The New Sonos App and Future Feature Updates

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C
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Hi Keith. Long time Sonos user .. took a while to go across because I was concerned about buying into a 'system' that would then take advantage of my investment to force me into using products I didnt want, or end up paying a subscription to use the products. ~8+ years on and my decision to 'buy in' seemed to be justified until this App drop which seems to be done purely to satisfy your marketing department & perhaps shareholders who want to launch headphones in this quarter 🤔 

I dont want headphones (Ive already got heaps, and dont listen to them in a home setting), I just want to use Sonos for the reason I bought it the first place, to listen to my music, > 13,000 tracks that I have carefully and legally ripped to FLAC and are stored on my NAS. Sure, CDs are getting a bit dated & streaming music is getting better quality, so I'm starting to use Spotify & happily will use your old App, or Spotify to play streaming music through your speakers.

One of my sons also likes his music and likes Vinyl, but wants the music piped to wherever he & his wife are, so I suggested he look at a Port and a couple of Sonos speakers to do that. He also streams his music so it seemed to me where you were going would satisfy his needs, and mine, plus a couple of other people I've recommended your product to (bit worried about how to handle that conversation with this new App).

So, to sum it up, did you guys do any Human Centred Design and map the personas of your user base, or did a few of you sit in a room and come to the conclusion that streaming was the go, and anybody that wasnt there was probably not worth keeping? Or were you getting shareholder pressure to grow and needed to show them some new shiny product to keep them off your backs? Either case, you arent doing yourselves any favours!

Perhaps in the end, my original concerns were completely justified, it just took you 8 years for them to eventuate and now I need to find some happy startup that offers 'Sonos lite' functionality and just switch now to cut my losses?

There's a simple solution, work out the different types of customers you have and provide versions of the App to support them .. don't treat us like idiots. Take us on the journey and you will build loyalty, do stuff like you have with this new App and you will lose a lot of customers

M
Userlevel 4
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… I’m aware that many Sonos users don’t see the value in taking on a Roon subscription but I’ve had one for years and it’s a great platform even taking into account the cost. Roon can stream natively direct to most Sonos devices as well as via Airplay. This means that I can still use my fully indexed Roon library and stream to my Sonos devices from the Roon client. 

 

I may well go this way for now as well.  I moved to a Roon setup for my music room a while back, when I bought a Roon Ready amp (a Hegel H120), and I love it.  Picked up a cheap second hand Dell Optiplex micro PC to use as a Roon server, and it's great.  It just works.

Suspect I may go down the path of progressively replacing my Sonos speakers elsewhere in the house with something that Roon works nicely with and be done with it.

D
Userlevel 3
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You would have thought with all the outcry that Sonos would take the banner off the top of their website suggesting people to download the new app, which begs the question, are Sonos bothering to read this?

Flattliner
Userlevel 6
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Quite - “The Sonos app is redesigned and better than ever. Get the latest update now.” would be hilarious if meant as joke. Should read “The Sonos app is redesigned and worse than ever. Get the latest update if you want to lose a lot of functionality and hate listening to your music.”

SONOS: Great hardware, terrible software.
jnelly
Userlevel 3
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Keith, I appreciate you and the team trying to stem the bleeding.  I don’t envy your position of having to clean up self-inflicted consequences from management decisions.

That said, these timelines strike me as tripling down on the tone deaf and self-congratulatory  “courageous” marketing messages being sent out.

You are telling me, the market leader Sonos speakers won’t be able to add a song to the listening queue for a month.  This capability was available last week, but no longer due to an unannounced impact of the “upgrade.”  

If I tried to suggest surprising users by taking away core functionality and promising to bring it back in a month, I’d be laughed out of a job.

The most obvious way to get back to current state parity is to provide access to the v16.1 app.  No need to rush development and testing on the v80.x.  Let those for whom the new app works continue.  Let those for whom the new app does not work migrate when core feature parity is achieved.  The last thing you want is to make the above promises and introduce new bugs.  

Yet, for unspoken reasons, this option is never mentioned.

I’m all for change and creating a new platform for the business.  I would like to see Sonos succeed.  However, I haven’t seen evidence of Sonos having the judgment to know how and when to course correct.

Best of luck.

