Would You Buy an Ampless w/Digital Out "Zone Player Pro"

  • 27 September 2005
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73 replies

M
Userlevel 2
I love Sonons remote interface. I have played with it and think it’s the best thing out there. But, after much thought I won't be buying one, and sadly I discourage the people in my office who seek my advice from getting one. We went with a different product for our conference room and war room. The system just doesn't "play well with others". The variable line out doesn't integrate well with existing audio systems. I really like the remotes form factor, I could even use the amped version in several rooms in my home where I don't have complete systems, but I do not want to deploy multiple streaming media systems in my home so that I can efficiently integrate with my current audio systems. I think your customers and potential customers are screaming to you in a unified voice that they want a product with a digital output and a form factor that will fit in with their existing audio systems. Your remote's GUI and its multizone ease of use are your real selling points, and while you argue with your customers that they don't need digital outs, one of your competitors with something as simple as digital outs is going to develop an easy to use remote and leave you catching up. The meter is running and if you provide it first, I will buy your system for my home and recommend it virally, if you don't I will buy it from whoever first gives me what you have plus what I and your other potential customers want. I respect the fact that you developed the first easy to use system so I would like to see you continue to try to meet the desires of your customers. If you do so, I would be happy to purchase some, buy in to your system and facilitate your company’s success. Good luck.
D
Badge +4
the forum administrators here seem almost hostile to the customers and potential purchasers pleas for digital and fixed line level outputs.

Hostile? Examples please.

I've found SONOS to be extremely responsive to customer requests and continue to expect them to do so. Remember, this is a start-up company and I'm thrilled with their initial product lineup and am looking for greather things to come.
P
Userlevel 2
MaxwellHaus,

None of this was meant to be combative. I do feel your frustration as I think almost everyone here does, but lets not take it out on the Forum moderators.

I think/hope Sonos knows that we all want this and want it badly. Within our finite community currently over 86% of voters have said yes to purchasing an Ampless w/Digital Out Version of the Zone Player. This poll has bolstered our request further.

I wish Sonos would consider sending out an email to all registered users asking this same poll question so that they could really see the amount of interest and the amount of increased sales that would result.

Again, just the thoughts and ramblings of a happy wishful thinking Sonos owner.

Phil C.

[b]EDIT: Sales totals removed as they are not relevant to the poll.[/b]
B
Userlevel 2
I would buy one hands down as well, especially since a couple of jobs I've used these on has needed an external amp anyway because the Sonos power was simply not enough. It would be nice to have a non-heat generating component to go with the external power amp. These lil' ZP100s get HOT...even when not powering speakers.

Also (and I'm not sure whether this is the time and/or place) but I have practically begged Sonos Tech & my sales/tech rep for SOME way to talk to Sonos outside of their CR100 interface- i.e.- IR commands, RS232 protocol or even easier for Sonos to do- an IP protocol (there has to be one in place already for the desktop software). If I bought one of these units for my home theater (which I WOULD in a heartbeat) I'd be livid if i had to put down my nice AMX remote, MX3000 or (*insert fav remote here*) just to track up or track down on the Sonos unit, the pick back up the remote for the rest of my components to adjust volume, etc. Even the best planned playlist has a song you want to skip sometimes...and songs that are louder or quiter than others.

Just my $.02...
B
Userlevel 2
Oh...and I forgot to mention, just so you know...Sonos definitely listens. I was directed to this thread by an email from Sonos...very encouraging!
P
Userlevel 2
Oh...and I forgot to mention, just so you know...Sonos definitely listens. I was directed to this thread by an email from Sonos...very encouraging!

Awesome, good to know. Keeping fingers crossed...

[b]EDIT: Sales totals removed as they are not relevant to the poll.[/b]
G
Awesome, good to know. Keeping fingers crossed...

