Question

Chromecast in S2 / Honest timeline for Chromecast

F
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Hello,

Agenda: Chromecast support on Sonos.

I’ve been reading through this forum about this topic, and basically can’t find any clear answer - apart from ‘we’ll pass this request to developers’.

As an iPhone user I know I can use Airplay however I don’t find it a very good solution; I get a phone call, music stops, walk out the house, music stops, not to mention my battery constantly draining.

Additionally as good (in its own way) the Sonos app is, many services don’t give their respective platforms enough attention, rather spending it on their native apps - many of which support Chromecast.
e.g. I often find myself on Soundcloud native iOS app, find a set I want to listen, but then have to go into Sonos’s app and search it again. Similar use case with YouTube music, and Youtube in general, need to use Airplay.

So I’d like to ask:

  • Are there are Sonos developers here who could comment on the challenges of implementing Chromecast and what the potential timeline of release (if its realistically possible) looks like.
  • Otherwise, would be very keen to hear from other users what the technical/business limitations for not implementing it.
  • Would the S2 operating system surprise us all with it?

Cheers,

FP.

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34 replies

F
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Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

Acquire
Userlevel 1

Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

As I stated before, I doubt disagreement on the API is the reason there’s no chromecast/Sonos integration.

Correct. SONOS would have to implement some Google hardware which Google would have to want to give to them. I personally don’t see this happening. the only solution I see is the one I just detailed.

Plenty of high quality wireless speakers, Harman Kardon and bang and olufsen for example (you can find more on Google's Chromecast built in site), have Chromecast built in. This is a Sonos only problem.  Sonos hasn't said why, but for some reason they don't want to support it or maybe they can't due to their own past technical decisions.  They still only support 2.4ghz WiFi and even then older versions of it.

Acquire
Userlevel 1

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

F
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Also as a general answer to my original post:

Airplay 2 basically solves this whole scenario for me. I wasn’t aware what I fundamentally disliked about Airplay has been solved with Airplay 2 - I can take calls, make videos etc whilst using it, also it doesn't appear to be draining my battery as hard - feel as if its pulling music directly from the internet rather than passing bit by bit through my phone (but haven’t yet fully researched into the technical workings of it).
(I’m yet to test Youtube Music directly from their native app, which has background play, but generally feel that will be ok too).

Of course, Chromecast would be great, but that feels now more of a nice to have (at least under my use case) :)

G

I don’t think I’m the only one here in this situation, but I’ve basically frozen my Sonos purchase plans now for years because of the lack of google assistance support.  Waited forever for it to show up (didn’t purchase any more during this time), and when it finally does, you can’t cast to them, and you can’t group them with other speakers like you can with other google capable speakers.  Best you can do now (which is better than before) is have home assistant use one of your sonos speakers and have it use a sonos group for some multi room audio.

Considering that they seem to have implemented everything for Amazon and Apple and for what ever reason Google is a third class citizen, and it’s what I’m primarily using, that means moving forward I’m not really all that interested in buying more Sono’s products.  Simply because of years of what appears to be an afterthought for support.

I had already bought 6 speakers prior to this.  And not a single one in the last few years.  But I would’ve.  I’m paused now because I don’t want to reinvest if I don’t have to, the longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes I will have to.  Sonos isn’t that great of a product that they can’t be replaced by something that does have broader connected home support.

Just something for the bean counters to consider.

M
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So far as I can tell, Google is keeping Chromecast hardware-based. That is, there is no software-only implementation that I am aware of at this point. All of the devices that tout “Chromecast built-in” have some form of hardware that probably Google provides or controls. 

BTW, I think the “Chromecast method” of having authentication and routing similar to Spotify Connect but working for a host of apps is absolutely brilliant. And I don’t think anyone else but Google can truly pull this off, as all of these apps have had to implement the token exchange. So I truly understand why you really want this.

F
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Of course, my 3 bullet points in the original post stand - if anyone has any info on those - appreciated.

Acquire
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Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.

 

 

Sounds like you’re saying that Google defines the standard API? Kinda odd way of looking at it.  Also not sure what ‘many services’ you’re referring to.  And yes, Sonos has their own APIs, but they shown willingness to use others, like airplay 2, when it makes sense to.  That makes me think lack of chromecast with Sonos isn’t due to disagreements on what API to use. 

