We need Audiophile Edition version of Port

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C

Went to Sevenoaks today. Walked out with the Bluesound Node. Very happy indeed. Apart from no SoundCloud support I am very happy. For a little more money the Node offers much more than the Port.

K

There is more than the sunk cost fallacy for the Topping - there is the electricity it consumes. And the footprint and additional cable clutter. 

ratty

If the Port is to be used in Fixed Volume mode then all the criticisms of the digital out’s DSP are moot. There’s no DSP in Fixed. (Equally the analog out is perfectly fine in Variable Volume mode, but one can understand why you’d want to use the Topping: sunk cost.)

Buy a Port from Sonos. Try it.  You have 100 days to return it if you don’t like it. Simple. 

C

Glad I found this thread.

Currently I have a modest system compromosing of NAD C 316BEE amp and Q Acoustic 3030i speakers with a Topping D30 DAC. Love the relationship between all three components.

Today I bought a Audiolab 6000A Play due to glowing reviews, in an attempt to get a ‘one box solution’. Dear lord! It is so bad! Not sure if the Audiolab didn’t like the Q Acoustic speakers but they sounded terrible - not to mention the god awful Play-Fi app. It is boxed back up and is going back to the supplier tomorrow.

 

So here I am again. I just want a good streamer that can connect to all my subscription services like Amazon Music, Local Plex, Soundcloud etc. I know the Sonos is perfect for that as I have a Sonos One in the kitchen and the app is just amaingly good!! If only I could implement this with the NAD in my front room.

 

Am I correct by saying even if I was to buy the Sonos Port and connect it to my Topping D30 DAC its not going to sound too good?

 

I’m just wondering if I already have the best solution out there. USB connection from my server to my DAC. Foobar on the server with the Android remote control app. Its just a PIA to VNC into my server to change from Foobar to Amazon Music and Soundcloud. Who would of thought in 2021 this would even be a problem.

T
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Personally never found a wireless headphone/earbuds that sound as good or as comfortably as the reasonably priced wired earbuds I used until they were discontinued after the removal of phone headphone inputs.   Sure losing the wires is good but for menot worth loss is sound quality and inconvenience of having to charge another device. Ok when on the move with background noise. It was how the quest started. 

buzz

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with wireless links, however, many of them are not appropriate for the audio quality you are seeking.

T
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Good thought but I don’t have a problem with my wireless headphones with Sonos  other than were not sound quality looking for so switched to wired headphones which much better. The wired headphones are so transparent and revealing that I can hear detail in songs I’ve know since a child that never heard before. They need a matching amp and source and that for me and these headphones  isn’t  Sonos so I agree with Sonos. 

buzz

Were your headphones using a wireless link when connecting through PORT?

T
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Im not saying that Sonos is painful to listen to on speakers just on my notoriously revealing headphone as I had to take my headphones off after a short period because my ears were hurting as some others have suggested. USB cable sounds a lot better and can listen as long as I want. I don’t know why just that Sonos doesn’t work as a source for my headphones. That is just my experience on my equipment.

I can completely accept that other people don’t feel the need for anything other than Sonos but clearly some people can’t  accept that someone else may prefer something other than Sonos as a hifi source. Unless they have heard my system then I don’t see how they can judge and even then it would only be a personal experience as mine is. . I am only saying I find Sonos painful to listen to on my headphones hence Sonos may not be the best option for everyone in every circumstance. It is hardly blasphemy but clearly.it is for some.

So based on my personal experience with my equipment I can see where the OP is coming from. I would buy a Sonos digital only out hifi component which can play all files and has a full range of inputs and outputs with a comparable spec to various other hif streamers on the market as I appreciate the class leading convenience of Sonos. I suspect it won’t happen as it is not the Sonos market focus and will have to look elsewhere.  

A

I don’t know why. I would put the headphones on and it would sound ok but i was disappointed if i was honest and then after a couple of songs I would have to take the headphones off because my ears hurt.

The point that people are making is that unless there was some mismatch or fault then it’s very unlikely that the sound would be ‘painful’. Whilst I have expressed concerns over the years about relative sound quality, I have never had cause to call sound from a Sonos unit ‘painful’.

The fact that this is only being seen in one specific  case - i.e. your particular headphones with your particular kit/usage/musical taste implies that there was a problem of some sort - we have no way of knowing what that may have been.

I share your dislike of the general mocking of ‘audiophiles’, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.

S
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Delusional audiophiles are SO much fun, lol. :D

And there it is...

T
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thank you for proving my point.

chicks

Delusional audiophiles are SO much fun, lol. :D

T
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Oh come on. There is regular negative attacks on hifi and the word audiophile tends to induce frothing at the mouth from some!

I don’t know why. I would put the headphones on and it would sound ok but i was disappointed if i was honest and then after a couple of songs I would have to take the headphones off because my ears hurt. It does sound like the “jitter” issue that someone mentioned above where it does sound ok but you can’t listen for long. Maybe it is to do with the coax versus USB path. Whatever the components did not work together.