[b]Day Seven Sales Count as of 7:30 AM EST, 10/04/05, 66 Units at $499 = $32,934...Keep it coming, over 2900 views on this thread. We need more votes... 🙂 [/b]
I'm 3 zones in and planning on expanding.... so I just want sonos to make money so they can be around to support my investment.

The sales number from this pole are a joke to me... 32,934 in sales (less if they are not bought direct). You can guess what the profit is on this number. You can't pay for prototypes, let alone engineers to work on them for that number. I'm guessing you don't design this product unless your planning to sell a number in the thousands.

Don't get me wrong It would be great if Sonos could offer more products. I understand a poll is just a percentage of the market.

The more popular they ar ethe more likely you'll see additional products.
P
Userlevel 2
Geo,

All good points and very well understood.

The sales number here really do not mean anything and I agree in the scheme of things are a joke. The goal is to sell thousands of units....

The sampling here unfortunately is from a finite resource. Obviously this thread is popular as there are over 2900 views and counting. I am not sure how many are unique and actual forum members or Sonos owners, but if you are a Sonos owner and a forum member, please vote if this product interests you or doesn't.

How much R&D and design is really needed to make an ampless w/digital out Zone Player?? Besides the case design and adding the the digital output(s) the functionality would/should be exactly the same.

...Don't get me wrong It would be great if Sonos could offer more products. I understand a poll is just a percentage of the market.

The more popular they are the more likely you'll see additional products.

Just my opinion and thoughts, which I have already established as being nothing more that wishful thinking and pure market speculation, the addition of the proposed "Zone Player Pro" would help make Sonos a more popular product and complete solution.

At present I can find no other plug and play solutions that come close to the Sonos. There are many hacked solutions, but none that offer the simplicity, interoperability and elegance that is already available from Sonos.

Phil C.
M
Userlevel 2
I don't think the # of views is a good metric -> I've looked at the thread at least 6 or 7 times, myself. The number of unique views is probably way below 2900....might only be 100-200.
R
Userlevel 2
I'm guessing you don't design this product unless your planning to sell a number in the thousands.


Tens of thousands, The tooling costs alone, unless your building them yourself in your garage - which sonos obviously is not - would kill you, making an ampless model - as I have stated in other threads, would cost either the same or MORE than the current model once you factor in all the manufacturing, packaging, r&d, tooling costs, component purchaces, software revisions, etc.etc.etc.

Not to mention i'm sure the costs of the origial units would go up - since those are the ones selling, and the money has to come from somewhere.

Also keep in mind, that someone *ELSE* holds a patent on wireless streaming sound that is unamplified, so now you have 2-4% licencing fees per unit as well.

Sonos makes a great unit, its unique enough to stand on its own, and from a brief glance, i don't see any infringement on other's IP.

if you guys are SO dead set on having an ampless sonos, and money isn't really the issue, then just take out the amps.

Your asking a brand new company, to take a product they JUST launched, and totally re-engineer it, possibly years before they even hit a profit from the current unit.
P
Userlevel 2
I don't think the # of views is a good metric -> I've looked at the thread at least 6 or 7 times, myself. The number of unique views is probably way below 2900....might only be 100-200.

You are right. I edited the above to be clearer.
P
Userlevel 2
Let me preface this by saying, I may be way off base on what I am about to say and this is not meant to be combative. I am just trying to understand everything being bantered about.

...as I have stated in other threads, would cost either the same or MORE than the current model once you factor in all the manufacturing, packaging, r&d, tooling costs, component purchaces, software revisions, etc.etc.etc.

What R&D? The only components that need to be changed/added are the case and a digital output. Keep it simple and 100% compatible. No software revision should be needed or be extremely minimal. It would operate and act exactly the same as the current ZP. The software does not care about the amp. Hardware changes only include a new case and the digital ouput(s).

I will state this again, I am willing to pay the same or dare I say even more than the current ZP for this product. Can anyone name another stand alone product on the market right now that does what the Sonos does or will do if this was made available? None of the numerous media servers currently available, that I know of, can use a NAS to stream data/music from without hacking the NAS device first (unsuported firmware hacks, linux code etc). Too much trouble for most.


