SONOS...don't be silent about V8 backlash

I also think Sonos may have long term plans for the new interface that we are not yet privvy to.
Or it might just be that someone decided to cut corners and copycat the apple music player instead of doing proper research. It sure would explain a lot.

Leaving aside the visuals (and I know they matter), here is what has changed:

1. There is a new navigation bar, which takes you to the key screens from one place. You need a room or rooms, and you need some music. You can Browse for it (i.e. go to a list of sources), Search for it, or go to your personal Favourites and Playlists. If you want non-day-to-day stuff it is on the More button. It seems to me that is logical and easy once you get it
What hasn't helped is not having the bar visible on the Now Playing screen, which has added to the navigation hassle. Strong rumours that will change.
2. This all ties up with the fact that the contents of the old main menu have been split to correspond to those buttons. It all hangs together.
3. Favourites have been split into types. This seems to me to be helpful in principle, but spoiled in practice by the over large icons - but that can be fixed.
4. The 'quick grouping' facility has been added. The main effect of this seems to have been users mistaking it for the proper rooms management screen. This seems to me the source of much confusion and frustration.

I would see these as generally positive changes, currently imperfectly executed, with the better organisation muddied by some visual flaws.

Finally, I am absolutely convinced that 'intuitive' is mostly just 'what I am used to', and this sort of backlash always happens with this sort of change. (Let me say again, that does not mean that I think all the criticisms are invalid.)

That is my attempt at a rational analysis of what has happened. You are free to disagree.

I think John B's comments, just about sums things up.

I also think Sonos may have long term plans for the new interface that we are not yet privvy to. My thoughts are perhaps being able to limit the tabs for use in some kind of party mode, or being able to access your own favourite music tracks and playlists at a friends house, or maybe other locations.... or having multiple accounts available on one controller that gives family members access to their own Favorites and Playlists.

It appears some folk are presently seeing the change to the interface as being unnecessary at this point in time, but they may not be thinking about the 'wider' potential future possibilities.

My thoughts are that the new 'individual' tab screens on the main controller bar, will eventually bring about some further 'innovative' Sonos development. The cosmetic issues that many seem to talk about now, are not really that significant and I’m sure will soon be fixed... it’s what comes after that, that I’m looking forward to.

Repeatedly where? Like I asked very clearly, SONOS needs to post their intentions FRONT AND CENTER on the support page or a sticky post on this forum. I am NOT going to read through hundreds of posts to get a few morsels of SONOS response.

Repeatedly on pretty much every relevant thread, including the sticky one announcing the new app:
https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/now-available-the-new-sonos-app-6791306

There are definite areas for improvement in the new app, mostly not difficult to implement. I'm hoping that the 8.2 app incorporates some of these improvements.

What is more likely - that the few positive people are trying to convince each other that negative comments are being posted by the same set over and over?
When I posted my reply that's exactly what the conversation had gotten to: "Always amusing how changes trigger these visceral responses, with often the same people who complained bitterly about the previous update now claim it was beautiful. It never ends, lol."

It's obvious though that most of the negative comments are from people with no prior history on this forum.

so the ratio of many negatives to few positives on a forum of posters is largely meaningless
Looking at the app ratings on the play store, that's open for interpretation. More importantly though, the inherent imbalance between positive and negative comments does not mean that negative comments reflect a small minority of the customer base at all times, regardless of how much negative feedback you might be receiving.

At a certain point, you do need to acknowledge that there is indeed a problem.


And to get the negative commenters to understand that most of the negative aspects go away with some learning and that both negative comments and relearning based hiccups are things that are an inseparable part of every upgrade?
While familiarity does indeed play a role, the current issues are more fundamental than that, as they are often about basic usability and efficiently. And that doesn't change no matter how used you may have gotten to the new interface.

Changing rooms for example has become incredibly more cumbersome than in the previous version. Even if you are fully used to the new process, you still need numerous additional clicks, often jumping from the top of the screen to the bottom and back, to get that done. And Why? No-one can tell, as the previous approach with the little drop down underneath what's playing was a lot more straightforward.

Same story with the screen design to select a speaker where you now need to scroll while previously you didn't for the same amount of information, Again, that will remain less efficient. doesn't matter how used you may have gotten to it,

And why does that matter so much? Because most people do not care about how pretty that interface looks, they just want to quickly change what is playing and where and continue with what they were doing. So when you make that harder, is no more than normal that people get upset.

And to add insult to injury, Sonos doesn't even properly acknowledge all this, except for some empty 'we value you feedback'-like statements (hence this thread).

And the irony in the same set that attacked the prior version when it was released now pining to go back to it?
That's actually quite logical. The current version is worse than the previous one, while the blue version in turn was better than that previous version.

The problem is much bigger this time though as some of the most basic functionality is impacted quite significantly, without any meaningful improvements to compensate. Previously it was more of a mixed bag, with some elements changing for the better, while others changed for the worse. This time around however there's little benefit to be found.

The way this is done can be abrupt at times, I agree; but consider the circumstances for this - when this has to be done the nth time on the nth thread on the same beaten to the death subject, it isn't easy to be otherwise..
There is an alternative and that's to demand form Sonos that they user test their new interfaces, and actually take feedback into account during a beta. That way, by the time the new update rolls out, the kinks have been ironed out, and you don't get a huge backlash when you force people to upgrade (something you shouldn't be doing in the first place, especially when confronted with a backlash).

