Port review at WhatHiFi

J
Userlevel 1

A surprisingly poor review of the Port was posted on their website a few days ago. They didn’t like the:

  • Poor organisation and timing
  • Little dynamic expression
  • Severe lack of punch

For them it was step backwards compared to the Connect. Interestingly they felt these attributes remained to a significant extent even when using a quality outboard Dac. To me this doesn’t make much sense at all. Sound quality which is “as disorganised as a teenager’s bedroom” and punch which is “so lacking you almost expect its corner to throw in the towel” would surely be a primarily a function of the built-in DAC and analogue stage. By saying things weren’t dramatically improved by using a £1200 Chord DAC, WhatHiFi appear to be pointing the finger elsewhere. Jitter perhaps? Any thoughts on this?

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49 replies

jgatie

Subjective audiophile reviews are notoriously unreliable and are filled with utter nonsense?

chicks
  • Poor organisation and timing
  • Little dynamic expression
  • Severe lack of punch

Meaningless drivel. Laughable nonsense. 

M
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

That’s why, if it concerns audio equipment, I always ignore the parts of the review where they review the sound. The used technology, the options available can be classified, the sound not. Look at all the nonsense descriptions the review sites come up with to talk about how it sounds. I only trust how the device sounds to my own ears. If it sounds good, it is good. No matter what any review site has to say.

I have both the Port and the Connect and I like them both.

S
Userlevel 5
Badge +10

Subjective audiophile reviews are notoriously unreliable and are filled with utter nonsense?

Way to shoot the messenger.  Of course this is a Sonos forum so no deviation is allowed. Apparently it’s not possible for anything Sonos makes to be problematic. Meanwhile multiple reviews and reports from users say the exact same thing about the Port. One thing is for sure, it is grossly overpriced and they even raised the price already. 

N

I am a long time Connect and other Sonos products user and upgraded to the Port and don’t hear any improvement in sound.  I also have low sound output in the variable  setting which I never had with the Connect.  I also use a Bluesound Node 2i which has noticeably better sound quality with better recordings but not the stability of the Sonos mesh WiFi network, at least not for me.  I will speak with Sonos about my issues with the Port but so far I am pretty disappointed.  The Connect was a great product.  With the exception of Airplay 2 which is important to some and perhaps many users, I don’t see the advantages of The Port, at least not yet, especially not in sound quality.
 

 

P
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

But they had a very good review of the Arc and that wasnt questioned at all. :-)

It's usually bad ones when they don't have a clue.

Go to any sports forum and it’s exactly the same. Any critique of your team, or how it is run, and all hell breaks loose!

I kinda get it with sport. It’s emotional. It’s a real part of people’s lives and identity.

I find it more surprisingly when people get this emotionally invested in technology companies. Apple is the most common one I suppose. But still. It’s kinda fascinating in many ways.

U

When it comes to sound it is best to trust your own ears to judge what is or is not good enough for you, I am running a Port in the same system as a Connect and a Connect Amp and I haven’t noticed any downgrade in the sound quality with the Port. You can always utilize the new purchase return window to make your own decision without risking anything.

Local music library with carefully constructed playlists - no shuffling!, Integration with Homeseer Automation, No touch screen devices, No streaming services, No Apple products ever
jgatie

Another poor review of the Port here.  

https://www.techhive.com/article/3546333/sonos-port-review.html

 

 

More subjective nonsense.  When set for fixed volume, the digital outputs of both the Connect and Port are bit-perfect to the originals.  Any differences heard would have to be downstream, which would be the fault of the reviewer, not the Port.  Or, much more likely, the reviewer is full of it. 

Also, the reviewer stated they toyed with the EQ at one point, which means they took the Port off fixed volume, negating any level matching that was done for testing.  This fact increases the likelihood that a subtle decrease in volume is being mistaken for poor audio.  

Yet more proof why, as stated above, “Subjective audiophile reviews are notoriously unreliable and are filled with utter nonsense.”

K

While I am no longer a Sonos buyer, and I have not heard the Port, there seems to be no technical reason for either of the two review sound quality conclusions, and based on my experience with What Hifi reviews since 2002, the probability rests heavily on the What HiFi sound quality assessments being the usual BS they have been trotting out for decades now, just to have something to say. 