Also keep in mind, that someone *ELSE* holds a patent on wireless streaming sound that is unamplified, so now you have 2-4% licencing fees per unit as well.

I am not sure what you mean or where you are going here. Sonos is not streaming anything amplified, they are streaming the same data bits that every other wireless network capable device is also doing. The device itself provides the amplification. I would imagine any license fees being paid now would be the same as any they are currently paying. There should be no added cost as the intent and device operation is the same.


if you guys are SO dead set on having an ampless sonos, and money isn't really the issue, then just take out the amps.

It is not just about the amp. Sonos missed the boat by not providing a digital output from the get go with the release of the ZP. If the ZP had the digital output, most would make do and buy one and put it in there Audio/HT rack and be done with it. This has been beat to death and from some of your statements above I am not sure you have read all the related pertinent requests, reasons and forum threads related to this.


Your asking a brand new company, to take a product they JUST launched, and totally re-engineer it, possibly years before they even hit a profit from the current unit.

The proposed "Zone Player Pro" would not be a totally new engineered or even a re-engineered product. It is essentially the same product with some very minor modifications that would have minimal impact on costs per unit. The associated costs would not be an issue had it been done from the beginning. Honestly, I can not understand why at least the digital output was not included from day one and from the amount of posts and threads I am not the only one...


Not to mention i'm sure the costs of the origial units would go up - since those are the ones selling, and the money has to come from somewhere.

I disagree here and think the introduction of the proposed "Zone Player Pro" would bring a lot more customers to the table and inject a shot in the arm of increased sales. Your installed customer base is going to jump on this product and it opens the door to a whole new customer base that for one reason or the other hasn't purchased a system yet because it lacks the features being requested.

I like most here have already invested in the Sonos product and want it to succeed because it is a great product.

Good discussions guys.

Phil C.
R
Userlevel 2
Don't worry, I don't see you as combative. And you are correct, i have not read EVERY thread on this subject, there are far.. far to many. And I do actually give some credit to the digital out - but most folks are on the 'no amp for less money bandwagon' which is what my original post was in reference to .. sorry for the confusion on that.

When I was discussing IP (and i admit, it was a rather cursery inspection) there is a company out there that holds a U.S. patent specifically for :
" ... a device that may or may not be amplified which accepts a music file or stream of audio music from a PC or group of pc's [ed: ie a network] which may or may not be attached to ..."

Its not all about manufacturing costs.

While this patent doesn't talk about streaming it wirelessly, which might give SONOS an advantage on filing an application this patent could be interpreted as a 'show stopper' for Sonos, as they would have to then prove a uniqueness or an enhancement over this patent.

If they were to file an improvement on an existing patent, they might owe royalties to the previous inventor. [which at industry standard are 2-4% per unit sales volume etc.]

Just so you folks understand, it takes upwards of two years to be issued a patent, and costs roughly $50k. And thats assuming you only have 3 or 4 indepentant claims.

In a nutshell, the patent industry is not a pretty place, its very rarely straightforward in the sence that you fill out form a and get results b. Infringement can happen on any of the methods your product uses, and its financally prohibitive to investigate / protect them all.

For software, i'm sure there would have to be changes, as volume wouldn't be controlled from the SONOS unit anymore, you can't just pump up the juice to the line out now can you ? So you would have to have the ability to exclude those units from 'group volume' etc .. not a big deal im sure, but its adding one more hump to the proverbial camel's programmed back.

as for manufacturing, its not like you can just leave the amp off the board, there are entire circuts that would most likely have to be removed, rerouted, and fail-safed. The days of transistor radios is long gone saddly. Lets assume that they are producing these units where every OTHER mass produced electronics devices are produced - somewhere in asia. [China is the current favorite for large companies, and this is what I am used to dealing with so I will use it as an example.]