 

  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

So if Google defines the standards and won’t work with non-standard, i.e. not their own, integrations, you’re saying they won’t do integrations unless it’s done their way.  And not sure what casting implementations you’re referring to.  Most of casting done to Sonos is an actual transfer of playback from a device to Sonos, so that the original device is no longer needed for playback.  I’ve done with Amazon, Pandora, SXM, and never run into issues.

Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

M
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I don’t think I’m the only one here in this situation, but I’ve basically frozen my Sonos purchase plans now for years because of the lack of google assistance support.  Waited forever for it to show up (didn’t purchase any more during this time), and when it finally does, you can’t cast to them, and you can’t group them with other speakers like you can with other google capable speakers.  Best you can do now (which is better than before) is have home assistant use one of your sonos speakers and have it use a sonos group for some multi room audio.

Considering that they seem to have implemented everything for Amazon and Apple and for what ever reason Google is a third class citizen, and it’s what I’m primarily using, that means moving forward I’m not really all that interested in buying more Sono’s products.  Simply because of years of what appears to be an afterthought for support.

I had already bought 6 speakers prior to this.  And not a single one in the last few years.  But I would’ve.  I’m paused now because I don’t want to reinvest if I don’t have to, the longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes I will have to.  Sonos isn’t that great of a product that they can’t be replaced by something that does have broader connected home support.

Just something for the bean counters to consider.

I’ll give you my perspective:

I don’t think SONOS will ever incorporate Chromecast - this is a mixture of Google wanting to keep the tech close to it (all Chromecast built in solutions use either special hardware or run Android OS). There is likely some licensing/fee issue with Chromecast as well. 

SOLUTION: Get a Chromecast Audio Dongle and attach it to one of the devices that can take an input (Arc, Amp, Port, etc). This works just fine.

 

SONOS seems to be implementing it’s own Chromecast equivalent - it is available in the TIDAL app. I would expect other apps to add it eventually. Spotify has Spotify Connect which was the first of these casting technologies and works well.

M
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Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

As I stated before, I doubt disagreement on the API is the reason there’s no chromecast/Sonos integration.

Correct. SONOS would have to implement some Google hardware which Google would have to want to give to them. I personally don’t see this happening. the only solution I see is the one I just detailed.

Plenty of high quality wireless speakers, Harman Kardon and bang and olufsen for example (you can find more on Google's Chromecast built in site), have Chromecast built in. This is a Sonos only problem.  Sonos hasn't said why, but for some reason they don't want to support it or maybe they can't due to their own past technical decisions.  They still only support 2.4ghz WiFi and even then older versions of it.

Correct. They all implement a hardware solution from Google. So SONOS would have to implement the same/similar hardware solution. What is unclear to me is whether SONOS wants to implement someone else’s hardware (and what it means for licensing agreements since SONOS is not just a speaker, it is a streamer as well), whether Google sees themselves as a SONOS replacement, and any issues in between.

 

Honestly, I think Chromecast native on SONOS will never materialize. There are workarounds like the one I mentioned above that frankly work pretty well.

Airgetlam

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

Bruce
M
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Woooh - update!

I just tested, looks like Airplay 2 behaves differently. I’m playing a song on Soundcloud, Airplay2 from my iPhone, placed a phone call, been running fine now for 1min 46 seconds. (wonder how long the buffer is there? Or is it really pulling directly from the source)

Lets test Youtube now.

Turn off your phone - if it still plays it’s working like Chromecast, if it doesn’t it is going through your phone.

F
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@Airgetlam 
Interesting - I never knew that. So out of interest what is it on Google’s side that needs to be implemented?

M
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Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

As I stated before, I doubt disagreement on the API is the reason there’s no chromecast/Sonos integration.

Yeah. Pretty sure this has nothing to do with implementation technicalities. From what I have seen, all Chromecast built-in devices either run the Android OS or have some form of hardware built in to do Chromecasting. Like I said before, I would bet the issue has more to do with licensing and fees than anything else, but obviously I don’t know.

