Dealing with HDMI ARC issues on Amp and input choices

Show first post
This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

66 replies

T
Badge +2

There is nothing intrinsic to TOSLINK (optical) that will cause lip sync issues, but processing inside the TV could cause trouble. Note that there will always be a slight latency (about 35ms) between HDMI audio input to AMP and output. Latency is about 75ms for analog Line-In.

Cheap analog ground isolators are not always effective enough. If you try a few cheap, ineffective isolators, Jensen will eliminate your ground loop, but may be uncomfortably expensive.

As a quickie trial, try disconnecting the cable TV feed from your cable box. The CATV feed is a very common source of ground noise. Properly grounded CATV feeds are not usually much of an issue. There are ground isolators that can be installed in the CATV feed, but they often disrupt the signals. Again, the cheap isolators are more likely to be problematic.

Thanks - a lot of useful information in there!

But as to the TV source: We are out beyond cable and normal satellite internet and TV sucked so badly I dropped them. (I found a source for internet through a cellular modem for internet.) For TV, I have a digital antenna that (eventually) connects to a HDHomeRun Flex 4K that can tune to 4 channels at a time. The input for this is coax. Output is through my LAN. For “normal” TV, I have several Apple TVs and use the app Channels DVR on them for viewing (and a server version of it on a Linux based media server for DVR service).

On this particular entertainment center setup, the inputs are only the Apple TV and my Sony BD, so there is no cable box.

T
Badge +2

 

  1. Keep the “Line In” setting all the time, so it’s not lost every time there’s a power flicker or outage.

Do you have Line-In Autoplay activated? If not, please go to Settings » System » [Amp Room] » Autoplay (under Line-In section). This should make the Amp switch to Line-In after the reboot, assuming the source is still playing. If it doesn’t, you should be able to mute then unmute the source via the remote which will then trigger the autodetection (though I think you may need 5 or 10 seconds of silence for it to work).

 

More on this.

Somehow it’s marked as the answer, but it DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I did this and tested - the Amp was still on Line-In, as it was before I did this. But now, every time we watch TV, I have to switch from HDMI to Line-In. Before I only had to switch if there was a power flicker, now, EVERY TIME, I have to change it to Line-In. My wife HATES it because it makes it harder for her to watch TV by herself since she can’t just use the Harmony universal remote and turn everything on at once.

Why Sonos can’t store this kind of setting in non-volatile RAM, like every other freaking device on the planet has done since somewhere around 2010 is beyond me. I spend extra for SONOS and every time the system loses power, I have to regroup everything and change settings like this. That is SO 2005!

 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @TangoMe 

Once a thread has been quiet for a few days, we are required to mark Best Answer if it has not already been marked, and when we mark it, we always go by what the original question was. I’ve unmarked my response.

I did this and tested - the Amp was still on Line-In, as it was before I did this. But now, every time we watch TV, I have to switch from HDMI to Line-In. Before I only had to switch if there was a power flicker, now, EVERY TIME, I have to change it to Line-In. My wife HATES it because it makes it harder for her to watch TV by herself since she can’t just use the Harmony universal remote and turn everything on at once.

It sounds like you disabled Autoplay, not enabled it. Please turn Autoplay back on again.

Why Sonos can’t store this kind of setting in non-volatile RAM, like every other freaking device on the planet has done since somewhere around 2010 is beyond me. I spend extra for SONOS and every time the system loses power, I have to regroup everything and change settings like this. That is SO 2005!

As I mentioned earlier, it’s not a setting - it’s a state. All the settings are saved - like Autoplay, for example, or your WiFi credentials. I recommend you aim for resolving the power interruptions, but removing noise on the cable should help.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
T
Badge +2

Though most TV’s I know have four HDMI-inputs, I recognize your problem. This will get worse when only a few of them are equipped with eARC for example, that is needed for Atmos and some game consoles. Sonos made a choice, to use the TV as an HDMI hub, instead of letting the soundbar work as such as other manufacturers do. For most users, especially Sonos users this is less complex. For users with more needs this creates a problem.

When using a switch you do not have to stop using other HDMI’s though.