[We are ignoring the possibility that SONOS's application for patents has the entire schematic for the device on file, which means they would have to file again, or risk potential infringement.]

To make a production run of .. lets say .. 50k 14.4 volt cordless drills, the time to tool up is maybe 30 days. This means laying out staff and equipment to produce circutboards, manual assembly of units, packaging etc.
Changes to a circut board - for example, to add a SIMPLE variable resistance loop to make the trigger more sensative, will raise costs several dollars a unit. This is caused by factors such as having to alter the circut boards (and thus having to alter the process to etch them.) Additional components, additional training for the staff [there are below minimum wage workers in a comunist country, not exactly a go-getter-free-thinking workforce.]

And this is if the changes don't modify the PHYSICAL housing of the drill. If that changes, its a whole new level of expensive pain.

[your average power drill has some 80 plastic / metal components in it that are specially made for that tool. just getting all these parts produced in quantity can be months of nightmare.]

Add Customer service into the list, which, by the way - is the LARGEST expense to any manufacturing business. Hence why a lot of it is moving to india.

There are a LOT of factors here.

To produce two models, that essentially do the same thing - would double, maybe even tripple their operating costs, inventory levels, and assets tied up in non moving (and taxable) inventory.

In a perfect world, yes, they would do this, and market it to another corner of the customers.

But let me put on my marketing hat now :

Why would I sell this to customers for less ? this is a product that the audophile would desire, not the entry level consumer that my existing product is targeted for. Audophiles pay upwards of $600 for Polk speakers .. EACH ..

If this product were targeted towards that audiance, why on earth would any MBA worth their salt not only devalue their existing product line, but cut into their profit, to sell a professional targeted product at BELOW entry level prices ?

Especially on a product that will sell less, take longer to turn, and isn't related to their immediate core business goals. Now ask yourself, when their closest competition in this area sells similar units for almost 3X the price of thier current model, where is the business sence in pricing your units so low ?

While i agree with you, in a perfect world, were SONOS not in this to be a profitable business, and if they didn't have shareholders and investors to report to - they might consider this an additional source of revenue, or a way to capture a bigger piece of the pie that is the home audio center market. Personally, I don't have any use for non-amp units, as I have recently moved - my old house was all pre-wired, and they would have been useful there for sure. Our new house is a much nicer layout, and i actually value the sonos for the ability to be put on a bookshelf, and NOT look like a stereo component. I don't want consumer electronics to dominate my living space, call me bourgeois, but I would rather leave that to the 'best buy' crowd.

So in a nutshell - yeah, I could see how this would have some limited market appeal, but it doesn't seem to fit with what I understand of SONOS's apparant master plan. What I see here are a lot of people asking SONOS for something that *MIGHT* get them to buy into their system, assuming they are not fickle, and just looking for excuses on not to spend the money. In my (overinflated 🙂 ) opinion, this ranks right up there with the suggestions of streaming video through the sonos, and my personal arch-nemisis : insisting that the PC should be its own zoneplayer. [which is physically POSSIBLE i suppose, just mechanically improbable.]

just my 2 cents, not telling anyone how to live their life - no personal shots on anyone here, only discussion.
P
Userlevel 2
OK Rembrandt, glad to know you read me correct and we are all basically on the same page. We can agree to disagree... :)

I do not understand everything you are talking about as respects to the patent(s), but have to ask the question...What about every streaming media device out there now including PC's using wifi? They all use similar methods and technology. It is not my area of expertise so I can not really comment. On a logical level, it make no sense based upon the number of wired and wireless devices in the market that are doing or attempting to do the same thing including microsoft with its media center pc's and third party media center extenders. I can go on and on and list mfg. after mfg. with some sort wirelss music transmission and device or pc to handle it.

If you do not think the Audio/HT market is or will be the driving force to keep this product alive, I do not think you are looking at this from all angles and think you might want to take another look.

