Dealing with HDMI ARC issues on Amp and input choices

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T
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I’ve got plans. With my available time, it’ll take a few months to get it all set up, though! I'm setting up home automation one device at a time - hard to fit it in these days. I’m using Home Assistant, which can handle multiple protocols. (Z-Wave, wifi, Zigbee, Insteon...) I’m waiting for two IR devices from China (they’ve been on the boat since 9/17). When I get those, I’ll be using HA to handle the IR signals. One issue I have is the screen in the house: I need it to stop most of the way down, but not all the way. (Plus that screen has trouble with IR signals overall.) I’m going to be hooking up a Raspberry Pi to that screen and stick a piece of conductive tape on part of it so I can have more control over it.

Raspberry Pi can easily deal with CEC. If you have an iOS device available, check out TouchControl for the user interface. Your own creativity will be the major limit. 

The Pi won’t be dealing directly with CEC. Basically, I’ll be using Home Assistant to handle the automation. I think I mentioned I have two ISY 994i hubs, but ran into issues. One was that I could not easily set things up on the Barn ISY. (Long story, but it was a combination of what was portable and what would run Java.) That was the first part of what led to me just losing interest in using the ISYs.

When I started looking into open source home automation, it looked like HA was the most active and most versatile. Right now, though, I’m having trouble adding Insteon to it and a 2nd Z-Wave stick. (Getting help from the vendor on that one at this point.) I’ve looked over Touch Control, but haven’t had time to review it in depth. Thanks for the suggestion!

At this point, I think everything I do, in the house great room (the place with the Sonos AMP), in the barn rec room (with a Sonos Playbar and 5.1 - where I’m having some sync issues), my study, and the guest bedroom in the barn, bypasses CEC. I think I’ve even deactivated it on my TVs. If I recall, when I’ve used CEC, there have always been glitches, but I don’t remember for sure. I’m pretty sure that things got turned on and off when they weren’t supposed to be.

But back to the Pis - one is running Home Assistant. The other will be set up to control the screen. At first, that’s it. HA has its own image, HAOS, and I can’t really, easily, put anything else on that Pi - at least until I know what I’m doing. (HAOS seems to be based on Linux - I know Linux, but I don’t know enough about HA.) Meanwhile, I’m waiting to see if I need a 3rd Pi in the barn, specifically for adding USB sticks for Z-Wave, Insteon, and any other protocols I might use down there.

T
Badge +2

 

As Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote (roughly) words are a sign of natural facts. That doesn’t mean they’re always the exact description, after all, a rose could go by any other name. No, I’m not hung up on the word or name for this device other than that I go for a convenient word that I can use to label a specific object. In programming, basically, I’m passing by reference. While I used to each English and could go on at length about when a word is important and when it isn’t, I could also, since I was a special ed teacher, go on at length about word finding issues and learning disabilities that create word finding issues for people. I’m one of them, so thank you very much for making me dump that out and making part of the conversation about my learning disability.

 

I  did not make you dump anything or force you to talk about learning disabilities whatsoever.

 

You’re the one who was dwelling on the terms and you made the point twice in one post - which was unnecessary. Once would have been enough, but dwelling on it, it was really rather important to say, “Look, I know you’re stuck on what word I’m using, but there’s a good reason I’m doing that, so please drop that point.” Few people I deal with get stuck on eccentricities of others in that way, so I needed something clear and declarative.

While I’m dealing with this issue, I’m dealing with a few quite stressful issues for the house and our lot. When I get stressed, I don’t sleep well and get tired. When that happens this issue comes up and gets worse. I can say, “Please have a seat in the ---- uh….” and someone will have to help me with the word “Chair.” Today I was talking to someone about replacing a leaking tub and couldn’t remember the word “Tub” until she said it.

So when I can easily and quickly “grab” a word for whatever reason, and use it as a label, and it’s not inaccurate, I use it.

Dongle.

