Considering leaving Sonos entirely?!

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108 replies

ratty

@Thewizard2000  Of course I don’t know who you spoke to, nor their level of authority to openly discuss Sonos’ internal engineering activities. In my experience they’re notoriously cagey about such matters. 

As a complex system of asynchronous semi-autonomous units, interfacing with each other and a plethora of third party devices and services, Sonos of course has to deal with all manner of interactions and potential race situations. The “many stability problems” to which you refer might well only affect corner cases, otherwise one would have expected Sonos’ product business to be severely affected and this board to be deluged with consistent and repeated complaints. Compared to the size of Sonos’ customer base the post flow here is normally not much more than a trickle, really. And when a genuine issue does arise a thread will often grow by hundreds of posts per day. 

I hope I’ve never implied that all Sonos problems are down to dodgy networks. They clearly aren’t. That said, over my 15+ years here I’ve seen enough occasions where network issues have indeed been responsible for Sonos struggling. It’s therefore not unreasonable to expect that the first thing the user should do is put their network in order. A healthy network is a basic sine qua non for successful Sonos operation. 

jgatie

I’ll say it - It’s your network.  I’ve been helping people here for 15 years, and I’ve posted the steps to fix a network problem, specifically duplicate IP addresses, hundreds of times.  I can count on one hand the times a person performed those steps exactly as written and didn’t fix their problems.  This includes “network experts” who swore to high heaven it could never be their network, until they actually tried to fix it.  

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6

@jgatie Well if you think you are better than the technical service of sonos level 2 which they have tried many times to solve my problem without success as I have already mentioned, you are more than welcome to solve it. I can even give you access to my computer, my phone number and all the information you want to obtain. If you manage to fix my problem that I have had for 2 years as you seem convinced you already know it so well, I will even give you a monetary reward.

K

@Thewizard2000 A simple solution may be getting a cheap Echo Dot and see how that works in your Wifi environment for a week or so. The outcome may guide you to next steps. 

ratty

@Thewizard2000  Ten days ago you posted comment from a level 2 tech which appears to suggest you have wireless network issues. Is that the feedback you’re referring to? 

ratty

@Thewizard2000 A simple solution may be getting a cheap Echo Dot and see how that works in your Wifi environment for a week or so. The outcome may guide you to next steps. 

Now, please. Echoes wired to Line-In are not the universal panacea. In fact if they depend on Uncompressed WAV they could lead to a worse outcome. 

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6

It seems so easy for some to fix my problem so my offer is valid for anyone who wants to fix it. 
I am at your disposal 100%.

K

@Thewizard2000 A simple solution may be getting a cheap Echo Dot and see how that works in your Wifi environment for a week or so. The outcome may guide you to next steps. 

Now, please. Echoes wired to Line-In are not the universal panacea. In fact if they depend on Uncompressed WAV they could lead to a worse outcome. 

I am permitted to speak from my experience, I trust. As is always the case on the Internet, there is a buyer beware thing in force that applies to all posts.

I don’t know about uncompressed WAV; for many music listeners today, Spotify serves well enough for all needs. Wire an Echo Dot to the line in of any audio system that has a line in jack, and the music listening experience will be as good as Spotify on Sonos; it will depend entirely on how that system compares with Sonos for sound quality.

jgatie

@jgatie Well if you think you are better than the technical service of sonos level 2 which they have tried many times to solve my problem without success as I have already mentioned, you are more than welcome to solve it. I can even give you access to my computer, my phone number and all the information you want to obtain. If you manage to fix my problem that I have had for 2 years as you seem convinced you already know it so well, I will even give you a monetary reward.

 

No rewards needed, and I don’t need access.  And considering even “level 2” technical service (whatever that is) use canned scripts and are just above minimum wage, yes I do know more, especially when it comes to things Sonos won’t say because it makes them look like it needs special setups.  So, are you ready to try?  

Reboot/power cycle each of these in exactly this order:

Modem
Router
Hubs or switches
Wired Sonos components
Wireless Sonos components
Computers, printers
Phones, tablets, all other wireless devices

Allow time for each device to come back up before moving to the next one. Note you can prevent duplicate IP addresses by reserving a permanent IP for each Sonos unit in your router setup. See your router manual for details.

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6

@jgatie

You can write the whole process to do from A to Z and you can be assured that I will do everything with the utmost precision tonight. Take note that in my orbi wifi if I go to the 192.168.1.1 page I see all the ip addresses of my sonos devices which are all the same except for the numbers at the end which change.