More than likely anyone who has whole house multiroom audio also has a dedicated audio/ht area that this product would serve well and that is why it is being so hotly debated here. Sonos has made it easy for everyone to have music anywhere in your house.

There is no need to separate this product form the original ZP or the Sonos Vision. It is a complimetary product that should be able to be produced along side the current ZP in concert. The problems you bring up do not seem to be major manufacturing or implementation problems. Sonos may have a problem of capital, but that is a different story. I do not know how successful the launch of Sonos has been, but have to imagine it has gone quite well and they want it to continue.

Sonos already made one mistake by not including a digital output on the ZP. If they just make that correction alone, I and plenty others would buy another unit for the use we are proposing. Buying $600 speakers does not make one an audiophile. This is not about the audiophile; however, by making this product you will not continue to alienate that market segment who typically have more disposable income to spend on these toys.

Not everyone is going to want one, but more people than not do or will. You may not want it or even think about it when you first buy your Sonos bundle, but I am willing to bet that after having and using the Sonos and seeing how well it works, many will want to intergrate one into the Audio/HT racks. The problem is most will not be happy with the current configuration and options for doing just that.

More good discussions and thoughts. Thanks.

Phil C.
R
I always wonder why some of us spend a lot of time doing elaborate analyses of why it will be difficult for Sonos to meet this or some other need and then shake their heads and say "nah, you'll never get this feature".

Our role as consumers of the product is to ask for features we consider useful. Sonos' role is to figure out how to meet that need and price it appropriately.

Still, I won't be waiting for Sonos to do it. I expect it will be a long time even after they decide to do it. So I plan to modify a ZP to add a digital-out as soon as the instructions to do so become available.
P
Userlevel 2
I always wonder why some of us spend a lot of time doing elaborate analyses of why it will be difficult for Sonos to meet this or some other need and then shake their heads and say "nah, you'll never get this feature".

Our role as consumers of the product is to ask for features we consider useful. Sonos' role is to figure out how to meet that need and price it appropriately.

Still, I won't be waiting for Sonos to do it. I expect it will be a long time even after they decide to do it. So I plan to modify a ZP to add a digital-out as soon as the instructions to do so become available.

Rodhead,

Still laughing, thanks for the dose of reality.

I wouldn't mind waiting if I new it was coming in a reasonable amount of time. I hope it comes before someone else puts out a similar product with all the pieces in place and steals the thunder and beats Sonos to the punch.

Phil C.
R
Userlevel 2
I did a little research at work today, Sonos currently is valued at a 50 million a year company. And currently only holds ONE patent application (which isn't even on wireless streaming music - its on using wired systems to stream data.) That doesn't mean that they dont have discressionaries in.

In the VC world in todays day and age, a company their size is normally valued at 10 million for each million in revenue, so one can guess that Sonos has had approximatly five million in sales so far.

Not a bad chunk, but I'm willing to bet not break even yet though.

They show a lot of promise - and i'm sure they are not intentionally alienating an established market, but the professional in me says they are not trying to 'take over' a market, but build a new one.

Think of it this way : The leading producer of powertools in the U.S.A. is a 4 billion dollar a year company. They dont focus on selling hand drills to folks who already have them - thats a losing strategy. They focus selling hand drills to people who just bought their first house - and need a drill.

People are a renewable resource, large companies (or small companies who want to become large companies) realize this eventually. There is a company out there called Games-Workshop who's one time CEO had the best quote ever .. he said :

"Our target market is 12 year old boys, When our distributors complain that poke-mon, or starwars are hurting their gaming sales in that demographic this year, ask them how many boys will turn 12 NEXT year, then ask them why they are already ignoring next years sales - to focus on customers who are turning 13, and leaving our target demographic anyways. Remind them that 12 year old boys are a renewable resource, there happen to be new ones every year - ones who don't have our product yet."