What HiFi remains good as source for knowing what is new in the market, and for providing good photos of new kit, features and price points, but no more - the sound quality assessments are strictly for the gullible. Not that the US cousin Stereophile is much better, except for the measurement data that is often provided in addition that can be useful if one knows what to look for - their sound quality assessments are just a subjective and heavily influenced by the price of the kit.

 

PS; I also see no reason why the Port should sound better than the Connect, given the same source material. In a level matched DBT, I would expect there to be no one that can pick between the two. Even with the Hi Res music in future, if the Connect has been supplied with the same files reformatted to what the Connect can play.

S
Userlevel 5
Badge +10

Subjective audiophile reviews are notoriously unreliable and are filled with utter nonsense?

 

There are multiple reviews saying the same thing about the sound quality of the Port.  Time to face reality.  Even on a Sonos forum.

jgatie

Plus people spend alot of $$$ on their technology and especially Sonos and can’t admit there is anything wrong.

 

You obviously haven’t read my original review of the Playbar,and my every mention of the Playbar after that.  But hey, don’t let that stop you from making this forum about attacking posters rather than opinions.

 

P
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

Plus people spend alot of $$$ on their technology and especially Sonos and can’t admit there is anything wrong.

 

You obviously haven’t read my original review of the Playbar,and my every mention of the Playbar after that.  But hey, don’t let that stop you from making this forum about attacking posters rather than opinions.

 

Chill, man... No need to get so defensive.

I mean, he did comment opinions and no poster was actually mentioned. 

K

It might be relevant to note that I would ask the same questions of a negative review of sound quality of, for example, a Bluesound unit in the media. Because none of these reviews are based on a level matched controlled DBT, and are therefore subject to reviewer bias, that makes these reviews to be subjective opinions of little use to others.

It is interesting to note that we will accept the validity of DBT as a way to weed out bogus claims for Covid vaccines, but deny the validity of the same principles when it comes to mundane home audio sound quality.

P
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

Chill, man... No need to get so defensive. 

 

No, I won’t chill.  When accused of being a fanboy by a poster whose post history shows they are only here to stir things up, I will respond with facts to the contrary.  

Whatevs 

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

I get the objective argument but for a lot of people listening to music is a subjective experience. I can not objectively  prove that my playbar sounds better than my previous basic sound bar but subjectively I’m pretty sure it does.

Different equipment does sound different. To some people it clearly doesn’t matter but some people it does. I’m a Sonos fan but there is just no way that it sounds as good as my Hi-Fi system.

There are just too many subjective reviews of the port that it is not convincing. It is  intended to link to a Hi-Fi but you google Hi-Fi streamer options they will all offer hi res. It doesn’t matter if the hi res doesn’t sound better but it does matter that you simply can’t play a recording on the port. Sonos is great but it is not the best sounding system in the world. S2 has been introduced for a reason. The Port isn’t convincing the Hi-Fi market it is intended for. Room for improvement which I’m sure Sonos is capable of. 

K

I can not objectively  prove that my playbar sounds better than my previous basic sound bar but subjectively I’m pretty sure it does.

The Port isn’t convincing the Hi-Fi market it is intended for. Room for improvement which I’m sure Sonos is capable of. 

There is no arguing that with the kind of gross differences in sound that different speakers deliver, a DBT is necessary to prove that these differences heard are not just subjective opinions. What remains subjective there, and validly so, is a preference for one over the other. So, there is no arguing with the first part quoted.

But with almost all of heard sound quality differences down to speaker quality, placement, room acoustics and recording quality, differences in sound delivered by intermediate products is so small, that conclusions can be easily affected by various well known biases; biases that a DBT seeks to eliminate. 

I can’t speak to the Port, but there has always been scepticism about the Connect too in HiFi markets, with not one DBT to back it up.

C
Userlevel 5
Badge +9

Hi

First post here, so go easy etc.

Anyway, I bought a Port to replace my increasingly unsupported (and fast approaching obsolescent) Squeezebox Touch.