It’s a dongle. It’s an adaptor. I don’t care what you call it, it’s still cable with a TOSLink connector at one end and an HDMI connector at the other end.

So freaking thank you for making this part of the conversation when it’s clear exactly what I’m referring to and any dwelling on that was not necessary.

 

 

Again, you’re the one opening up this topic.  My whole point was that regardless of whether you call t an adapter or dongle, it is what it is.  Whether the phrase ‘generate ARC signal’ is technically accurate...don’t know and don’t care. Using the device as described will resolve your connection issue.

Again - see, you already covered that. So you can’t just leave a point and have to dwell on it? I was using a word and not using it negatively or positively. I just picked that word as a reference. It had nothing to do with whether I thought it would work or not.

My point about ARC and if it generated it - I pointed out that when I used the Sonos app and when I tried to use the HDMI port, that it required an ARC signal to set it up. At that point, the logical conclusion was that the HDMI data coming into the AMP needed ARC. That’s what the app said it needed, so that’s why I was focusing on it.

So that was a legitimate concern - the app indicated it needed ARC, so I was trying to find out if it had ARC. You’ll also note that it came up often in this discussion and that others were saying ARC was required - that Sonos had made the choice to require HDMI-ARC instead of HDMI.

I don’t know how you missed that, since it was in multiple posts. There was no reason to believe, after multiple posts from people in the discussion, that the port would work without ARC.

So, yes, I used that phrase and had every reason to use it and be concerned about it. And, by then, neither you nor anyone else had clarified, with support, what was going on. I did see what I felt was speculation, since it was not supported, that the signal may work, but nothing clear about it.

 



Generating ARC - I’ve plugged an HDMI connector into the AMP and received an error when I tried to use it. It stated, clearly, that there was no ARC signal and that it needed configuration. Then, as I went on, it asked about the TV and the ARC signal. I don’t remember the terms, but it was quite clear, in the setup it was having me do, that I had to provide it with an ARC signal.

So MAYBE that dongle, Dongle, DONGLE works. Maybe it doesn’t. We’ll know know that when I get it.

 

 

I already know that it works.

 

And yet you never came out and said, “I know it works and this is why.” And more people were saying it didn’t work.

And, honestly, by then, since you weren’t supporting what you were saying and since you had contradicted what I had seen for 50 years of working with electronics that a port that a device uses to receive data is an INPUT and NOT an OUTPUT because the data comes OUT of the cable, I was seriously beginning to question just where you were coming from. (And, yes, I sent the link to several friends, like a physicist who works with electronics, a friend who does work with internet backbone kind of issues, and asked, “Did I miss something? The AMP is getting data from this port. Why is it an OUTPUT port?” Every one of them said, “I have no idea why he’s saying what he is. He’s way off.”) So, yes, with people backing up their reasoning, and you not, I had more reason to doubt you than to think you were on target.

So I have had serious reason to doubt. I’ve had Sonos employees say you’re wrong, but you took a long time to back up why you were sure - and, at that, it was a Sonos web page vs. what Sonos was saying in tech support.

 

Oh, by the way, did I point out that one Sonos employee here did NOT suggest it as a solution? Did I point out that one tech support guy said it was NOT the solution?

So I made the logical conclusion in the face of those points.

We’ll soon see if it’s right. But when TWO employees (granted, one is an idiot) say it’s NOT the solution, when the configuration tells me it needs ARC because I can't continue until there’s an ARC signal, and the one employee in the conversation does not even bring it up as a solution, does it make sense why it doesn’t seem like a solution?

 

I wasn’t there for your conversations on the phone with Sonos employees.  I don’t know what was said, if there were any miscommunications, or if the tech support you talked to simply didn’t know what he was talking about.  I am to surprised that Sonos hasn’t chimed in again on this thread, as they typically don’t when others have provided a solution.

 

 

You didn’t know what was said, but I relayed it and was quite clear about it. I don’t know if it’s that you didn’t read what I said or are simply implying I can’t relay a simple statement correctly. So having heard that from one idiot and one person who knew the Sonos line well, that’s reason to consider that the dongle was not a good choice for the solution.