From what I see of the sonos marketing engine, they are definatly going after 'more' shelf space, not trying to take the old market away from its current suppliers.

[this is just a rebuttal to your idea that SONOS is expecting its bread and butter to be from the audio/hf market. No one knows this for sure, except the management at Sonos of course 🙂 I'm just playing the backseat VP today.]

And .. of course your right 🙂 This is a silly argument 🙂 Sonos will do what Sonos does, any company that makes its business decisions soley based on postings on an web-forum, won't be around long enough for it to matter anyways :)

as always, i do agree that a digital out would be great. seems like a simple thing to have included, no idea why it wasn't perhaps it was not stable enough.

All i know is i love my SONOS, but like everyone, i see things that could be corrected on it. I'm not saying that there are not features I would love to see, just that [aside from a few folks like you, where money isn't the driving factor - you just want specific features - costs be damned.] most folks making the 'no amp' argument, seem to be doing it from the argument that they want a lower entry price point, not due to exacting standards.

Just to play devils advocate, I do point out that stacking 5 SONOS in one pre-wired area, really just counteract then whole wireless-mesh premis of the system .. I would think that would degrade the performance of the remotes in various portions of the house, depending on walls - size etc. [This is part of what I mean about it being counterproductive to the design of the system - which was engineered to be multiple zones spread out to form a mesh - not stacked zones with a very powerful signal.]

regardless, discussion is always good .. agreement notwithstanding

... The problems you bring up do not seem to be major manufacturing or implementation problems. Sonos may have a problem of capital, but that is a different story. I do not know how successful the launch of Sonos has been, but have to imagine it has gone quite well and they want it to continue.

Sonos already made one mistake by not including a digital output on the ZP. If they just make that correction alone, I and plenty others would buy another unit for the use we are proposing. Buying $600 speakers does not make one an audiophile. This is not about the audiophile; however, by making this product you will not continue to alienate that market segment who typically have more disposable income to spend on these toys.
P
Userlevel 2
Rembrandt,

All good stuff, appreciate the patent info and sales info.

Just one more hint that the bread and butter is the Audio/HT Market. Take a look at the store locator and see who is typically selling the Sonos. Mostly custom installers and high end specialty home theater retailers. I recently visited a new Magnolia Hi-Fi that opened in my area (inside of Best Buy) and in there high end room they had the Sonos. Why do they advertise so heavily in Home Theater Magazine's...

Just teasing you a bit... 😉

Thanks again.

Phil C.
buzz

[ ... ]
Why do they advertise so heavily in Home Theater Magazine's...
[ ... ]
In my experience, SONOS is not a product for the audiophile. Many of them distrust anything digital and all have very traditional ideas about what audio equipment is and does.

SONOS customers go to audio stores because that seems to be the place to purchase audio equipment. Many of them really don't want audio equipment, they just want music. When they see the SONOS, they instantly bond with it.

Many home theater customers also want whole house audio, it's all one big project. This aspect makes "Home Theater Magazine" a decent media choice.

I wonder if some of the high end media, such as airline seating would work for SONOS (with appropriate copy).
P
Userlevel 2
Buzz,

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I agree with your assesment also. I said somewhere back that the Sonos is targeted at the middle of the road Home Theater Enthusiast and that this market is the meat and potatoes.

You know we all have slightly different ideas and uses, but one that is constant is that we wouldn't be talking about any of this if the Sonos wasn't as good a product as it is.

Voting has slowed down. I hope this has at least piqued the interest of the powers that be at Sonos and something comes of it.

We are in the middle of some remodeling and I am about to make some equipment changes also. I sure would like to know if this is a possibility anytime in the near future or not. I am getting close to trying the Escient SE-80 but trying to hold off hoping there might be a glimmer of hope for a Sonos product.

Again, thanks to all for all the good discusions and ideas here.

Phil C.
J
Userlevel 2
Hi Pciav,

We have had some problems playing music from the Escient systems to Sonos.