That’s about what I mean: Sonos is thinking, “Do this our way or forget it.” I seriously doubt it would take more hardware to make it work both ways, just software. But why bother? Just tell people to do it “our” way.

The problem with using the other HDMIs is that it can be tough with a projector. The entertainment center is often in front of the room and the projector in the back. In our barn, I have two HDMI cables, but the house is a few years older and I was lucky to get them to put one in. (I usually try for extras on things like that, but it doesn’t always work.) But also, with both projectors I have, and one is a $5,000 model, so it’s not cheap, and it’s from 2019, so it’s not ancient there are only two HDMI ports.

I did try to use the 2nd HDMI port on the barn projector, but, in that case, using both HDMI cables means some devices go through the switcher that provides HDMI and optical audio out and one doesn’t. It’s a lot easier for me, with the projectors, to use a switcher for HDMI.

T
Badge +2

I'd put it more mildly: Sonos made choices that (they think) work best for their audience ("has money, but no technical knowledge and is not about to get that"). So they've tried to make things as simple as possible. When it is not simple anymore their audience is lost, for instance when something's awry on the wifi front. If this simplicity does not work for you, you're not part of the Sonos audience.

The Arc is meant to work with a TV and only a few connected devices. You want to connect more devices and work with a projector. I very much understand you want Sonos too, but maybe you want to much and so need to look elsewhere.

I didn’t see this earlier, but since I just posted that the Line In autoplay feature still refuses to work properly, I’m looking again.

I think you’ve misunderstood a lot of the issue. “As simple as possible” means, “Works ONLY for these situations.” There are ways the issues I’m talking about can be addressed and things kept simple. I suspect the ARC issue could be handled with software. If so, a setting could be created for it and it could be buried deep in settings so people don’t change it by accident. Or, as is the case every time I have to select “Line In” for my AMP, there could be a warning about what turning off ARC will do.

I get that it’s meant for people who aren’t digging into things, but this setup also rules out most setups with projection TVs. I don’t know what the thought process was that ignored that issue. Maybe the Sonos staff don’t have projection TVs and this issue is outside of their experience, so they haven’t thought about it. Many projection TVs don’t have sound at all. You’re talking about "has money?" I don't know if I qualify for that, but when we set up our barn system, I did spend because I’ve wanted a home theater setup since the days when you had to use 16mm projectors to do that. The projector I use is about $5,000 and does not do sound at all.

It doesn’t have Android or any other OS on it and can’t do streaming. It’s intended ONLY as a video devices. This is not atypical of projectors. Some have sound, but rather cheap, because most people with projectors are using a sound system of some type already. In the case of LCD TVs, for example, the TV may be the hub, but with a projector, the hub is with the devices. In fact, there may not be a single device as a hub. In my case, and, apparently, in many cases, multiple devices are fed into an HDMI switcher.

In that case, to work with Sonos, either the switcher needs to provide ARC (and some good ones don’t, or at least didn’t in 2019, last I was shopping for them), or ALL the devices need to have ARC - and the latter isn't going to happen.

So, @Corry P, when you and others discuss my other thread as a feature request, please make sure they understand this issue: A lot of projection systems are quite expensive and do NOT have ARC. It’s short sighted of Sonos to make people spend another $200 on a device to provide ARC after they’ve already spent thousands on the rest of their system.

And with my AMP, after shelling out for that much for something like that, for me to have to continually go in and reset it to Line In or to have to pay another $200 for a device to add ARC is, again, short sighted. It makes using AMP or any other device that requires ARC a pain (or useless) with a good projection system.

Before this issue showed up, I was planning on replacing my PLAYBAR with an ARC. At that point I didn’t realize ARC was a protocol (again, see what I’ve said about projection TVs), but I quickly decided not to and have been researching what I can replace that Sonos 5.1 system with because, clearly, if Sonos devices require ARC, they’re not equipped to handle home theater with a projection system.

melvimbe

I didn’t see this earlier, but since I just posted that the Line In autoplay feature still refuses to work properly, I’m looking again.