 

 

 

 

 

Arcana takes a normal HDMI input and converts it to HDMI-eARC (or ARC apparently), while also sending video to a display, and quite a few other features that aren’t relevant for this discussion.  The dongle/adapter  allows an optical audio signal to be processed by the Amp.  Two entirely different things.  You’ve seen the product description  and features for Arcana, and even if the features don’t make sense to you, it should give you some sort of understanding why Arcana costs so much more.

 

You’re saying that when a converter takes the electrical signal and converts it into light, then, at the other end, it’s converted back to electrical, that the data on the output end is not the same as on the input end? Or that the data, when carried through an optical connector is not the same as the data in the HDMI connector?

I find that extremely hard to follow, so I’d really appreciate a breakdown on it.

 

No, I’ll pass. I’ve already spent enough of my time trying to help you out, and you honestly haven’t been very respectful of that.  You have stated that you doubt I’m telling you the truth, and accused me of causing you some sort of mental anguish.  I have no doubt that when your dongle arrives in the mail, once you set it up correctly, you’ll be all set.

Actually, thank you. Information helps, but I was really getting tired of trying to understand some of your reasoning and not giving clear backup for what you were saying.

Oddly enough, as much as you feel you were being ignored or that I didn’t appreciate help, I still checked out the dongle. I appreciate the information. It’s the late (or sometimes missing) support and the veiled attitude that showed up with the picking on my language, ignoring or dismissing what I had said, and sidestepping the speculation of several of us, that I haven’t appreciated.

I had concerns early on, but asked you for explanations so I could see where you were coming from. It’s when that attitude and the getting personal about my language started that I wasn’t appreciating what you were saying or doing.

T
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@TangoMe,

As you use iDevices, like iPad, perhaps take a look at the Soro App - I assume as a former developer you may understand the workings of iOS shortcuts. The Soro App will allow you to setup the Amp to use the line-in, to group rooms as required, set EQ and volume levels etc. See attached mock-up screenshot that I’ve just created to show you just some of the many features/settings the App can use via the Sonos API. 

…

That’s only a semi-solution, since I can do it, but it means getting my wife to do the same and convincing her to download ANY app she doesn’t need is tough. The only reason she ever eventually downloaded the Sonos app was she really wanted to watch a few episodes of Supernatural and I was going to be gone for the rest of the day and evening and it was the only way she could get the sound going.

Plus I have a friend who comes by to help with cleaning and she has an autistic person to care for. When he’s with her, he likes to just sit here and watch Emergency! on the big screen. I’m not going to be able to convince her to download the Sonos app for just my house, let alone, adding another app she’ll never use.

 

T
Badge +2

AutoPlay - IT WON’T WORK. I’m finding, now, that I have to keep going into the Sonos app and selecting Line In to get audio to work. I think it’s every time, but I may have forgotten a time or two when it worked without that, but I’m not sure. But I have it selected for the Amp and I don’t see other Autoplay options I can pick.

Here’s a series of screenshots I took trying to set AutoPlay:

I picked “System: and got this:
 

I scrolled down until I got to “House Great Room,” where the AMP is, and picked that and got to here:
 

If I pick Amp, all I can configure is wifi. I scroll down and see “Line-In” and it says it’s connected. I scroll down to Autoplay and pick it and get this:

I pick Autoplay Room and get this:

So Autopla is selected for this device

Ken_Griffiths

@TangoMe 

I’m not quite sure exactly what you’re trying to achieve, but if you are using the ‘Line-In Autoplay’ and its grouping options and want to keep that input as your Amp ‘default’, have you switched off ‘TV Autoplay’ in the Amp Home Theatre Settings too? That’s assuming you are using the HDMI-ARC Port on the Amp and don’t wish to have the different inputs conflicting? I’m just wondering if the HT Autoplay option is what’s taking away the focus, perhaps? Also if the Line-in Autoplay isn’t working for you then check the cable and perhaps also try increasing the line-in source level to a higher value. See if that ‘perhaps’ fixes things for you.