You just don't treat people that have often payed several thousands for your hardware as a bunch of insignificant guinea pigs that should roll over when you say so.

On the other hand, there are a small set of negative posters that offer constructive and calm feedback that do not get this kind of response.
While that's true for some posters, like John B for example who wrote that guide, that's certainly not the case for all of them.

Posters like jgatie are just being aggressive and rude, and no more that that. Blaming people for not getting with the program - while refusing to acknowledge the sound argument they bring to the table - is not something you can call constructive.

Leaving aside the visuals (and I know they matter), here is what has changed:

1. There is a new navigation bar, which takes you to the key screens from one place. You need a room or rooms, and you need some music. You can Browse for it (i.e. go to a list of sources), Search for it, or go to your personal Favourites and Playlists. If you want non-day-to-day stuff it is on the More button. It seems to me that is logical and easy once you get it
What hasn't helped is not having the bar visible on the Now Playing screen, which has added to the navigation hassle. Strong rumours that will change.
2. This all ties up with the fact that the contents of the old main menu have been split to correspond to those buttons. It all hangs together.
3. Favourites have been split into types. This seems to me to be helpful in principle, but spoiled in practice by the over large icons - but that can be fixed.
4. The 'quick grouping' facility has been added. The main effect of this seems to have been users mistaking it for the proper rooms management screen. This seems to me the source of much confusion and frustration.

I would see these as generally positive changes, currently imperfectly executed, with the better organisation muddied by some visual flaws.

Finally, I am absolutely convinced that 'intuitive' is mostly just 'what I am used to', and this sort of backlash always happens with this sort of change. (Let me say again, that does not mean that I think all the criticisms are invalid.)

That is my attempt at a rational analysis of what has happened. You are free to disagree.

It's quite obvious the positive comments are all from the above 3 accounts, and 1 or 2 others.
Quite; but exactly what does the quoted observation prove?

Simply highlighting the irony of a small inner circle on this forum convincing each other the negative comments are being posted by the same set of people time and time again.

If anything that arguments applies to 'all' these positive comments. And that's assuming you can call these often aggressive and rude remarks positive.

It's quite obvious the positive comments are all from the above 3 accounts, and 1 or 2 others.
Quite; but exactly what does the quoted observation prove?

Always amusing how changes trigger these visceral responses, with often the same people who complained bitterly about the previous update now claim it was beautiful. It never ends, lol.

You noticed those usernames too . . .

V7 favourites were unstructured and had zero customisability. V8 has structure and minimal customisability. I understood perfectly what you said. I do find the separation useful, although I too would like greater choice. Maybe I am odd but I rarely go looking for a favourite playlist then decide to put on a talk radio station instead

Sonos has not been silent at all. Recently a Sonos rep said the following:

There are lots of big plans around the new app, voice control, and the future of Sonos, and it's moving a lot faster than we ever have before. I can't speak to what's coming next, or when, because software development takes time and things come up that change dates all the time.

The team is hard at work looking at feedback and criticism, and they will continue to do so as we develop the software, and hardware too for that matter. Feedback on the community tends to include a lot of criticism because having concerns is far more motivating when it comes to offering suggestions compared with enjoying a new design. We got a lot of feedback and some great constructive suggestions which will be getting fed into future versions of the app. This is just the start of the new design for the controller.

I think you've already shared some great feedback in other threads that has been passed up, but if you have any other suggestions please feel free to share.

Thanks!

He and others have repeatedly stated they are collecting feedback and relaying it to the development teams and that there will be changes coming soon, with others coming later.

The trouble with this is, of course, that while they're dicking around with all sorts of stuff that works and doesn't work, we're forced to endure it all. Feels a LOT to me like Microsoft Windows all over again (a perfectly wonderful Windows 7 is replaced by POS 8, and then 10, over the protests of HUGE numbers of users.) And even there, the users have the option of a transitional period in which to find a replacement, and Microsoft made concessions with settings that could make 8 and 10 behave more like 7. With Sonos, you just come home from work one day, go to turn on some music, and find that you've been gifted with a new, inferior design, whether you like it or not. No options. Take it, or turn off your hardware that you paid hundreds (or even thousands) for. The problem isn't change, it's forced change with no warning or accommodation for those who are very enamored of and accustomed to the current version.

. This is just the beginning of the new app, so you'll see revisions as we build.

And that's the problem right there!

You forced people to upgrade - from a reasonable functional controller - to some kind of early release.

Just roll this back until you get it right.

Thanks for sharing that post, jgaite.

My apologies if it seems we've been quiet, I can assure you that we're reading everything posted and talking about your feedback here as we continue to develop the app. We'll keep on working on the software and you'll see some changes soon with more to come. This is just the beginning of the new app, so you'll see revisions as we build.

We'd love to get your feedback and suggestions as we go.

Just a note, things like playback problems and rooms not responding aren't likely to be app related, so if you do experience this sort of problem, it's best to contact us and do some troubleshooting. Those are almost certainly fixable and caused by something environmental.