Spotify Volume Leveling / Normalization

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39 replies

Ken_Griffiths

 

Sonos rarely, if ever, comment about something that is ‘owned/controlled’ by their partners.

I call that passing on the buck every chance they get, under a convenient cover story.

Then we will perhaps have to ‘politely’ disagree, as the information/data needed to do this is clearly ‘owned’ by Spotify. It’s certainly the place to start at the very least to get the answers to these questions. Only if they do share the information required, do I see it relevant to begin to ask such questions here.

As @ratty said earlier “…Confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos”. 

K

I’m sure it won’t affect those users like yourself on S1 systems anyway @Kumar, as such new features would likely be destined just for S2 hardware.

I don’t make a point of writing here only on what will benefit me; to my mind, that is a puerile approach.

But I take the point that people are more interested in the unscientific benefits of Hi Res audio, so this aspect almost certainly won’t get the attention it deserves, a loss to all Sonos users that care about the listening experience as opposed to those that chase bits and bytes.

I opened a thread here on this topic four years ago, and there was not one response:-). Had it been a thread on Hi Res, it would have been like a flower to bees.

https://en.community.sonos.com/wireless-speakers-228992/volume-normalisation-across-albums-sources-for-consistently-high-quality-sound-6764671

I am just as annoyed with Amazon on this subject - they do not offer this via Spotify Connect/Amazon Music Cast when it transfers the music stream to Echo devices. But at least one can give a volume up/down command quickly via voice as needed, although this is also an irritating thing to have to do. Instead, Amazon is chasing the HD nonsense, even by pulling the cheap stunt of calling CD format as HD. And which, I suspect, Sonos is copying.

But hopefully sometime in the future Amazon will equip Echo devices with this feature and it will be a simple and cheap matter then for me to get it on my Sonos set up by replacing the Echos that are wired in to it.

Without going to S2..:laughing:

B
Userlevel 2

Thank you for your reply, I’ll check it out.

K

Ugh, another large corporation that completely ignores obvious user demand for a feature that would be of tremendous value to users and cost the company fuck all to implement. :rolling_eyes:

I agree that doing this would be far more useful than faffing around with the red herring of Hi Res audio, but I don't think any other make offers this either; it is not that easy to implement for music from streaming services, I suspect. 

Spotify offers this for music played on the phone, and it is then available on Sonos if the phone audio is sent to Sonos via bluetooth; but that is a clunky way when Spotify connect can move the music stream to Sonos - but via that mode, normalisation is lost.

ratty

Spotify offers average track volume information for every music file, that’s how the spotify app can normalise volumes.

Please confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos via the cloud interface to Spotify.

 

It can’t be that hard to build that functionality into the sonos app.

The Sonos app doesn’t touch the stream. It’s a remote control. The functionality that's so ‘easy to build’ would have to go into all of the players.

B

Spotify offers average track volume information for every music file, that’s how the spotify app can normalise volumes.

Please confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos via the cloud interface to Spotify.

 

It can’t be that hard to build that functionality into the sonos app.

The Sonos app doesn’t touch the stream. It’s a remote control. The functionality that's so ‘easy to build’ would have to go into all of the players.

Wait wait, on the one hand you want to make the claim that the spotify app is just a remote control, and doesn’t touch the stream, but on the other hand you also want to make the claim that the availability of the normalisation data matters to sonos? Have your cake and eat it too, much? So which is it?

ratty

Spotify offers average track volume information for every music file, that’s how the spotify app can normalise volumes.

Please confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos via the cloud interface to Spotify.

 

It can’t be that hard to build that functionality into the sonos app.

The Sonos app doesn’t touch the stream. It’s a remote control. The functionality that's so ‘easy to build’ would have to go into all of the players.

Wait wait, on the one hand you want to make the claim that the spotify app is just a remote control, and doesn’t touch the stream, but on the other hand you also want to make the claim that the availability of the normalisation data matters to sonos? Have your cake and eat it too, much? So which is it?

Read again before diving into the cake. I said the Sonos app is just a remote control.

The stream interface is between the Sonos player and the service’s servers. That’s where normalisation metadata would have to be available.