Just didn't want you to be caught off guard if it doesn't work with us.

-Jason
P
Userlevel 2
Hi Pciav,

We have had some problems playing music from the Escient systems to Sonos.

Just didn't want you to be caught off guard if it doesn't work with us.

-Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the info. I would be using the Escient completely as a stand alone system in my Living Room Audio/Home Theater area. I realize the two may not play well together and do not even plan on trying. What I do know though is that Escient is finally getting smart and bringing there pricing in to the affordable area. They are also planning a Q1 2006 software update to allow music to be accessed and streamed from a network attached computer and/or NAS. This is mainly why I am willing to take a chance on it.

LET ME BE EXTREMELY CLEAR ON THIS... I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BUY THE ESCIENT, I REPEAT, I DO NOT WANT TO BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT. I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS SOLUTION BUT THERE ISN'T A SONOS ALTERNATIVE FOR ME TO PURCHASE OR THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF ONE.

The current ZP is too much of a quality drop for me using it in my audio system. I have tried it as reported above. My Laptop via S/PDIF out to my Pre-Pro wins hands down over the analog out of the Sonos. There is nothing wrong with the ZP as it is for a stand alone operation, but is not up to snuff in my audio rack. I want to replace my 400 CD Changer and gain all the convenience and features of the Sonos without giving up sound quality. Just a digital output alone would solve this problem for me and many others. Sure I want an ampless 17" audio form component with a digital output, but all I really need is a digital ouput.

Jason, I realize your hands are tied at what you can say or not, but if there is any way you or someone from Sonos can provide the info I need before I make the decision to purchase the Escient it would be greatly appreciated. I do not mean here in the public forum. Email or let me know who to contact and I will. I am willing to sign an NDA for any info provided no matter what it is good or bad either way. I am willing to wait a little time if I know it is coming. If not, go forward with a clear head that I tried my best to support Sonos before making that decision.

AGAIN, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS PRODUCT. I HAVE $999 READY TO BE SPENT ON THE ESCIENT SE-80.

I know my $999 doesn't mean too much in the scheme of things to Sonos. I am sorry to rant on about what really is not that an important issue in the world right now with everything going on. Can we try to put this hotly debated and requested feature to rest some way some how. C'mon Sonos, bring some pre-christmas cheer to some very appreciative current and future Sonos owners.

Thanks for listening.

Phil C.
AndyN
Badge +3
have not bought a Sonos yet as I minimally need digital output - I don't think this is irrational in today's digital world; as someone pointed out even a $30 DVD player has one. Would take the current unit with a digital output IF the volume of the digital and analog outputs could be seperately controlled and/or selected 'max' at all times.

My ideal pro model would have IR emitter for control of existing tuner on/off/source/volume, component form factor, selectable volume adjustable or max, and I don't need the wireless mesh network as all units will be hard-wired 100mbps ethernet (i realize the latter may just be me ... and maybe it needs to be in the unit for the controller ...)

thanks for your consideration,

AndyN
Avee
I need the digital out. I can't believe that a system which will cost me thousands hasn't got this simple output.

After all, the Sonos is aiming at people who do spend loads of cash on sound equipment, I bet 'cha most of them have a d/a converter available that is better than the Sonos can ever provide in a $500 box.
Avee

LET ME BE EXTREMELY CLEAR ON THIS... I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BUY THE ESCIENT, I REPEAT, I DO NOT WANT TO BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT. I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO SPEND MY MONEY ON A SONOS SOLUTION BUT THERE ISN'T A SONOS ALTERNATIVE FOR ME TO PURCHASE OR THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF ONE.


Do you know the Hifidelio? All it lacks in comparison to a Sonos is the slick control concept, and synchronous play. It supports Wlan satellites, has digital outs, and is said to have very good audiophile qualities.

In the US, it is also sold as the "Musica"
http://www.olive.us/p_bin/?cid=01_06_musica
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