 

 

I’m surprised the Line In autoplay feature isn’t working for you, but I don’t use line in personally, so I can’t really comment on that.  However, the line in isn’t designed for use with a TV or projector anyway.  I didn’t see this suggested yet, but you can use the optical adapter to convert an optical signal to HDMI-ARC for use with the Amp.  If your TV can out optical, you’re done.  And there are plenty of devices out there that can extract optical from HDMI, many that include HDMI splitter functionality if your TV doesn’t do optical output.  I would have gone route over trying to use the line in, and I use autoplay for that all the time.  

 

I think you’ve misunderstood a lot of the issue. “As simple as possible” means, “Works ONLY for these situations.” There are ways the issues I’m talking about can be addressed and things kept simple. I suspect the ARC issue could be handled with software. If so, a setting could be created for it and it could be buried deep in settings so people don’t change it by accident. Or, as is the case every time I have to select “Line In” for my AMP, there could be a warning about what turning off ARC will do.

 

 

I don’t think the HDMI port could be that easily modified by software.  You may not be aware of this since you aren’t using an ARC/eARC capable TV, but the HDMI cable between the Amp (or Beam or Arc) connects to the HDMI IN marked ARC on the back of the TV.  It’s an INPUT on the TV.  That means the HDMI port on the Amp is an OUTPUT.  Indeed, if you set the TV to the input connected to the Amp, you would see a Sonos screensaver image.  The ARC audio, actually flows backwards.

So, what your saying is that the HDMI port on the back of the Amp could be converted form an OUTPUT to an INPUT through a software change and flip fo a switch in configuration.  Maybe, I don’t know enough about the tech, but it seems like a bit of a tall order.

 

I get that it’s meant for people who aren’t digging into things, but this setup also rules out most setups with projection TVs. I don’t know what the thought process was that ignored that issue. Maybe the Sonos staff don’t have projection TVs and this issue is outside of their experience, so they haven’t thought about it. Many projection TVs don’t have sound at all. You’re talking about "has money?" I don't know if I qualify for that, but when we set up our barn system, I did spend because I’ve wanted a home theater setup since the days when you had to use 16mm projectors to do that. The projector I use is about $5,000 and does not do sound at all.

 

 

I would guess they had marketing data that showed that the vast majority of customers had optical or ARC capable TVs, or would rather soon.  I think they saw that the majority of projector owners tended to have wired dedicated home theatre setups. I also think a lot of customers would have not have been ok with a single HDMI input, no passthrough to the TV.  I think they didn’t want to have to create a new gen of a device just because video standards changed.  I am guessing, but I have little doubt that there are lots of impacts to this that we generally don’t think about.

 

It doesn’t have Android or any other OS on it and can’t do streaming. It’s intended ONLY as a video devices. This is not atypical of projectors. Some have sound, but rather cheap, because most people with projectors are using a sound system of some type already. In the case of LCD TVs, for example, the TV may be the hub, but with a projector, the hub is with the devices. In fact, there may not be a single device as a hub. In my case, and, apparently, in many cases, multiple devices are fed into an HDMI switcher.

In that case, to work with Sonos, either the switcher needs to provide ARC (and some good ones don’t, or at least didn’t in 2019, last I was shopping for them), or ALL the devices need to have ARC - and the latter isn't going to happen.

 

Pretty much no HDMI switcher provides ARC.  Those that are labeled with ARC that you’re seeing are designed to take an ARC signal from your TV, not generate an ARC signal like a TV does.  The big exception to this is the HD Fury Arcana, which a lot of people on here have.  Mostly so that we don’t rely on TVs to do any audio processing, or if the TV doesn’t have eARC.  It doesn’t work with Arc though, as the optical/ARC solution works fine for most who need ARC.

There are some other products coming out that include a built in switcher, but they aren’t really available yet.

 

So, @Corry P, when you and others discuss my other thread as a feature request, please make sure they understand this issue: A lot of projection systems are quite expensive and do NOT have ARC. It’s short sighted of Sonos to make people spend another $200 on a device to provide ARC after they’ve already spent thousands on the rest of their system.

 

 

So you know about Arcana already?

 


And with my AMP, after shelling out for that much for something like that, for me to have to continually go in and reset it to Line In or to have to pay another $200 for a device to add ARC is, again, short sighted. It makes using AMP or any other device that requires ARC a pain (or useless) with a good projection system.