M
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Actually, I am fairly confident that Chromecast will not be part of SONOS at all. The reason is that S2 includes a casting mechanism similar to Chromecast. Call it “SONOScast”  :grimacing::grinning:

 

If you run the TIDAL app on an iOS device, you will now see your SONOS speakers as a possible output. This is not Airplay (which is also available) but true casting. I checked this by running TIDAL, playing to the SONOS speaker, then killing the TIDAL app: the music did not stop.

 

So this is good because it also allows SONOS to tailor the casting code to accomodate high res or things the Chromecast cost might not support. But it’s a bummer because all apps will have to add SONOScast support. Right now it looks like only TIDAL has it (I also use Qobuz, SoundCloud, Bandcamp, and MixCloud).

melvimbe

Actually, I am fairly confident that Chromecast will not be part of SONOS at all. The reason is that S2 includes a casting mechanism similar to Chromecast. Call it “SONOScast”  :grimacing::grinning:

 

 

Are you sure about this?  Specifically something called ‘SONOScast’?  googling the word references a 3rd party app.  Casting to Sonos speakers from various streaming apps has been around from quite sometime now.  I’ve seen and used casting from Amazon, Google, Pandora, and SXM before, but never heard it referred to as Sonoscast.  

 

My understanding was that the various servious just used the existing Sonos APIs to transfer playback from a device to Sonos speakers on your WiFi network, or through the cloud when applicable.

Danny
P

I’ve been waiting for the Chromecast support as well but I don’t think it’s going to happen with S2 :(

I hadn’t realized that you can cast from Spotify and Google Play Music, let’s see if they add the option to Youtube Music once Play Music is buried for good.

There’s still a ton of apps and users that would benefit from the Chromecast support. Harman Kardon has Chromecast support…

 

Moderator edit: Removed profanity

Smilja

The rightsholder Google would be required to allow the integration, and work close with Sonos on it.

Why do you think Chromecast would not drain your phone’s battery? Trust me, it would.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
M
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Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

So far as I can tell, Google is keeping Chromecast hardware-based. That is, there is no software-only implementation that I am aware of at this point. All of the devices that tout “Chromecast built-in” have some form of hardware that probably Google provides or controls. 

 

I don’t think SONOS will have Chromecast capabilities. If you definitely want such, you can go these routes:

1- Get a Chromecast Audio dongle (discountinued but can be found on Ebay) and connect it to a Port, Amp or Connect (2nd gen for S2) via it’s analog audio output

2- Same as above but connect it via toslink (optical digital) to a Playbar or (via the optical-HDMI adaptor) to an Amp, Arc, etc via HDMI

3- A Chromecast built-in TV (with either built-in or via a Google Chromecast dongle) then to an Amp, Arc, etc via HDMI

 

I think realistically these are your only options.

F
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Woooh - update!

I just tested, looks like Airplay 2 behaves differently. I’m playing a song on Soundcloud, Airplay2 from my iPhone, placed a phone call, been running fine now for 1min 46 seconds. (wonder how long the buffer is there? Or is it really pulling directly from the source)

Lets test Youtube now.

F
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Hmm, just remembered Youtube can’t play in the background without a premium subscription, so Chromecast holds a +1 there.

F
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Just tested another app and again was able to take a phone call whilst music played in the background. (feeling rather happy now lol)

Another question comes to mind then (maybe this isn’t the best forum to ask though) - is Airplay 2 really pulling from the source, or is this is a case of a long buffer being set somewhere?

melvimbe

Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

 

Can’t say if this works for Soundcloud as I don’t use it, but many service allow you to cast from their apps directly to Sonos.  Amazon, Pandora, and Spotify all do this.

Danny
F
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I guess Airplay 2 kind of works, although if phone switches off, music ends. Also curious to see what happens if I leave my place - will it remain playing.

Smilja

Hmm, just remembered Youtube can’t play in the background without a premium subscription, so Chromecast holds a +1 there.

 

And you think using Chromecast would circumvent Google’s Terms of Service regarding Youtube?

 

Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

 

On Android one is able to cast Google Play Music directly to Sonos using the built-in Chromecast extension as long as the Android device is online and connected to WiFi.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
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