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

Ken_Griffiths

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

The AMA (link below) seems to suggest changes to the back-end for the new App and so the old S2 App may start to not work as those changes take place. So no point going back if it’s perhaps going to then break anyway … (that’s just my own thoughts, taken from the things mentioned)…

 

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

The AMA (link below) seems to suggest changes to the back-end for the new App and so the old S2 App may start to not work as those changes take place. So no point going back if it’s perhaps going to then break anyway … (that’s just my own thoughts, taken from the things mentioned)…

 

That’s bad news as Sonos doesn’t support my broadband service does that mean I can claim money back from them?

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
G
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Keith, I appreciate you and the team trying to stem the bleeding.  I don’t envy your position of having to clean up self-inflicted consequences from management decisions.

That said, these timelines strike me as tripling down on the tone deaf and self-congratulatory  “courageous” marketing messages being sent out.

You are telling me, the market leader Sonos speakers won’t be able to add a song to the listening queue for a month.  This capability was available last week, but no longer due to an unannounced impact of the “upgrade.”  

If I tried to suggest surprising users by taking away core functionality and promising to bring it back in a month, I’d be laughed out of a job.

The most obvious way to get back to current state parity is to provide access to the v16.1 app.  No need to rush development and testing on the v80.x.  Let those for whom the new app works continue.  Let those for whom the new app does not work migrate when core feature parity is achieved.  The last thing you want is to make the above promises and introduce new bugs.  

Yet, for unspoken reasons, this option is never mentioned.

I’m all for change and creating a new platform for the business.  I would like to see Sonos succeed.  However, I haven’t seen evidence of Sonos having the judgment to know how and when to course correct.

Best of luck.

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

@jnelly there are a couple of technical reasons that may be at play here.

My guess, and it is a guess, is that the issue will relate to the size of the S2 OS on our speakers. We know that new devices have faster processors and more memory so I’m guessing that they needed to streamline S2 OS to make room to include the headphone support on older speakers. This way they are avoiding the problems they had with the S1/S2 split. They have mentioned optimising their API code.

Of course there could be other reason both technical and commercial and that is the heart of the problem. Sonos are keeping us in the dark and asking them to trust us while making decisions and releasing an app that has disrupted our use of our speakers for their primary function LISTENING TO MUSIC.

Ken_Griffiths

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

The AMA (link below) seems to suggest changes to the back-end for the new App and so the old S2 App may start to not work as those changes take place. So no point going back if it’s perhaps going to then break anyway … (that’s just my own thoughts, taken from the things mentioned)…

 

That’s bad news as Sonos doesn’t support my broadband service does that mean I can claim money back from them?

That’s not something I can personally answer @skullc, but I know that Sonos have always published their system requirements and a list of incompatible hardware. It might also be the case of looking at the issue (in a similar way) based on the service being provided by your ISP, or router manufacturer too, I guess.

Whenever I’ve had incompatibility issues develop,  I try to work with the manufacturers or service providers ‘Support Desks’ to see if things can become compatible through software/firmware updates. If not, then you or I, each have the choice to change supplier... so in your case you can move away from Sonos (which I think you have mentioned you are doing anyway), or move away from your ISP/router manufacturer. Those choices are your own of course. 

I’ve been with my current ISP for years, it’s not the cheapest, but their service is fine. I nearly always use my own router however and have probably changed router three, or four, times in the last 6 years and currently using a Plume mesh, which is a cloud based (annual) subscription service and I’ve worked with their Support Desk in the distant past to resolve issues, such as Amazon Prime TV App being blocked by their cloud filtering service etc. but now all is good and Plume quickly fixed it. So I’ve no plans to move on at this point until perhaps something better comes along, I’m on a WiFi-6AX setup, but will likely move to 6E later in the year, but I plan to get the Sonos Headphones first… assuming those are going to be launched soon

B
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

I’m curious, for those technically fluent, what is going on, in Sonos backend with resources, that they refuse to offer reversion to the previous instance in this app.? It was the same with the update a few years ago, that changed the bass sound profile.

​​​​​@Leefc makes perfect sense with his suggestion. There must be something difficult on Sonos’ side in not offering this?