Before this issue showed up, I was planning on replacing my PLAYBAR with an ARC. At that point I didn’t realize ARC was a protocol (again, see what I’ve said about projection TVs), but I quickly decided not to and have been researching what I can replace that Sonos 5.1 system with because, clearly, if Sonos devices require ARC, they’re not equipped to handle home theater with a projection system.

 

For the amp, getting an HDMI/optical extractor + the Sonos dongle should cost way below $200.  If you want higher audio codecs through the Beam or Arc, you would need the $200 Arcana, yes.  From what I’ve seen more soundbars are coming out as ARC/eARC only, that seems to be the way things are going  

 

I get that this is not great for projectors, but I will say that I like the idea of having a  setup with sources connected to switching/converting device which then connects directly to TV/projector and soundbar/audio system, sending the best quality signal the devices can handle to each.  Your video doesn’t pass through your audio equipment, and your audio doesn’t pass through your video equipment.  When you want to upgrade your audio or video, you don’t have to replace your whole system because passthrough limitations.

Danny
T
Badge +2

I didn’t see this earlier, but since I just posted that the Line In autoplay feature still refuses to work properly, I’m looking again.

 

 

I’m surprised the Line In autoplay feature isn’t working for you, but I don’t use line in personally, so I can’t really comment on that.  However, the line in isn’t designed for use with a TV or projector anyway.  I didn’t see this suggested yet, but you can use the optical adapter to convert an optical signal to HDMI-ARC for use with the Amp.  If your TV can out optical, you’re done.  And there are plenty of devices out there that can extract optical from HDMI, many that include HDMI splitter functionality if your TV doesn’t do optical output.  I would have gone route over trying to use the line in, and I use autoplay for that all the time.  

 

There’s no optical input on the AMP. There is on the Playbar (only that and RJ45s), and on the Playbar, it has sync issues.

I think you’ve misunderstood a lot of the issue. “As simple as possible” means, “Works ONLY for these situations.” There are ways the issues I’m talking about can be addressed and things kept simple. I suspect the ARC issue could be handled with software. If so, a setting could be created for it and it could be buried deep in settings so people don’t change it by accident. Or, as is the case every time I have to select “Line In” for my AMP, there could be a warning about what turning off ARC will do.

 

 

I don’t think the HDMI port could be that easily modified by software.  You may not be aware of this since you aren’t using an ARC/eARC capable TV, but the HDMI cable between the Amp (or Beam or Arc) connects to the HDMI IN marked ARC on the back of the TV.  It’s an INPUT on the TV.  That means the HDMI port on the Amp is an OUTPUT.  Indeed, if you set the TV to the input connected to the Amp, you would see a Sonos screensaver image.  The ARC audio, actually flows backwards.

So, what your saying is that the HDMI port on the back of the Amp could be converted form an OUTPUT to an INPUT through a software change and flip fo a switch in configuration.  Maybe, I don’t know enough about the tech, but it seems like a bit of a tall order.

 

Okay, good point, and I have to wonder why nobody explained this to me earlier, and I see that as an issue, but this leads to other questions:

  1. Does that mean the design is that my TV has TWO inputs - one from Sonos and one from the video source?
  2. If the HDMI port is for output, then what am I supposed to use as INPUT for the AMP? (It has an HDMI port, two RJ45 ports, and post connectors for audio in and out.)
  3. Where is the audio input on the ARC, which has an HDMI port and an RJ45 connector?

 

 

I get that it’s meant for people who aren’t digging into things, but this setup also rules out most setups with projection TVs. I don’t know what the thought process was that ignored that issue. Maybe the Sonos staff don’t have projection TVs and this issue is outside of their experience, so they haven’t thought about it. Many projection TVs don’t have sound at all. You’re talking about "has money?" I don't know if I qualify for that, but when we set up our barn system, I did spend because I’ve wanted a home theater setup since the days when you had to use 16mm projectors to do that. The projector I use is about $5,000 and does not do sound at all.