T
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@TangoMe 

I’m not quite sure exactly what you’re trying to achieve, but if you are using the ‘Line-In Autoplay’ and its grouping options and want to keep that input as your Amp ‘default’, have you switched off ‘TV Autoplay’ in the Amp Home Theatre Settings too? That’s assuming you are using the HDMI-ARC Port on the Amp and don’t wish to have the different inputs conflicting? I’m just wondering if the HT Autoplay option is what’s taking away the focus, perhaps? Also if the Line-in Autoplay isn’t working for you then check the cable and perhaps also try increasing the line-in source level to a higher value. See if that ‘perhaps’ fixes things for you.

Thank you for the input. A lot of those questions are answered upthread. I wish I could use ARC, but can’t for a few reasons. I consider it a serious design flaw that the AMP can’t accept normal HDMI input and that there isn’t even an option, somewhere in settings, to allow it to use just straight HDMI for input. (@Corry P: is that something that could be considered or added - a setting somewhere to allow normal HDMI input without ARC? I seriously doubt I’m the only person it would benefit!)

T
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I tried tagging you in the above reply with a question - apparently it didn’t work. The question is if it might be possible for Sonos to include a setting that could allow a user to allow normal HDMI without ARC on the AMP? It could even include a warning that there’s no promise it will work or there could be sync issues when using it. For many of us, running a short 2’ HDMI cable from a HDMI switcher or multiplier to the AMP would work well. With my previous setup, I had a tuner that took HDMI input for audio and it worked fine for a few years, before I changed my setup to eliminate components I stopped using.

 

Airgetlam

To tag, use an @ sign in front of the name, like this:

@Corry P 

There, tagged him for you. 
 

It’s been a request since the Beam was released, there has been no indication that Sonos is interested in adding any other option than ARC to any of the three devices that now have an HDMI port. I’m sure Corry P will pass on the request to the development team, but I’d also suggest that you don’t hold your breath. 

Bruce
T
Badge +2

To tag, use an @ sign in front of the name, like this:

@Corry P

There, tagged him for you. 
 

It’s been a request since the Beam was released, there has been no indication that Sonos is interested in adding any other option than ARC to any of the three devices that now have an HDMI port. I’m sure Corry P will pass on the request to the development team, but I’d also suggest that you don’t hold your breath. 

I did the “@” symbol then his name - what should I have done to make sure it tagged him?

This is the kind of thing that is seriously frustrating about Sonos: The systems cost a LOT of money and the company’s attitude is often, “So what? Why make things work better for customers.” Seriously, I have thought about this issue at times and this situation has me seriously thinking whether I want to use Sonos for my future plans.

Basically Sonos works with specific situations and it appears they have no interest in working with different ones. I’ve spent thousands on my home theater system in our guest house and it’s a treat to use it, but the PlayBar loses sync with the system and can’t use HDMI - only ethernet, wifi, or optical for input. Apparently I can get an ARC that will use HDMI - but this tells me it’ll require ARC and if any of my components don’t use it, I’m screwed - and Sonos doesn’t care. Their response seems to be, “DILLIGAF?” and that’s a really rude and pissant way to treat one’s customers.

That has me, already, looking into replacing that 5.1 system, even though it’s only about 18 months old, with a non-Sonos system from a company that is more about “We can do that,” Than “DILLIGAF?”

(For those who haven’t caught it yet, DILLIGAF is short for “Do I Look Like I Give A F---” and, honestly, I’ve felt that describes Sonos’ attitude for a good while now.)

melvimbe

 

The optical output from HDMI switches, when passed through the SONOS optical adaptor, will appear to be an Audio Return Channel feed to the SONOS ARC or BEAM. SONOS ARC or BEAM will not accept regular HDMI audio feeds, only HDMI-ARC or HDMI-eARC are supported.