K

Spotify Connect also does not deliver normalisation when used with an Echo device; the only way to get that is to connect the phone via bluetooth to the Echo . Again, a clunky way. 

I suspect that the same would apply to Google smart speakers.

@BadgerMan : When you say that Spotify can put normalisation into your dumb speakers, presumably this is via a bluetooth connection to them, or via a wire to their line in jacks. The latter would also work with Sonos kit that has line in jacks.

ratty

All dealt with here: 

Spotify offers average track volume information for every music file, that’s how the spotify app can normalise volumes.

Please confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos via the cloud interface to Spotify.

 

It can’t be that hard to build that functionality into the sonos app.

The Sonos app doesn’t touch the stream. It’s a remote control. The functionality that's so ‘easy to build’ would have to go into all of the players.

Wait wait, on the one hand you want to make the claim that the spotify app is just a remote control, and doesn’t touch the stream, but on the other hand you also want to make the claim that the availability of the normalisation data matters to sonos? Have your cake and eat it too, much? So which is it?

Read again before diving into the cake. I said the Sonos app is just a remote control.

The stream interface is between the Sonos player and the service’s servers. That’s where normalisation metadata would have to be available.

 

It’s definitely possible - not sure if this is a new feature from spotify but average volume is available for any track, see https://developer.spotify.com/documentation/web-api/reference/#object-audiofeaturesobject. 

 

So, ratty, what you’re saying is that the Sonos player devs are not sufficiently talented to have the player use an API to get the loudness data from Spotify, as availability pointed out earlier in this very thread. Nice.

 

That’s twice you’ve misrepresented my statements.

ratty

The stream interface is between the Sonos player and the service’s servers. That’s where normalisation metadata would have to be available.

So that means that the Spotify app on the phone can do this when it interfaces with the servers. Why then can Sonos not do the same? Technical or commercial reasons for not doing this?

 

No idea, but see here:

 

B

All dealt with here: 

Spotify offers average track volume information for every music file, that’s how the spotify app can normalise volumes.

Please confirm that the normalisation data is made available to Sonos via the cloud interface to Spotify.

 

It can’t be that hard to build that functionality into the sonos app.

The Sonos app doesn’t touch the stream. It’s a remote control. The functionality that's so ‘easy to build’ would have to go into all of the players.

Wait wait, on the one hand you want to make the claim that the spotify app is just a remote control, and doesn’t touch the stream, but on the other hand you also want to make the claim that the availability of the normalisation data matters to sonos? Have your cake and eat it too, much? So which is it?

Read again before diving into the cake. I said the Sonos app is just a remote control.

The stream interface is between the Sonos player and the service’s servers. That’s where normalisation metadata would have to be available.

 

It’s definitely possible - not sure if this is a new feature from spotify but average volume is available for any track, see https://developer.spotify.com/documentation/web-api/reference/#object-audiofeaturesobject. 

 

So, ratty, what you’re saying is that the Sonos player devs are not sufficiently talented to have the player use an API to get the loudness data from Spotify, as availability pointed out earlier in this very thread. Nice.

 

That’s twice you’ve misrepresented my statements.

To be fair, you haven’t exactly been charitable to the points I’ve been making either. Pointing out that the Sonos ‘app’ is just a remote control so that you can later on dodge what I’m very obviously saying about the player, on a reasonable interpretation, isn’t a great way to treat what I’ve been saying.

K

The stream interface is between the Sonos player and the service’s servers. That’s where normalisation metadata would have to be available.

So that means that the Spotify app on the phone can do this when it interfaces with the servers. Why then can Sonos not do the same? Technical or commercial reasons for not doing this?

 

No idea, but see here:

 

I just read that. What I still don't understand that if that be the case - that the data isn't available - how does the Spotify app on the phone pull off this trick when played on the phone...why would Spotify want to hide this data from others, if that is what they are doing.

K

 

Sonos rarely, if ever, comment about something that is ‘owned/controlled’ by their partners.

I call that passing on the buck every chance they get, under a convenient cover story.

K

If the Sonos approach is to sit back and let the ownership of the quality of the listening experience of their customers pass to some one else…there is little more to say, unless one is a dyed in the wool defender of all that Sonos does.

And unlike Apple, it isn't as if Spotify has aspirations of selling hardware. 

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