 

 

I would guess they had marketing data that showed that the vast majority of customers had optical or ARC capable TVs, or would rather soon.  I think they saw that the majority of projector owners tended to have wired dedicated home theatre setups. I also think a lot of customers would have not have been ok with a single HDMI input, no passthrough to the TV.  I think they didn’t want to have to create a new gen of a device just because video standards changed.  I am guessing, but I have little doubt that there are lots of impacts to this that we generally don’t think about.

Stll, this keeps them out of the Home Theater market for those with projectors. It may not be the biggest market, but it’s being exclusionary when there’s no need to be.

It doesn’t have Android or any other OS on it and can’t do streaming. It’s intended ONLY as a video devices. This is not atypical of projectors. Some have sound, but rather cheap, because most people with projectors are using a sound system of some type already. In the case of LCD TVs, for example, the TV may be the hub, but with a projector, the hub is with the devices. In fact, there may not be a single device as a hub. In my case, and, apparently, in many cases, multiple devices are fed into an HDMI switcher.

In that case, to work with Sonos, either the switcher needs to provide ARC (and some good ones don’t, or at least didn’t in 2019, last I was shopping for them), or ALL the devices need to have ARC - and the latter isn't going to happen.

 

Pretty much no HDMI switcher provides ARC.  Those that are labeled with ARC that you’re seeing are designed to take an ARC signal from your TV, not generate an ARC signal like a TV does.  The big exception to this is the HD Fury Arcana, which a lot of people on here have.  Mostly so that we don’t rely on TVs to do any audio processing, or if the TV doesn’t have eARC.  It doesn’t work with Arc though, as the optical/ARC solution works fine for most who need ARC.

There are some other products coming out that include a built in switcher, but they aren’t really available yet.

I’ve looked at the Arcana, which looks like a useful device, but I resent the idea that, to get my AMP working decently with this, I had to pay $700 (which is a nice chunk, especially when it’s so limited in options and design setups and I still have to use my own speakers) and then still pay another $200 for it to work decently.

I’m more likely to use that for the theater setup in the barn, with the big screen and Godzilla (my name for the projector there - named after a laser setup for a show from the 70s) than for the house, but, still, it’s kind of sad Sonos doesn’t work with this - and if the HDMI is an output, again, where does the sound data from the TV go in?

 


And with my AMP, after shelling out for that much for something like that, for me to have to continually go in and reset it to Line In or to have to pay another $200 for a device to add ARC is, again, short sighted. It makes using AMP or any other device that requires ARC a pain (or useless) with a good projection system.

Before this issue showed up, I was planning on replacing my PLAYBAR with an ARC. At that point I didn’t realize ARC was a protocol (again, see what I’ve said about projection TVs), but I quickly decided not to and have been researching what I can replace that Sonos 5.1 system with because, clearly, if Sonos devices require ARC, they’re not equipped to handle home theater with a projection system.

 

For the amp, getting an HDMI/optical extractor + the Sonos dongle should cost way below $200.  If you want higher audio codecs through the Beam or Arc, you would need the $200 Arcana, yes.  From what I’ve seen more soundbars are coming out as ARC/eARC only, that seems to be the way things are going  

 

I’m confused at this point. As I mentioned, AMP has no optical connectors. Omitting the RJ45s (since you’re not going to get good sync if you send the audio over a LAN (and I don’t think any video players do that), there are only two possible inputs: Audio post (analog) and HDMI, which you say is an output.

The HDMI switch does have a TOSLink optical output, though. (I use that on the big system to connect to the Playbar - but, as I said, it’s got sync issues.)

So if I use this dongle, I’m not at all sure how I’d set it up with the AMP.

 

 

I get that this is not great for projectors, but I will say that I like the idea of having a  setup with sources connected to switching/converting device which then connects directly to TV/projector and soundbar/audio system, sending the best quality signal the devices can handle to each.  Your video doesn’t pass through your audio equipment, and your audio doesn’t pass through your video equipment.  When you want to upgrade your audio or video, you don’t have to replace your whole system because passthrough limitations.

Here’s what makes sense to me: Use HDMI cables and connectors for the whole shebang. I get that seems to be the way it’s going. But it seems clear to me (if not to Sonos) that there are going to be high end systems that do NOT use ARC/eARC. I get that there may be sync issues, but, again, that kind of thing can be in the settings - you have to turn on NON-ARC HDMI and when you do, you get a warning about sync issues and so on.

