support/review)?  

I poked around search engines and in the forums and can’t find anything useful yet. 

Thanks in advance for any assistance as I think it would help others as well.

K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

The year and month of manufacture (YYMM) is the 4 digits before the serial number on the label.  Anything after 2015 is modern.  Anything before is legacy.  2015 is a tossup, because nobody knows the exact month of the change, but at least one person found 1509 (Sept. 2015) to be modern.


Thank you, do you also happen to know what the FLOOR CPU/Memory requirements are to make it Modern? 

jgatie

The year and month of manufacture (YYMM) is the 4 digits before the serial number on the label.  Anything after 2015 is modern.  Anything before is legacy.  2015 is a tossup, because nobody knows the exact month of the change, but at least one person found 1509 (Sept. 2015) to be modern.


Thank you, do you also happen to know what the FLOOR CPU/Memory requirements are to make it Modern? 

 

All current legacy devices have 32 MB RAM and storage.  CPU doesn’t matter, it’s the RAM/storage that’s limiting these devices.  Sonos simply can’t cram any more features into 32 MB.  

melvimbe

While I can see the value in figuring out the exact manufacturing year of product you have, I don’t know that it will ultimately be useful.  There is no way to determine the actual EOL for a product since Sonos doesn’t even know when that is themselves.

 

Just looking at this current event, there were many products that lasted much longer than 5 years before losing updates, and some that lasted the minimum.  As pointed out, it’s the RAM that matters, not the age.  But even then, it doens’t really tell you when the next group of products loses support and where the cut off point, in terms of RAM or product age (minimum 5 years) will occur. 

 

For example, we know that currently, all modern products have at least 64 MB of RAM.  It does not mean a product with 128 MB won’t be in the next cut.  It could be that Sonos maintains everything till 2030, and only products with 256 MB or more meet the cut.

 

That said, I do hope that Sonos gives customers a lot more notice before the next cut, and I hope it’s quite a few years off too.

Danny
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

If you got sold old stock I’d put together an e-mail with scans of your receipts showing the date of sale and serial numbers and send it off to Sonos. No idea what they will do but when Best Buy pulled that trick on me Sonos saved the day even thought they were innocent of any wrong-doing.

8
Userlevel 2

So, just to be clear.  If Play:1’s were stopped being manufactured in 2017, (despite being still sold by major retailers today), then the product becomes at risk of being out of support in 2022?

 

Could somebody confirm that please?

 

It’s really important to understand this and should have been made clear at point of sale.

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Play:1 was last manufactured in late 2019.  It was replaced by the One SL, not the One.


If that’s the case, based on Sonos’s latest guidance, these should be good until 2024, as a minimum?

Would love Sonos to confirm that.

I've read on the community that the Play1 received a hardware upgrade around 2017, so speakers before this date could be at risk. I would think they are OK for a while if you have a 2017 or later.

jgatie

Play:1 was last manufactured in late 2019.  It was replaced by the One SL, not the One.


If that’s the case, based on Sonos’s latest guidance, these should be good until 2024, as a minimum?

Would love Sonos to confirm that.

 

People make WAY too much about the 5 years.  They say 5 years because that is the minimum required by law in some jurisdictions.  The actual limit is the memory and storage (and to a lesser extent, the processor) in the units.  The last Play:1 to come off the line has 256 MB RAM and storage.  That’s 8 times the resources of the legacy devices that were just announced.  It took 15 years to fill up 32 MB.  Sonos now has 8 times as much to work with until the recent Play:1’s are a problem, and even the older model has 4 times the resources as the legacy devices. 

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Sonos increased the ram in most devices from 256 to 1gb in a couple of years. 

This is pretty good indicator about where they are going in the future. I hope for awesome new features.

​​​​People say 5 years cause that's all Sonos promise, sorry to hear they are only promising the minimum required by law. I didn't this.

Would be great if Sonos released the processor and other specs of other devices so we have more information to argue over what is next on the old Sonos chopping block.

8
Userlevel 2

Play:1 was last manufactured in late 2019.  It was replaced by the One SL, not the One.


If that’s the case, based on Sonos’s latest guidance, these should be good until 2024, as a minimum?

Would love Sonos to confirm that.

 

People make WAY too much about the 5 years.  They say 5 years because that is the minimum required by law in some jurisdictions.  The actual limit is the memory and storage (and to a lesser extent, the processor) in the units.  The last Play:1 to come off the line has 256 MB RAM and storage.  That’s 8 times the resources of the legacy devices that were just announced.  It took 15 years to fill up 32 MB.  Sonos now has 8 times as much to work with until the recent Play:1’s are a problem, and even the older model has 4 times the resources as the legacy devices. 

 

But from what I can see the Play:1 only has 64MB Storage, which is why I’m getting worried. 

I understand your point about it more being to do with genuine system limitation rather than a statutory period of time, but I would argue that if Sonas do say next year that the Play:1 technically won’t work, then the onus would be on Sonos to find a very decent solution (Replacement, deep discount, or some form of technical solution that keeps them viable)

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