I have it plugged into my Cambridge Audio Amp / Mordaunt Short speakers, I stream files (FLAC, ACC, MP3) from a home server, plus Deezer (standard, not premium), and I have to say that the Port sounds disappointing by comparison to the Squeezebox. 

The sound is indeed flat and lacking detail, and I find myself turning up the volume in a vain attempt to gain more detail - but really, I’m just upsetting my neighbours.

The Port was my first Sonos product so I can’t comment on the Connect. But compared to the Squeezebox, I would say that the review is something I can identify my own experience to.

I hope that S2 brings some improvements, but I don’t hold my breath.

Anyhoo - thought I’d share my thoughts.

 

I also replaced a Logitech Squeezebox product (the Squeezebox Duet), with the Port.  This was the old Duet - the box on the right side of the image is similar to the Port and is what connected to my system:

With the Port, there is absolutely zero difference in sound from my perspective.  Note that I am using the digital coax out from the Port to my a/v receiver, and in “fixed” volume mode (which I understand is bit perfect and doesn’t have the limiter that can kick in when using “variable” volume mode).  So maybe that’s the difference -- are you using the digital out with “fixed” volume control? 

Even if the sound quality had not been exactly the same (but it is to my ears), I would be super happy just because I now have integration with my entire Sonos eco-system.  Grouping with my Sonos Ones (I have Sonos Ones in 3 rooms) works perfectly with the Port powering my 5.1 family room system (no delay); and the Sonos app is light years less clunky than the 10 year old Squeezebox interface, and allows much easier access to music from various sources.    So I’m happy to say goodbye to the old school Squeezebox Duet and and welcome the Port as its more capable replacement and easier to use replacement.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

I strongly suspect that in the what Hi-Fi Review they played it using the variable line output. They thought it sounded awful even through a quality DAC on serious Hi-Fi because it does. Sonos admits it is distorting the sound. Switching to fixed output removes the distortion. The port is meant for connecting to hi fi but really it isn’t ideal. It is a pain keep stitching from variable to stitched output so really on the port they should fix the variable output so it doesn’t distort the sound because it it meant to play on Hi-Fi.
 

I also appreciate they may have issue with playing hires on older equipment. I’m not for a moment suggesting that hires is better per se but better quality master recordings do sound better on good quality Hi-Fi. pretty much all the alternative products offer this.

 The port is meant to connect to Hi-Fi but it isn’t actually designed with Hi-Fi users in mind. Fix the variable output and the offer hires even if it is just for the port. Fully appreciate that hi quality recordings aren’t going to sound better on other Sonos products. In fact Sonos sounds better that my Hi-Fi with poor quality pop recordings because high quality transparent Hi-Fi you can hear just how poor quality the recordings are and that they are designed to Heard- on low fidelity equipment. 
 

The connect and port make sense if you have a Sonos system but as a stand-alone piece of equipment that is meant to be for Hi-Fi it isn’t competitive. It gets poor reviews for a reason.  I’m sure Sonos are very  capable of fixing this because currently it is the weak link in their product range 

K

Pushing back against subjective opinions formed on the basis of tests that do not eliminate the influence of universal psychological biases, and being evangelical are not the same, although often such pushbacks are conveniently confused with being evangelical.

I have a different objection to both Port and Connect and that has nothing to do with sound quality - and it is that for use as a source for a HiFi system with no need for other Sonos features like syncing for multi room audio, it is a ridiculously expensive solution. Chromecast Audio demonstrated that by doing all that Connect does as a HiFi source, for 10% of the price, more than five years ago.

The trouble with Chromecast was its inability to work without a phone in ones hand for any changes to the status quo. 

Once that was solved by devices like Echo Dots for about the same price as the CCA, a standalone Connect made no sense given its price point. Wire a Dot to the input jacks of a HiFi set up and streaming services will sound as good as they do from any other source including Connect/Port. Add a cheap Raspberry PI to work as a media server for ripped CDs, and the also cheap Echo Show 5 front end will play these with album art display as icing on the cake. As will the Dot if a screen is not a requirement.