Thank you for a well thought out reply!

melvimbe

 

 

I’m surprised the Line In autoplay feature isn’t working for you, but I don’t use line in personally, so I can’t really comment on that.  However, the line in isn’t designed for use with a TV or projector anyway.  I didn’t see this suggested yet, but you can use the optical adapter to convert an optical signal to HDMI-ARC for use with the Amp.  If your TV can out optical, you’re done.  And there are plenty of devices out there that can extract optical from HDMI, many that include HDMI splitter functionality if your TV doesn’t do optical output.  I would have gone route over trying to use the line in, and I use autoplay for that all the time.  

 

There’s no optical input on the AMP. There is on the Playbar (only that and RJ45s), and on the Playbar, it has sync issues.

 

 

Read what I wrote again and click on the link to the optical adapter.  It will make sense then.

 

 

Okay, good point, and I have to wonder why nobody explained this to me earlier, and I see that as an issue, but this leads to other questions:

  1. Does that mean the design is that my TV has TWO inputs - one from Sonos and one from the video source?

 

Essentially yes...if you were looking at the back of your TV.  HDMI 1 (usually where ARC is) would connect to Sonos (and show a screensaver) , and HDMI 2 and the rest would be your video sources.  The TV knows to send all audio via the ARC channels to Sonos.

  1. If the HDMI port is for output, then what am I supposed to use as INPUT for the AMP? (It has an HDMI port, two RJ45 ports, and post connectors for audio in and out.)

 

Think of INPUT/OUTPUT as labels for the two ends of your HDMI cable rather than actual flow of data.  Your video data will always flow from INPUT to OUTPUT.  There is always audio data that also flows from INPUT to OUTPUT along with the video.  ARC (Audio Return Channel) flows in the opposite direction, from the OUTPUT side to the INPUT side. So for the HDMI cable between Sonos OUTPUT side) and TV (INPUT side)...Amp/Beam/Arc said video (screensaver) to the TV, and TV sends ARC channel audio back to the TV.  There is also bidirection CEC communication going on, but not vital to this discussion.

  1. Where is the audio input on the ARC, which has an HDMI port and an RJ45 connector?

 

 

Follows the same logic as I just talked about.

 

 

Stll, this keeps them out of the Home Theater market for those with projectors. It may not be the biggest market, but it’s being exclusionary when there’s no need to be.

 

 

Yes it does, not unless you use some additional adapters and such.

 

I’ve looked at the Arcana, which looks like a useful device, but I resent the idea that, to get my AMP working decently with this, I had to pay $700 (which is a nice chunk, especially when it’s so limited in options and design setups and I still have to use my own speakers) and then still pay another $200 for it to work decently.

 

 

You don’t need Arcana for the Amp, as you can use optical with it, via the adapter I mentioned earlier.  Arcana doesn’t work with ARC anyway, it’s eARC only.  It’s useful for the Sonos Arc and the Gen 2 Beam.

 

I’m confused at this point. As I mentioned, AMP has no optical connectors. Omitting the RJ45s (since you’re not going to get good sync if you send the audio over a LAN (and I don’t think any video players do that), there are only two possible inputs: Audio post (analog) and HDMI, which you say is an output.

The HDMI switch does have a TOSLink optical output, though. (I use that on the big system to connect to the Playbar - but, as I said, it’s got sync issues.)

So if I use this dongle, I’m not at all sure how I’d set it up with the AMP.

 

 

With the dongle, HDMI side connects to the Amp.  Optical side connects to your optical cable.  Basically, the optical signal is coverted over to the channels in HDMI  cable for ARC audio.

 

 

Here’s what makes sense to me: Use HDMI cables and connectors for the whole shebang. I get that seems to be the way it’s going. But it seems clear to me (if not to Sonos) that there are going to be high end systems that do NOT use ARC/eARC. I get that there may be sync issues, but, again, that kind of thing can be in the settings - you have to turn on NON-ARC HDMI and when you do, you get a warning about sync issues and so on.