The AMA (link below) seems to suggest changes to the back-end for the new App and so the old S2 App may start to not work as those changes take place. So no point going back if it’s perhaps going to then break anyway … (that’s just my own thoughts, taken from the things mentioned)…

 

That’s bad news as Sonos doesn’t support my broadband service does that mean I can claim money back from them?

That’s not something I can personally answer @skullc, but I know that Sonos have always published their system requirements and a list of incompatible hardware. It might also be the case of looking at the issue (in a similar way) based on the service being provided by your ISP, or router manufacturer too, I guess.

Whenever I’ve had incompatibility issues develop,  I try to work with the manufacturers or service providers support desks to see if things can become compatible through software/firmware updates. If not, then you or I each have the choice to change supplier... so in your case you can move away from Sonos (which I think you have mentioned you are doing anyway), or move away from your ISP/router manufacturer. Those choices are your own of course. 

I’ve been with my current ISP for years, it’s not the cheapest, but their service is fine. I nearly always use my own router however and have probably changed router three, or four, times in the last 6 years and currently using a Plume mesh, which is a cloud based (annual) subscription service and I’ve worked with their Support Desk in the distant past to resolve issues, such as Amazon Prime TV App being blocked by their cloud filtering service etc. but now all is good and Plume quickly fixed it. So I’ve no plans to move on at this point until perhaps something better comes along, I’m on a WiFi-6AX setup, but will likely move to 6E later in the year, but I plan to get the Sonos Headphones first… assuming those are going to be launched soon

Do you have a large local music library you listen to using Sonos?  Have the short comings of the new app affected your music enjoyment?  

Ken_Griffiths

@BVRBVR,

My local library is 25,697 tracks in total, I usually browse it by Artist or Album and it has its own .m3u playlists that I also use. I’ll be happy when I can search it and miss the index down the side, but otherwise it’s not affecting my music enjoyment, but I do use streaming services too.

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

@Ken_Griffiths 

i have 5g broadband which works way better than the virgin cable I had before and is 20 times faster than the dsl I had before that.

sonos original s2 works fine as well as all other devices in my home 

I game on pc and Xbox and stream 4k movies on Apple TV, fire tv and google with no issues 

to arbitrarily dismiss one form of internet is odd to say the least but what is stranger is moving the controls of an in home speaker system to the cloud is bizarre but thanks for your response 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
B
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

@BVRBVR,

My local library is 25,697 tracks in total, I usually browse it by Artist or Album and it has its own .m3u playlists that I also use. I’ll be happy when I can search it and miss the index down the side, but otherwise it’s not affecting my music enjoyment, but I do use streaming services too.

My local library is similar in size. Also, I really miss the queue features. My disappointment isn’t as understated as yours. Since I haven’t been using the app without these features I don’t know how many other issues I would find. Fortunately, I have another phone that was not updated, but, obviously, this is not a long term solution.

Ken_Griffiths

@Ken_Griffiths

i have 5g broadband which works way better than the virgin cable I had before and is 20 times faster than the dsl I had before that.

sonos original s2 works fine as well as all other devices in my home 

I game on pc and Xbox and stream 4k movies on Apple TV, fire tv and google with no issues 

to arbitrarily dismiss one form of internet is odd to say the least but what is stranger is moving the controls of an in home speaker system to the cloud is bizarre but thanks for your response 

What’s odd here is I have a 5G travel router… this one:

I use it when travelling/glamping or taking my speakers to outdoor family events BBQ’s/Grandkids parties etc. often with 2 x Move (gen2) + 2 x Move (gen1) and sometimes two Roams - it’s WiFi credentials are stored on my Sonos system.

I have no issues with it at all and works fine with Sonos - it’s WiFi is 6AX.

In the past I’ve seen others say they can’t get such routers to work and the only difference I could see is the mobile network provider - perhaps some are blocking certain ports perhaps required by Sonos. 🤷‍♂️

My thoughts in such a case is to keep the hardware and perhaps change the ISP. I should just add my device isn’t locked to any particular provider.

