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Alternative to Sonos


I sent this to the Sonos CEO email, as this seems to be the only support option available. My main point is to find a solution on the bad situation I find myself in, with the non-functioning new app.

Anyone else, if not the CEO, is welcome to give their suggestions and comments, that may help me on the way. Thanks.

 

“Dear Sonos,

You have done something completely absurd, as you are aware of, by killing off a functioning app and replacing it with one that has close to no functions - a work in progress, at best, or a disaster of an app, when speaking realistically.

After some years without Sonos for my part, since you decided to kill off all older devices, threatening that if I didn't replace them with new ones I would be at risk of you sending out software updates at any time that would render my system useless, I decided to give you a chance again, ordering a Port.

The day after receiving this new device, before I had even managed to connect it and start using it, came this infamous app update.

I have one - one - purpose of owning a Sonos system: I want a player for the music I have in my own collection. CDs that I have copied to a local SAN and are playing from there.

This is hardly possible now. I was lucky to get the old desktop app before you stopped access to it, so that I at least in that app can make playlists - which most of the time are visible and playable from the mobile app.

In the mobile app, it happens from time to time that "My music" appears - and when it does, it sometimes stay long enough for me to see the music collection - in a somewhat useless form, as all contributing artists and their mother and neighbors seem to be in the list that, therefore, becomes extremely long - and since it is not searchable, I can effectively see only the first few letters of the alphabet. When it works at all, that is.

And what can I do with that music overview? I can pick one tune. Or one album. And play it directly. That's it.

If I pick an album, I cannot see the tunes on it in the queue, which is called empty, even though the system does play song after song until that album is over.

If I try with the web app, I can always see My music, and I can pick an artist, if I want - but wanting this means accepting that all tunes by that artist will be played either alphabetically or in random order (if I push that button). I cannot get them played in the order they are on the albums.

So, back to the old desktop app that I now do not dare to upgrade, even though it constantly asks me to do so: There, I can make playlists of albums that will be played in the correct order.

You want so much that I upgrade that app, but what will come out of it? I expect nothing good.

My take on all this is that you have ruined my joy of ownership of that new thing, the Port, like you previously did with the older devices I had. It was wrong of me to give you another chance. You have not proved worthy of that.

So, apart from not buying any more devices from Sonos, due to this failure of delivering what you sold me, I will again start looking for an alternative. 

You are in general lucky, in that the competition is very poor. I tried out Yamaha's MusicCast and Denon's Heos, and where Yamaha had great hardware, they had a terrible app. Where Denon had a useful app, they had malfunctioning hardware. Sonos used to be the combination of good hardware and software, even though you several times have shown a lack of sense of fair business, but now you have the most miserable app of them all, making it impossible to utilize the hardware, so it no longer matters if that is good or bad.

I hope that there is a fourth or a fifth player on the market that I can find and shift to. And since you obviously do not want me as a customer (making my ownership experience as miserable as possible), you probably wouldn't mind that I move to a competitor? 

So, please advise on who is providing a system for playing music that actually works.”

99 replies

@Kumar

The majority of my rooms use an amp/port to stream the music and are paired with other equipment.

The only room currently using sonos speakers is the master bedroom.

These will stay, more for convenience (ie not having to redecorate if I remove the arc from the wall) than anything else.

Amp/port both have line in jacks that can free you from the yoke of the Sonos app, once you have used it to configure the line in on the port/amp, by setting that to autoplay. Thereafter any source plugged into the line in jack just has to start playing for it to be heard downstream of port/amp, from the speakers at the downstream end.

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@castalla there is the potential for an “out of the frying pan into the fire situation” especially given that it is now ultimately owned by Samsung.
But there was an announcement in early Feb (after the takeover) that they are going back to focusing on local libraries (as Roon was a small company they were trying to expand more into the streaming side of things to try and expand, somewhat annoying their existing user base which sounds familiar 🤣 - although to be fair they didn’t break everything in the process).

Currently I am in a trial period and I do like it a lot and am minded to get a yearly subscription. 

Obviously this could all go **** up, but at this point Roon do not seem to have a history of catastrophic decision making at board level.

 

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

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@castalla there is the potential for an “out of the frying pan into the fire situation” especially given that it is now ultimately owned by Samsung.
But there was an announcement in early Feb (after the takeover) that they are going back to focusing on local libraries (as Roon was a small company they were trying to expand more into the streaming side of things to try and expand, somewhat annoying their existing user base which sounds familiar 🤣 - although to be fair they didn’t break everything in the process).

Currently I am in a trial period and I do like it a lot and am minded to get a yearly subscription. 

Obviously this could all go **** up, but at this point Roon do not seem to have a history of catastrophic decision making at board level.

 

Well, it's certainly one way out of the Sonos Fiasco.  

I think the pricing is steep if you are a more casual user (and there are free open source alternatives) 

I also think the hardware requirements to run the Roon server are excessive.  They are releasing a dedicated 'cheaper' server (500) in June, but it's about a foot square black box (hardly unobtrusive)..