Thank you for a well thought out reply!

 

There are older setups that don’t use ARC/eARC, but everything (sans projectors and small TVs) are going to have ARC/eARC.  For one thing, it’s the only way to get anything more than dolby 5.1 audio out of your  smart TV when your using an embed steaming app and not an HDMI source.

I would agree the ARC/eARC is confusing and possibly not the best solution to solve the issues of sending audio around to the right places, but it is the standard that’s been adopted and implemented.  The old way of having HDMI cables where data only flowed in one direction were easier to understand, but they have limitations too.

 

 

Danny
T
Badge +2

@melvimbe :

Okay, looking over everything, I see what you’re saying: Don’t look at input or output in relationship to the device, but in relationship to the cable.

I think a lot of the rest of your last post is clarification, so, rather than reviewing all that, I’m starting fresh.

I see the link you provided, but I still don’t see how it’ll help. I do have an optical output on my HDMI switcher, but no optical outputs from either TV. (For reference, they are an Epson Home Cinema 1450, bought in 2017, the 2nd is a Sony VPL-VW295ES bought in 2019.) Neither manual mentions ARC or using an HDMI port for audio. So if I got the dongle and plugged the optical into the switcher, I’d have an HDMI signal to use for the AMP, but it’s the same as when I used a splitter to take my normal HDMI out and run one cable to the TV and one to the AMP: I’d just be sending the same signal to the AMP that I was before.

I have searched for something besides Arcana for ARC generation. If I’m missing something, let me know. (I even looked up to see if anyone is using a Raspberry Pi to generate ARC - hell, if I had the time, I’d see if I could write something to do that for an Arduino or Pi.)

I have to be honest that it seems to me that the TV is not always going to be in an actual entertainment center. For instance, at my old house, I had the entertainment center on shelves to one side of the fireplace and the TV over the mantel. Having to use two cables seems, in many ways, a waste.

I never got back to you about the Line In not working. While that may not be designed for a projector, it seems to me that if you have a projector, it’s about the only way you can use an AMP for sound. While the PlayBar uses optical and doesn’t seem to need anything like that, I’m betting the ARC does require ARC - which is really stupid, since that almost instantly puts it out of the running for projection systems. (That’s why I say they really need a way to turn that requirement on and off!) You only have to choices to get audio into an AMP: HDMI-ARC and Line In. If you don’t have ARC, then it’s Line-In. And if the AMP would just STAY on Line In without us having to reset it frequently, I wouldn’t feel like Sonos is just arrogantly and cavalierly screwing me (and others, I’m sure) over.

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

The dongle (actually an optical to HDMI-ARC converter) will, via your switch, create an HDMI-ARC signal from non-ARC sources. It is not “the same as when I used a splitter to take my normal HDMI out and run one cable to the TV and one to the AMP”. In this respect is is comparable to the Arcana: getting the sound signal from your source to the Amp using the right pins (ARC) on the HDMI connector (so at least partly not a software but a hardware solution). To me it looks like you need this.

I do still think you expect too much from Sonos. Sonos is probaly not “being exclusionary when there’s no need to be” but has made a choice. If it would be easy to cater to the projector crowd, Sonos would do this. Sonos has chosen differently, probably because it is not easy tot do and/or they see no commercial prompt to do so. If you exdpect this, Sonos is maybe not for you.

buzz

HDMI-ARC sockets on AVR’s have bi-directional audio capability. The units that I’ve worked with handle the ARC return audio similar to a Sonos Line-In.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Yes, but they have multiple HDMI sockets and are intended to be source switchers.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
T
Badge +2

Hi @TangoMe 

Once a thread has been quiet for a few days, we are required to mark Best Answer if it has not already been marked, and when we mark it, we always go by what the original question was. I’ve unmarked my response.

Thank you! I get the reason for that policy, but it can be seriously misleading. This thread is a prime example: There was no clear working answer and to mark an answer as a solution when it may not be is totally inappropriate. (But that goes with what I have said. Sonos seems to want to do things their way, whether it works for others or not.)