Example:

ZonePlayer ZP100
SONOSZP

192.168.1.27
192.168.1.26
192.168.1.7

etc...

I can't modify anything so I don't know what you mean when it is necessary that the ip addresses are not duplicated as well as to reserve a permanent ip address.

ratty

ZP100?! Has the possibility been considered that it/they may be approaching the end of their useful life? 

jgatie

@jgatie

You can write the whole process to do from A to Z and you can be assured that I will do everything with the utmost precision tonight. Take note that in my orbi wifi if I go to the 192.168.1.1 page I see all the ip addresses of my sonos devices which are all the same except for the numbers at the end which change.

Example:

ZonePlayer ZP100
SONOSZP

192.168.1.27
192.168.1.26
192.168.1.7

etc...

I can't modify anything so I don't know what you mean when it is necessary that the ip addresses are duplicated as well as to reserve a permanent ip address.

 

Duplicated IP addresses aren’t going to show up in your router table.  It’s a corruption of the router table which causes the duplicate IP, usually due to a power failure or a reboot.  So looking for the problem in the device which caused it is an unfruitful task.  

 

Here’s a Netgear forum link for instructions on how to reserve an IP on Orbi routers:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-Wi-Fi-5-AC-and-Orbi-with/Orbi-setting-up-static-IP-address-for-one-of-my-quot-appliances/m-p/1883572

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6

If i understand i need to select each of my sonos devices and click ADD of each? Thats it? I do not need to change any ip adress numbers?

This technique only seems to overwrite to the original ip addresses but does not seem to reserve a permanent ip address for them. At least I don't see a possibility in the advanced LAN settings.

But under internet my check box is set to: Get Dynamically from ISP

I can select: USE STATIC IP ADRESS instead...

Ken_Griffiths

@Thewizard2000,

Presumably you have read the Sonos Staff thread here:

It suggests running the Orbi Hub mesh system in ‘bridged’ Wireless AP mode, as per this link:

https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point
 

After 2 years of ‘Sonos problems’, that would be at the top of my preferred network setup and to perhaps ‘bite the bullet’ and ‘bridge’ your Orbi hubs to a 3rd party reputable router instead. Better still if you can wire the hubs directly back to the main router, or an adjacent primary switch (unmanaged should be fine for home use).

I think it’s worthy of some consideration.

Other points…

  • Disable the WiFi adapters on the 3rd party router. 
  • Reserve the Sonos IP addresses in its DHCP reservation table.
  • If SSDP multicast broadcast ‘device discovery’ issues persist between controller and Sonos system (hopefully they won’t), then consider separating the Orbi 2.4Ghz/5Ghz WiFi bands into separate SSID’s and run all the Sonos products/controllers on the 2.4ghz SSID only (using a non-overlapping channel, 20Mhz channel-width only).

Hope that suggestion will sort things for you. I don’t see why it wouldn’t?

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6
  • aCIf SSDP multicast broadcast ‘device discovery’ issues persist between controller and Sonos system (hopefully they won’t), then consider separating the Orbi 2.4Ghz/5Ghz WiFi bands into separate SSID’s and run all the Sonos products/controllers on the 2.4ghz SSID only (using a non-overlapping channel, 20Mhz channel-width only).

 

Previously I had the same problem with my old wifi and the one had separate bands and I was indeed on 2.4ghz and the problem was also present (after confirming 2.4 ghz in the router settings). So I guess I can rule this solution out.

 

  • Reserve the Sonos IP addresses in its DHCP reservation table.

 

I asked @jgatie for additional questions in my previous message about the static reservation mode of ip addresses. I will wait for a response before taking this step.

 

It suggests running the Orbi Hub mesh system in ‘bridged’ Wireless AP mode

 

My modem is currently in bridge mode with my orbi wifi but not in AP mode. If i understand you want a AP mode to transfer the modem to orbi?… I do not understand 

With all these advanced networks configurations and particularities and I'm afraid of screwing up my network at home by randomly trying all these things. I almost wanted to hire a networking expert, but come to think of it, that almost doesn't make sense when it's just a question of running a sound system after all. It hardly makes sense to me.