I am waiting for someone to run a well constructed DBT where the single variable is the source, changing from a Dot to a supposedly “HiFi” source that costs at least ten times as much. And, in such a DBT, for that someone to reliable pick which source is playing.

Needless to say, there will never be such a DBT, is my firm belief, because of what it will establish. 

K

Digressing a little, there is a very good exposition of the rigour of science based DBT in the second season of the TV series Fargo, where the wife of the main character has cancer and in desperation, signs up to be part of a clinical trial for a new experimental drug as a last chance. Her husband and she then ask the doctor after all aspects of the trial are explained - But how do we know if she isn't the one getting the placebo pills - and the doctor tell them that they can’t know, and neither will he. How can we ensure she gets the real drug, they ask again - You can’t, is the short answer. Never mind that this may be a life and death issue for her.

Compare this rigour to how subjective opinions are casually tossed off and then relied on to be universally applicable in the world of audio, especially in the HiFi niche of it.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

Listening to Music is subjective. People read subjective Hi-Fi reviews. So in the real world subjective views matter.

 

No one objects to a subjective view that Sonos has a great range of products. Looks good. Sounds good and has grat. ease of set up and use but that is just a subjective opinion. 
 

However this isn’t subjective. Sonos freely admit that they process the variable output sound which is contrary to what you are looking for from a Hi-Fi component. It is also a fact that the Port can’t play music formats the majority of Hi-Fi streamers competitors can play. It is is hardly surprises that it isn’t getting great industry and consumer reviews   Ignoring criticism and technology changes isn’t  a great business Model.   For sure many technology changes disappear but some replace existing technology.

 

Sonos was born in the a time of lower bandwidths. That has and  is changing. I suspect that Sonos has introduced S2 for a reason.

 

Like it or not the  Port just isn’t Sonos most compelling product if you are only looking to add a streamer to a Hi-Fi. 

P
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

Hi

First post here, so go easy etc.

Anyway, I bought a Port to replace my increasingly unsupported (and fast approaching obsolescent) Squeezebox Touch.

I have it plugged into my Cambridge Audio Amp / Mordaunt Short speakers, I stream files (FLAC, ACC, MP3) from a home server, plus Deezer (standard, not premium), and I have to say that the Port sounds disappointing by comparison to the Squeezebox. 

The sound is indeed flat and lacking detail, and I find myself turning up the volume in a vain attempt to gain more detail - but really, I’m just upsetting my neighbours.

The Port was my first Sonos product so I can’t comment on the Connect. But compared to the Squeezebox, I would say that the review is something I can identify my own experience to.

I hope that S2 brings some improvements, but I don’t hold my breath.

Anyhoo - thought I’d share my thoughts.

 

P
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

 

The Port was my first Sonos product so I can’t comment on the Connect. But compared to the Squeezebox, I would say that the review is something I can identify my own experience to.

I hope that S2 brings some improvements, but I don’t hold my breath.

 

 

I see no reason for S2 to have any impact on your finding. And I haven't heard the Port, just my two Connects bought at different times, both of which are audibly transparent in passing on the signals for amplification. But Sonos would not have played around with this transparency while building the Port, there is no reason for them to do that. And getting this transparency isn't rocket science now.

A question: in comparing with SB, did you do just that one change of replacing one unit by another, with no other hardware or source signal change? And although it appears you have addressed this aspect, sound levels being heard through the speakers also have to be identical.

Finally, an admittedly unlikely possibility: a defective Port unit.

Yeah, I'm not expecting S2 to have any effect either. It's more of a hope…

 

And to answer your question, everything about my set up is exactly the same as it was when I had the SB.

I guess it's possible that I have a faulty unit. Or maybe the SB was just a superior unit to the Port? I don't know. 

It's not a bad sound per se. It's just noticeably not as good as the SB. 

S
Userlevel 5
Badge +10

Plus people spend alot of $$$ on their technology and especially Sonos and can’t admit there is anything wrong.

jgatie

Chill, man... No need to get so defensive. 

 

No, I won’t chill.  When accused of being a fanboy by a poster whose post history shows they are only here to stir things up, I will respond with facts to the contrary.  

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