I did this and tested - the Amp was still on Line-In, as it was before I did this. But now, every time we watch TV, I have to switch from HDMI to Line-In. Before I only had to switch if there was a power flicker, now, EVERY TIME, I have to change it to Line-In. My wife HATES it because it makes it harder for her to watch TV by herself since she can’t just use the Harmony universal remote and turn everything on at once.

It sounds like you disabled Autoplay, not enabled it. Please turn Autoplay back on again.

 

I get that point, but if I disabled it, then it would have had to have been enabled in the first place. If it was enabled, then either it doesn’t work or I wouldn’t be having this problem. So, either way, it’s a problem.

 

Why Sonos can’t store this kind of setting in non-volatile RAM, like every other freaking device on the planet has done since somewhere around 2010 is beyond me. I spend extra for SONOS and every time the system loses power, I have to regroup everything and change settings like this. That is SO 2005!

As I mentioned earlier, it’s not a setting - it’s a state. All the settings are saved - like Autoplay, for example, or your WiFi credentials. I recommend you aim for resolving the power interruptions, but removing noise on the cable should help.

A few points:

  1. NOTHING else is having an issue. The AppleTV continues fine, the BD player, if left on, continues fine. The ethernet switch on that circuit has no issue. NOTHING else shows a power issue. We have a standby generator that provides power to two buildings and I have the same model UPS on over half a dozen computers, TVs, firewalls, and other devices. All told, there are over two dozen devices on this same model power supply. NOTHING has a problem with it other than the AMP. NOTHING ELSE.
  2. Setting or state? I’m an end user. Granted, I’m a retired programmer and do a lot of sys admin work. But for a USER, it’s hard to tell, “Is this a state or a setting?” I had to go in to the app and change this, so, for most people, it’s a setting. Arguing that it’s a state is pedantic and asking any user to know more than they should. In fact, since one goal of Sonos seems to be to imitate the Apple reputation of “It just works,” this goes against that - “Oh, you have to know what’s a state and what’s a setting. You have to learn what is stored and persistent and what isn’t.” Speaking as a retired programmer (one who did well enough with his own software to retire early - so I’m not an idjit), this is making excuses for a product not behaving in what is a predictable way to the customer.
  3. Again, most devices keep settings or states in non-volatile RAM. I had problem with a damaged iPad, got a new one, and it backed up and even my games were at the point where I had stopped playing them. Setting or state, it’s absurd that it’s not persistent over a power loss. It just means, “Hey, customer who has paid hundreds of dollars for each Sonos device, if there’s a storm, you have to go around to every device and reinstate these settings.” That’s treating the customer/end user like crap.

Corry, I do appreciate your effort and time on this, and I realize that you have to take the Sonos line, but these are a few points where Sonos is using “developer think.” And, again, I’m speaking as a former developer. This is the kind of thing that has been thought through in terms of, “How does it work for us developers?” It’s far from, “What works for the users? What will make this feature work easily and predictably for the user?”

And the whole, “Check and resolve the power supply issue” is a seriously lame argument. That’s in the, “Oh, our product is perfect, it must be someone else’s fault,” category. As I pointed out, with over two dozen devices on that model UPS and multiple other products on the same one as the AMP, it’s pretty lame that this product, costing over $500 (forgot the exact price) is so freaking sensitive when something like an Apple TV doesn’t even notice there’s been a flicker. It sounds very much like, “It’s easier to blame something else that works for everything but us than it is to say, ‘Hmmmm. Maybe we should look into this.’”

I know there’s a lawsuit with Google over the whole house audio - which is, really, kind of silly, since SlimDevices was doing that earlier, too, and that was no problem. But what that has done is alerted me that Google can do what Sonos does. I feel seriously stonewalled on this so now I’m looking into whether I should just find other options.

buzz

TangoMe,

Have you tried forcing a power interruption to the UPS that services ARC?

T
Badge +2

TangoMe,

Have you tried forcing a power interruption to the UPS that services ARC?

That’s a good idea. I’ll try that in the next day or so when I have time.

buzz

This is not much different from the source switch on a TV, but the TV’s display is larger than the AVR display and the AVR has more and better amplifiers.

If the bars wanted to, they could use the HDMI embedded audio or the HDMI-ARC audio.

Terms & ConditionsCookie settings