From what I’m hearing, though, unless there is already an ARC signal in the system, the adaptor won’t generate ARC. I’m already quite frustratingly aware that the AMP won’t accept regular HDMI audio - which is the thing I’m most ticked off about. I get that, without ARC, there might be sync issues, but it seems to me the AMP should be able to pull audio out of HDMI. If Sonos is worried about sync issues, then the switch to turn non-ARC HDMI on could be put a few levels down in the menus, so it’s buried and when it’s selected, the app can give a warning that sync might be an issue. (Just like, every time the AMP resets itself to HDMI in, and I have to reset it to Line In, it gives me a warning.)

 

What buzz stated is 100% accurate.  Connect your switch to the dongle via an opitcal cable, and the dongle into the back of the Amp.  It will work.  This is not a guess, as the very same setup has been recommended to probably 100s before you.  Although I don’t need it, I’ve tested the dongle myself with a Beam.  As you’re aware, your issue is not at all unique.  Sonos created the optical adapter for this is exact scenario, no other reason for it to be even created and sold.

I think you’re over thinking ARC a bit here. I wouldn’t say the dongle ‘generates’ an ARC signal, as generate is the right word here, but the dongle takes the digital signal coming over the optical cable and sends them over the ARC audio channels on the HDMI connection so that the Amp can read that.  Whether that is technically meeting the ARC standard, don’t know, but doesn’t matter since the Amp (and other Sonos home theatre devices)  is designed to work this way. 

 

As an aside, I don’t like the idea of having an single normal HDMI input for an Amp/Arc/Beam.    In order to use that you would need to have some sort of HDMI splitter or matrix so that you can output to your TV or projector  and to the audio device.  In addition, the audio from any built in TV app has no way to make it to the audio device.  While that doesn’t matter to you or anyone with ‘dumb’ TVs or projectors, including it as an option would probably just more people than it would help.  Maybe most importantly, In the case of the Amp (and Gen 1 Beam), it doesn’t solve any problem that the optical adaptor doesn’t already fix.  A solution where a single port works like straight HDMI with one setting and ARC setting with another seems overcomplicated, when an adapter that’s physical easy to use and see how it works, while easier to support, makes a lot more sense.

 

Danny
T
Badge +2

To all:

I called Sonos and pressed the button for tech support. That was a frustrating call because the person I talked to did not get that my TV was a projector and most projectors don’t have HDMI-ARC. I had to explain that point to him multiple times. Then he said, “Try this,” and recommended the optical adaptor that we’ve discussed. I asked, “Does that generate an ARC signal?” He was not clear what I meant, so I had to explain, again, that my TV did not have ARC. He asked for diagnostic information and then said, “You don’t have HDMI connected.” So I explained it again!

I finally said, “It seems I’m having to explain a lot to you about how this all works. Can you connect me with someone who has a better technical background who knows how this works?” He said he could and, after being on hold for several minutes, I was disconnected.

I used the video call option. Sonos - that’s a good idea, but please remember not everyone has high bandwidth! I got Tita who was quite helpful and verified that the optical adaptor does NOT generate ARC. We were pretty sure, but I got clarification on that.

For other responses, since I don’t have much time, I won’t quote:

@buzz : I’ve bypassed CEC because of funky issues like you mention. We don’t have cable - can’t get it out here. (We have cellular internet - major upgrade from V̶i̶a̶s̶u̶c̶k̶, er, Viasat!) We did have satellite TV - if you have frustrations with cable, never go for satellite! I finally decided to go with a universal remote that I could program, so we hit “Watch a movie,” for DVD/BD, or “Watch TV” for Apple TV. (I use a digital antenna for local TV and can watch that through the Channels app on my Apple TV.) CEC has good ideas, but glitches still happen. Even with my universal remote, there are issues. For example, it does see that some devices stay on when I change from “Watch TV” to “Watch a movie,” but it does not let me tell it to leave my screen down, so the screen starts going up, then goes back down. I’m working on ways to deal with that.