At the very least, it will be a solution for some frustrated Sonosees (or Sonosistas) 😝😁😎

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I agree it’s a bit pricey for the subscription, but I avoided the need for a dedicated Roon server as I already had a nas.

I was a bit worried how the NAS would cope, as it currently runs my security camera setup as well. I have been running it for 5 days and have not run into any issues of drop outs or the nas cpu being overworked.

So far all is good. Not sure this would be the correct route for everyone, but it is currently working well for me.

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I'm not really into the hugely graphic-oriented interfaces except for where the artwork counts, album covers, radio metadata.  Sonos fails miserably at streaming metadata (always has) & the the new shiny Courageous App is possibly even worse than the original.  

I guess you might like the Roon music & Artist information feature. 

Anyway, enjoy your choice!

 

ps: now they've 'fixed' the Alarm clock business, maybe posts might become more constructive.  1000s of squids for a musical alarm clock? Beats me ⏰😋😁

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Don’t forget the song lyrics tab, helps you do a cheeky bit of karaoke, or alternatively lets you understand what the singer on death metal track you are listening to is banging on about🤣

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My teenage son walked in to the room today and started playing music on my Sonos from his spotify app!  I had no idea this was possible.  Now I'm baffled that Sonos hasn't tied up with Spotify to offer us all free accounts until they get the local library working again.  Spotify would probably fund it given how many new Accounts they'd pick up afterwards!

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I got Roon working yesterday evening. I signed up for the 14 day free trial. I downloaded the Roon Server onto my Macbook laptop. (This is how I was running Sonos previously.) Server setup was a snap. My library was recognized and indexed pretty quick. The server is easily configurable to meet your needs. I have 2 Kef’s arriving on Tuesday. I am hoping setup is easy. 

I am interested to hear how the hi def music sounds. It appears that Kef and Roon are able to handle much higher def music than Sonos.

It’s been more than10 days since this debacle began. Yes, some of us have found workarounds. The silence from Patrick Spence is deafening. The treatment of certain groups, vision impaired and others is unbelievable. Personally a company that behaves in this fashion is not to be trusted. I cannot imagine the scenario where I would ever spend one more penny with Sonos. 

I did see that the Washington Post has picked up this debacle. You have to wonder where the Board of Directors and major shareholders are in all of this. Is there no adult in the room?

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@jorwin,

Yes you can use Roon to control and play music via airplay. However is not able to control deeper Sonos functions for example sleep timers etc - mind you the sonos app is utterly incapable of doing that also.

The stupid thing is that Roon currently provides better functionality than the Sonos 1st party app. 
This just highlights how appalling this app launch has been.

Roon costs euro 180 per year.  There are free open source solutions which can liberate your hardware investments from Big Corporates 😀😁😎

Just bought it, ending up with 149 USD per year. Will try putting it on an old iMac that is anyway doing nothing and may be strong enough to lift the task (will see about that).

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My teenage son walked in to the room today and started playing music on my Sonos from his spotify app!  I had no idea this was possible.  Now I'm baffled that Sonos hasn't tied up with Spotify to offer us all free accounts until they get the local library working again.  Spotify would probably fund it given how many new Accounts they'd pick up afterwards!

It can be done, as you have noticed, and you can also send music in various ways from other devices, for instance using Airplay, to get played on the Sonos device - Sonos support suggested me to do exactly that. It works without the app, it seems, and therefore it has not been ruined yet.

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but I will try to learn from you and make use of the Sonos devices as I can.

You/others would be wise to do the latter because Sonos audio hardware is excellent. Natural sounding, well built for looks and reliability. My 12 units have worked flawlessly since 2011 - from 2020, using S1.

I refused to move to S2, and will stick with S1 till the hardware dies a natural death, because as I said, the hardware lacks for nothing when it works without glitches, as it does now under S1.

I also see reports that Sonos will soon reopen the downgrade to S1 path, and it might be worth waiting for that before throwing away Sonos hardware. Using S1, local NAS play should be back to how it has been since the time Sonos came to market.

Sonos agreed to refund my Port, which I bought just 2 weeks ago (and received the day before the app was killed).

The new Bluesound is playing non-stop and working well, so far, and I have then two older Sonos S1 devices left to consider the future of - I am mostly inclined to throw them into the bin, as the new data-steal from Sonos is very much against my principles (see other threads for this, but the app changes seem to be connected with Sonos grabbing all your data and putting it on their servers instead of leaving it on your Sonos devices).

And then I still have a Yamaha MusicCast device that can receive Airplay commands, and even two Denon AV amplifiers with the same ability. So, I really believe that the new Roon approach will help me get music all over my home, even without any Sonos left.

Not sure, though, if the music managed by Roon will be synchronized across the different devices, playing exactly the same in all the rooms, but that is less important: Multi-room has never been a key feature for me, as I am happy with switching on what I need in each room by itself.

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I agree it’s a bit pricey for the subscription, but I avoided the need for a dedicated Roon server as I already had a nas.

I was a bit worried how the NAS would cope, as it currently runs my security camera setup as well. I have been running it for 5 days and have not run into any issues of drop outs or the nas cpu being overworked.