I use part of my afternoon today by going to a big banner electronics store in my area that sell sonos products because I wanted to see with my own eyes a sonos system that works well and which has no sound dropouts on multiple wifi devices and the seller just told me that Sonos does not provide them with any devices for the customer to test. They also explained to me that no representative exists to create an intermediary between the seller and the manufacturer. I really want to see with my own eyes a sonos system that works properly and that there is no issues in terms of wireless sound. Too bad that on youtube we just see customers who show their system with only 2 or 3 devices connected at the same time and that they never change tracks (where the problem always occurs at the beginning).

That being said, I haven't received a response from @jgatie. I will give him time to answer me over the days because he seems convinced that my network is the problem (which I do not believe at all). In life I work by logic. How a network can be defective when it is new, after a factory reset has been carried out on all of my network as well as all of my complete sonos devices. By logic this does not work.

While waiting for @jgatie to perform a miracle, I am convinced that sonos simply does not work well in wireless multiroom on several devices at the same time. Without forgetting that when I go to the google comments on the application, I spend 20 minutes collecting only negative comments and 1-star comments.

 

Thank you for the help anyway.

buzz

I spend 20 minutes collecting only negative comments and 1-star comments.

 

 

 

As you walk through a hospital the lesson will be: “everyone is sick”.

 

jgatie

If i understand i need to select each of my sonos devices and click ADD of each? Thats it? I do not need to change any ip adress numbers?

This technique only seems to overwrite to the original ip addresses but does not seem to reserve a permanent ip address for them. At least I don't see a possibility in the advanced LAN settings.

But under internet my check box is set to: Get Dynamically from ISP

I can select: USE STATIC IP ADRESS instead...

 

Click on the circle to the left of each of your Sonos devices, then click Add.

ratty

According to this post @Thewizard2000 has wireless bandwidth problems. 

Ken_Griffiths

@Thewizard2000 

See this video at 1m-30s onwards on how to reserve an IP address on Netgear routers. 
Note you can alter the last octet of the address too, if preferred.

 

jgatie

According to this post @Thewizard2000 has wireless bandwidth problems. 

 

Then they need to wire one Sonos unit to the main Orbi hub and set the Sonos network channel to something the Orbi isn’t using.  This will have the extra benefit of allowing devices on the 5 GHz band to access Sonosnet on the 2.5 GHz band, freeing up yet more bandwidth. They also need to refrain from any bandwidth hogging settings on the Orbi, such as channel swapping or anything which uses more than the standard number of channels. 

K

Just tossing in something here from what @Corry P said more than once here some months ago: he has seen no need for IP address reservation for every Sonos troubleshooting he has done and thinks it is not needed. Now I don’t recall all the context for this as to whether this applies to what generation of Sonos that is working on what kind of WiFi and maybe he will step in now with more guidance. If I recall correctly, in the recent Sonos FAQ on fixing WiFi issues, IP reservation does not find a place.

And as I recently rediscovered, troubleshooting has to follow a one change at a time process else even when things work you never know what change made things finally work so there is no real learning for the next time.

Finally, I haven’t needed Sonos support for years now and I suspect that quality has gone down; my experience of diagnostics sent by email and subsequent back and forth over emails and by a follow up call when needed was always very good.

K

Update to above: since the FAQ is linked earlier in this thread I looked it up and found that it has been update with a recommendation for IP reservation, but in the thread itself the remarks that it is not needed are still there as is this one: To be honest, I’m a little puzzled over the current proclivity of community members to suggest static IP reservation. If it works, it works, but I never found a need. I actually have static IPs on my home network (for pihole, PC (back when I used VNC) and NAS), but not for Sonos or phones/tablets.

Make what you will of this.

All my Sonos units have reserved IPs. None of the Echo devices do because they did not seem to need that to work fine and I was too bored to sit doing this for them when it did not seem necessary.

buzz

It depends on the router. Some routers manage DHCP address assignments better than others. You can get lucky 100 times in a row without reserved addresses, then the phantom strikes. It’s a “never happened before” event, therefore something must be buggy or broken. Since program or device XYZ was the latest change, it must be the perpetrator.

Even though it may seem lame and unnecessary, address reservations prevent issues.

B
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Even though it may seem lame and unnecessary, address reservations prevent issues.

FWIW: I've reserved all IP addresses of my Sonos gear (and of everything else on my home network, for that matter) some 10 years ago. Since then never ran into any problems with Sonos. Everything running smoothly since then, even after moving on from S1 to S2.

T
Userlevel 2
Badge +6

I’ll definitly try this today, but if the static feature resolve the problem then a update of the firmware would be recommended since this should not be made manualy.  The system should alocate is own ip manualy and switch and ajust if encounter a problem by itself.

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