I have had to add a device to generate EDID signals for my big projection TV.

I think one of the reasons I’m so frustrated with this issue is that Sonos does do simple “it just works” setups and, except for this, it’s always worked in every situation - then I hit this brick wall, where both possible alternatives (Line In not being reset and ARCless HDMI) don’t work. And, when hitting the wall, I’m finding it’s even worse than the similar wall in Apple. Maybe that’s why I’m just so frustrated - there’s no in-between.

@melvimbe : For what you talk about with ARC and single input - wouldn’t using two ports, HDMI and HDMI-ARC work? However I do like the idea of just plugging in an HDMI cable to everything and that takes care of it. I know that’s what ARC is trying to do, but it looks like there’s still a lot of work to deal with.

melvimbe

Wow.  I don’t know what your conversation was like with tech support, but you’ve been given the solution to your problem several times now but you seem to keep trying to convince yourself that it won’t work.

If the adapter doesn’t do what we are telling you it does, what do you think the adapter is for?  Why does the adapter come with the Beam and Arc if it can’t be used to convert optical to an HDMI-ARC signal?  Why does the FAQ for the Amp state the following?

 

Can I connect my computer to Amp through HDMI and control volume and functions through the computer?

If your computer outputs audio through an HDMI ARC connection, you can use it to control Amp. Additionally, the Sonos HDMI Adapter (sold separately) allows you to connect a computer with an optical SPDIF output to Amp.

 

Why does the support document for setting up the Amp state the following?

When using Amp as front TV speakers, check your TV’s HDMI ports to confirm that your TV supports HDMI-ARC. If your TV doesn’t have an HDMI-ARC port, you will need an optical audio adapter to complete TV Setup.

 

 

Danny
T
Badge +2

Hi @TangoMe 

This would not be practical - the Amp would have no way of forwarding the audio to the display device without another HDMI socket. Combine this with us being unable to support the use of HDMI splitters and you see the problem. If the Amp worked this way, you’d be limited in HDMI devices to the number of sockets Amp has, rather than by how many socket’s your TV has.

The audio carried by an HDMI cable destined for a TV is not on the same physical wires inside the cable as when ARC is in play, which is why the Amp is unable to play directly from an source device. When a HDMI Audio system is designed, a choice is made between having HDMI passthrough wiring (limiting the number of devices that can connect), or to utilise ARC. ARC is the more modern way of doing it, but does depend on the display device providing ARC.

I have, on one TV, a Switch (and will be adding another game device soon), an AppleTV, a BD player, and a Mac Mini. While I haven’t browsed a lot of TVs except the projection units that fit my needs, I found that it’s hard to even find a HDMI switch that handles more than this. When I add another device, I’m maxed out for the switch. As for the TV, a recent LCD one I bought for use in my study had TWO HDMI ports. And other ones I looked at were similar. I don’t remember if I found any with three or more ports, but I know three would have been the max.

I seriously doubt I’m the only one out there who wants good sound from a product like Sonos and is using more devices than there are HDMI ports on a TV.

True, you don’t have a way to forward the data to the TV, but not everyone needs that - but they do need a way to get the sound to the AMP. (And, by the way, I double checked the Autoplay setting and it’s STILL resetting to HDMI in instead of Line-In, and not always after a power flicker.) Again, this feels like Sonos is saying, “This is the only way WE use our products or want them used, so we’re not going to allow others to use it in a different way that might be useful to them. Works for us. That’s good enough.”

I’m not saying this to be insulting, but when I had an audio receiver in my entertainment center, it was much easier to deal with than the AMP. I wish I had not sold it off when I got my AMP.

Is it possible I need some troubleshooting on the AMP to find out why, even with changing the Autoplay setting, it still keeps going back to HDMI? It’s just absurd that, in this year, with technology at the level it is, and that almost any other device and restart or maintain its states and settings, that something as expensive as a Sonos AMP can’t.