So far all is good. Not sure this would be the correct route for everyone, but it is currently working well for me.

Which NAS do you have? I have a Synology 218, and according to Roon’s specs it should not be good enough, so I will not even try. But it could have been nice to go that way, avoiding getting yet another alway-on device.

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LMS runs on raspi (30 usd) & android phones/tablets. Free. 😜

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Artist & Music Information plugin

 

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I agree it’s a bit pricey for the subscription, but I avoided the need for a dedicated Roon server as I already had a nas.

I was a bit worried how the NAS would cope, as it currently runs my security camera setup as well. I have been running it for 5 days and have not run into any issues of drop outs or the nas cpu being overworked.

So far all is good. Not sure this would be the correct route for everyone, but it is currently working well for me.

Which NAS do you have? I have a Synology 218, and according to Roon’s specs it should not be good enough, so I will not even try. But it could have been nice to go that way, avoiding getting yet another alway-on device.

@jorwin, I have a qnap TS-873A

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@castalla with the old squeezebox software, does it allow control of all the various devices or is it a dlna server like serviio. I’ve installed it my nas previously when I had squeezebox devices, but it was a while ago and I didn’t go that deeply into it.

Also does it also do the conversion of the format like Roon?

Spotify Connect isn't a replacement.  It's Spotify only. 

Good grief! 

Bluesound speakers can suffer from STICKY GOO syndrome within 2 years - no fix. 

 

The soft plastic sticky goo syndrome has been fixed since 2020 according to Bluesound product manager.

Bluesound app has also some issues as well, but at least it recognizes the speakers and it can adjust volume. Furthermore it has the function that you can click on a song and then that song is played on the speaker.

 

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@castalla with the old squeezebox software, does it allow control of all the various devices or is it a dlna server like serviio. I’ve installed it my nas previously when I had squeezebox devices, but it was a while ago and I didn’t go that deeply into it.

Also does it also do the conversion of the format like Roon?

 @wayneo123

You can control all devices which are active. Not sure what you mean by conversion of format. 

Pic shows all the players on my system (various brands) 

 

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Cheers @castalla, I have a spare raspberry pi 5 floating around somewhere so I will give it go.

 

I assume it’s web based and there is no associated iOS app?

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Cheers @castalla, I have a spare raspberry pi 5 floating around somewhere so I will give it go.

 

I assume it’s web based and there is no associated iOS app?

Okay. The control interface is browser based.  Once you have LMS running (look for the Picoreplayer OS to put on the pi) you install a plugin called Material Skin.  This gives the browser interface which I've used. Safari works. 

(Edited by me to remove links.!) 

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@castalla lms is installed and up and running.

All my player were found and I could play music on them (this is obviously alien concept to Sonos). The interface is not quite as polished as Roon, but then I wouldn’t expect it to be as it’s open source. That said, it’s functional and does the job.

My only concern at the moment is that it seems to downsample high-res files (ie 24bit 192Khz) to 16bit 44.1 kHz. 
Also I have had a couple of dropouts of the sound.

i will do some more tinkering tomorrow.

Thanks for putting me on to this.

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@castalla lms is installed and up and running.

All my player were found and I could play music on them (this is obviously alien concept to Sonos). The interface is not quite as polished as Roon, but then I wouldn’t expect it to be as it’s open source. That said, it’s functional and does the job.

My only concern at the moment is that it seems to downsample high-res files (ie 24bit 192Khz) to 16bit 44.1 kHz. 
Also I have had a couple of dropouts of the sound.

i will do some more tinkering tomorrow.

Thanks for putting me on to this.

Great!  Did you install the material skin plugin? Sorry, no idea about the down sampling - my hearing is so shot I wouldn't notice!

You can check the upnpbridge settings:

 

 Sorry, no idea about the down sampling - my hearing is so shot I wouldn't notice!

 

 

I would not fuss about the downsampling, in a blind level matched listening test, no one in the world has shown that they can hear any difference. No one human, that is, on kit of any cost.

@castalla lms is installed and up and running.

All my player were found and I could play music on them (this is obviously alien concept to Sonos). The interface is not quite as polished as Roon, but then I wouldn’t expect it to be as it’s open source. That said, it’s functional and does the job.

My only concern at the moment is that it seems to downsample high-res files (ie 24bit 192Khz) to 16bit 44.1 kHz. 
Also I have had a couple of dropouts of the sound.

i will do some more tinkering tomorrow.

Thanks for putting me on to this.

Sonos play 24/48 max so if lms was sending 24/192 it needs a down sample to play. 

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@Bumper Thanks, but I was testing the high-res out on a bluesound node and KEF LX IIs (I have started replacing my Sonos equipment).

@Kumar, not sure I would be able to tell the difference on a blind test either - I just wanted to test the Roon and the lms software and compare.

@castalla I have installed the material plugin and couldn’t find (albeit I only l looked briefly) the setting you show in your screenshot. I will revert back to the default skin and amend the setting.

I have also installed iPeng app on my iPhone which was no extra cost as I had installed it back in the day when I was using LMS.

Thanks all for your contribution 👍

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