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

@Ken_Griffiths

i have 5g broadband which works way better than the virgin cable I had before and is 20 times faster than the dsl I had before that.

sonos original s2 works fine as well as all other devices in my home 

I game on pc and Xbox and stream 4k movies on Apple TV, fire tv and google with no issues 

to arbitrarily dismiss one form of internet is odd to say the least but what is stranger is moving the controls of an in home speaker system to the cloud is bizarre but thanks for your response 

What’s odd here is I have a 5G travel router… this one:

I use it when travelling/glamping or taking my speakers to outdoor family events BBQ’s/Grandkids parties etc. often with 2 x Move (gen2) + 2 x Move (gen1) and sometimes two Roams - it’s WiFi credentials are stored on my Sonos system.

I have no issues with it at all and works fine with Sonos - it’s WiFi is 6AX.

In the past I’ve seen others say they can’t get such routers to work and the only difference I could see is the mobile network provider - perhaps some are blocking certain ports perhaps required by Sonos. 🤷‍♂️

My thoughts in such a case is to keep the hardware and perhaps change the ISP. I should just add my device isn’t locked to any particular provider.

Lol

ok it’s not my isp that tells me Sonos doesn’t work it’s Sonos help desk even though all my speakers work 

SVC won’t install but that’s recent after a firmware update a few months back it stopped working so I tried to reinstall 

in the time I have had my Sonos speakers with 4 different 5g home router’s and my eero mesh system I have had zero network issues 

however that being said the latest update does not inspire me with confidence 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

@Ken_Griffiths 

oh forgot to mention I am a retired network engineer so am able to manage port forwarding and have to for my Xbox to get around double Nat issues 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
R

Another vote for previous app. The new one is so slow in comparison to previous version. 

P
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Now I'm getting pop up messages in the android app telling me that unless I update i will have ”limited functionality”. Can't add new services or even access existing ones.

Problem being that the new app is severely limited in features and functionality.

Sonos, I'll update when I am able to use my system how i did previously. Think you're bang out of order in how you are approaching the rollout of new version!

 

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

Now I'm getting pop up messages in the android app telling me that unless I update i will have ”limited functionality”. Can't add new services or even access existing ones.

Problem being that the new app is severely limited in features and functionality.

Sonos, I'll update when I am able to use my system how i did previously. Think you're bang out of order in how you are approaching the rollout of new version!

 

Hasn’t happened on my iOS 16.1 version yet thankfully 👍

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
Ken_Griffiths

@Ken_Griffiths

oh forgot to mention I am a retired network engineer so am able to manage port forwarding and have to for my Xbox to get around double Nat issues 

I don’t double NAT normally (not that it causes an issue), nor even ‘bridge’ the (provided) ‘ISP router’, as my ISP router has a modem only setting. It does happily work in bridge mode too, or I can ‘quickly’ swap and ‘bridge’ the Plume hubs to the ISP device - Sonos will work in any mode I select.

I’m not a network engineer, but it’s not exactly rocket science when it comes to the majority of Home-based mesh networks, is it?

Never had an issue with Sonos on the LAN, which I personally choose to run on mesh WiFi, rather than SonosNet. The only thing I like to do with Sonos, is to reserve the device IP addresses high up in the subnet to ensure they stay out the way of most other devices when they reboot en-mass, post firmware update.

Admittedly I do that because I have a lot of ‘other’ devices on the network, besides Sonos.

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

@Ken_Griffiths

I use sonosnet but all my devices are on my mesh router either wireless or via my 16 port switch and I reserve IPs on all my devices not just Sonos 👍

my 5g router is always in bridge mode 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

Now I'm getting pop up messages in the android app telling me that unless I update i will have ”limited functionality”.

 

The irony! 😂

P
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Now I'm getting pop up messages in the android app telling me that unless I update i will have ”limited functionality”.

 

The irony! 😂

Whoever wrote the pop up message obviously has a sense of humour

Ken_Griffiths

@Ken_Griffiths

I use sonosnet but all my devices are on my mesh router either wireless or via my 16 port switch and I reserve IPs on all my devices not just Sonos 👍

my 5g router is always in bridge mode 

I don’t understand, I thought you said you were using double Nat?

skullc
Userlevel 7
Badge +12

@Ken_Griffiths

I use sonosnet but all my devices are on my mesh router either wireless or via my 16 port switch and I reserve IPs on all my devices not just Sonos 👍

my 5g router is always in bridge mode 

I don’t understand, I thought you said you were using double Nat?

Nope the isp on 5g does but I circumvent it mainly because of the Xbox as it affects gaming but I have worked around it

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless

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