My hifi DAC also didn’t work as it simply wasn’t powerful enough to match the impedance requirements of the headphones so getting an appropriate matching headphone DAC/Amp solved that problem and then the USB cable completed the picture. I didn’t pay enough attention to the needs a good source and amp in the reviews. But now with a good recording and the chain sorted it has that wow factor which I was hoping for and didn’t have before. Now I am regularly enjoying long listening sessions which I wasn’t doing with Sonos as the source. Typically when I’m thinking a recording sounds really good it is 24 bit but that could just be a better original recording. My take away is that the components need to be “matching” and for some systems Sonos may well be fine for but for others not so I would agree with the OP in my experience. . 

ratty

There was never a suggestion that Sonos was the be-all and end-all, but the notion that it could be “painful” was repetitive and tiresome hyperbole unless, as buzz suggests, there was some kind of gross fault or mismatch in the signal path.

T
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It is ok as a digital source for my ok hifi speakers so not an issue. For whatever reason it really doesn’t work with my headphones. Using a USB cable sounds good so problem solved with limited additional expense as far as I’m concerned.
 

It does mean I’m tethered and reliant on source battery so I will buy another hifi. streamer transport at some point. Ideally that would be Sonos if they produced a product as the OP suggested otherwise I will just buy something else. Not an issue now that I have finally solved the problem. But the suggestions on here that there couldn’t ever possibly be anything better than Sonos didn’t help me solve the problem which is why I want to highlight that Sonos might not be the best option for everyone in every situation. That is all. 

buzz

Given the gross results you are reporting with PORT, it is likely that there is a level or impedance mismatch on the analog side or a codec issue while processing PORT’s digital output. It is also possible that there is a different codec path for your USB output.

While there can be subtle differences between the sonics of high quality kit, we are not debating about rebranded vinegar trying to pass as wine.

T
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I’m not trilling at all. I’m am merely pointing out that listening to Sonos on my headphones was hurting my ears so I could not listen for very long as someone else also suggested was a problem with Sonos sound to illustrate that Sonos just might not be the best option for everyone in every situation. 
 

what is trolling is the constant denial and repetitive attacks from a few individuals on anyone who might suggest that other options just might have a better sound quality for some people is some some circumstances and god forbid if they mention the word audiophile. 
 

i like Sonos. The convenience is excellent just not the sound quality for me.  I have eight units.The only one I don’t use regularly anymore and would replace is the hifi component.  Sonos and streaming got me back into music.  I just don’t think it is the be all and end all and just because I find it painful to listen on my headphones is just that. 

I fundamentally agree with Sonos own view of its sound quality so that is hardly trolling. It anyone is trolling it is those repeatedly disagreeing with Sonos. 

ratty

Given the state of the world your repeated use of the work “painful” in connection with a mere audio product is verging on trollishness. 

T
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Could well be. Not saying it isn’t. I’m only saying that it is a digital signal from the source to the DAC just as Sonos passes a digital signal from the source to the DAC.  Every digital music source is ultimately processed at some point starting with the orginal recording. What I am saying is whatever it is doing it sounds way better than Sonos and is no longer painful to listen to. 

ratty

You appear to be in denial that your USB option could already be processed, on the source device. It’s just that you seem to prefer that form of processing, which is okay.

T
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Sure my DAC is taking whatever the digital signal is from the source just as my DAC is taking whatever digital signal is coming from Sonos. Whatever it is doing the cheaper USB cable option sounds way better and is no longer painful to listen to on my headphones compared to previously using Sonos as a source. I never touch EQ on a hifi as I don’t like a processed sound which is why the Sonos sound isn’t my personal preference for focused listening. 

ratty

USB is a digital connection so it is my headphone DAC which is doing the processing.

USB transmits whatever it’s been handed by the phone/app. Whether you like it or not this will have been processed, possibly through sample rate conversion and EQ. It’s okay to like what your phone is doing.

I can adjust my phone to sound pleasant over Bluetooth (aptX or LDAC). I also tweak the EQ on the Port that feeds my head amp.

For many years as an ‘audiophile’ I wrestled with component/cable matching between ‘HiFi’ devices that lacked EQ/tone controls, in order to try and get an acceptable sound. Life’s too short.

T
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Sorry I meant analog output. I understand that digital sound not processed but what ever it is doing to it in variable mode isn’t good 

 

USB is a digital connection so it is my headphone DAC which is doing the processing. For whatever reason it has solved the problem I had listening with Sonos as the digital source. 
 

Exactly each to their.own.  I use Sonos as my surround sound and I’m perfectly happy with it and have no interest in a specialist system as I’m not a film buff so I completely understand if someone says they are completely satisfied with Sonos and don’t see value in other systems. Generally I like Sonos. but I personally prefer the sound of my hifi system and it Just doesn’t work for me as my headphone source. 

ratty

Port doesn’t have an optical output. 

The data from the coax output in Fixed volume mode is not processed. It’s taken from the output of decoder.

I don’t have the means to diff the Port digital output against a WAV input, but long ago someone did this for a ZP80 and found them to be identical. I can’t imagine why Port wouldn’t be similar.

If you like what your USB connection is doing for you that’s fine. Perhaps you simply prefer the processing that’s going on in the phone.

I didn’t enjoy the Port’s variable digital output via Schiit into my HD650s as much as taking the analog out from the Port straight into the head amp. Each to their own.

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