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

Though most TV’s I know have four HDMI-inputs, I recognize your problem. This will get worse when only a few of them are equipped with eARC for example, that is needed for Atmos and some game consoles. Sonos made a choice, to use the TV as an HDMI hub, instead of letting the soundbar work as such as other manufacturers do. For most users, especially Sonos users this is less complex. For users with more needs this creates a problem.

When using a switch you do not have to stop using other HDMI’s though.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @TangoMe 

Thanks for your post!

It certainly sounds like you’ve got a bit of an unstable power supply. I presume you have checked the integrity of the Amp’s power cable and connection? Have you tried plugging it into a different mains outlet?

It could be that the UPS is unable to immediately supply enough current for all the devices connected to it and power dips in the first fraction of a second. You may find that a power strip with power spike filtering will help the Amp, though I cannot promise anything. I assume an upgrade of the UPS would also serve.

The input used isn’t so much a setting that gets saved, but a choice made by software - if you reboot that software, then the choice goes back to it’s default. The same can be said for grouping. The priority here, I think, is to stop the power interruptions to the Amp, and the setting not being saved will no longer be an issue.

As for HDMI, splitters and switchers are not supported for these very reasons - we simply cannot assume that any of these devices will work, as we know nothing about their build quality or mode of operation.

  1. Just hook the HDMI cable from the HDMI splitter to the Amp and not have to deal with ARC and just use the normal audio from the Apple TV or Sony BD player. Both output audio on HDMI, so sound coming back from the TV is really not a problem.

 

The audio that comes from HDMI source devices, intended for a TV, is on different wires inside the HDMI cable than the ARC audio, and this is why you cannot simply connect a HDMI source device to an HDMI audio device and get audio. Line-In is not recommended for TV audio due to the fact that it is digitised and pre-buffered prior to playback, whereas HDMI audio is played as soon as possible to reduce lip-sync issues. I recommend you use HDMI-ARC, if you can, though I appreciate that projectors don’t supply it. This is why we do not support the use of projectors - you’re often forced to use splitters which are also unsupported.

 

  1. Keep the “Line In” setting all the time, so it’s not lost every time there’s a power flicker or outage.

Do you have Line-In Autoplay activated? If not, please go to Settings » System » [Amp Room] » Autoplay (under Line-In section). This should make the Amp switch to Line-In after the reboot, assuming the source is still playing. If it doesn’t, you should be able to mute then unmute the source via the remote which will then trigger the autodetection (though I think you may need 5 or 10 seconds of silence for it to work).

Finally, if you feel that there is some kind of fault with the Amp, I recommend you get in touch with our technical support team. If you are sure that the power issues are not due to a fault in the Amp, then I can only recommend you get these fixed for best operation.

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
buzz

TangoMe,

The SONOS ARC and BEAM, TV’s, and A/V units can have only one HDMI-ARC connection.

Normally, audio and video are sent from an input device (Cable box, DVD, Blu-ray, AppleTV, etc.) to the TV. Now that modern TV’s often include “Apps”, there must be a method for sending audio from the TV to the A/V receiver, BEAM, or ARC. It would be convenient if only a single cable is needed. This is the purpose of HDMI-ARC. In most home A/V systems there is only one TV, hence there is only one HDMI-ARC. The HDMI-ARC connection on the TV is wired to the HDMI-ARC connection on the A/V system or Sonos ARC. In general, 3rd party boxes inserted between HDMI-ARC ports do not properly handle the audio and control signals.

Explore the possibility that your UPS does not start fast enough. Simply force a power outage for your barn system and observe ARC’s response. If the UPS is too slow for ARC, ARC will reboot.

T
Badge +2

What I find interesting is that I have a projection TV on a similar UPS (same model), a computer, the Amp, an Apple TV, and a BD player all on that UPS. On others that are the same model, I have the other TV, an arcade game machine, other Apple TVs, computers, and much more. We have a whole-house generator, so with these UPS’s in place for these systems, the 40-50 seconds it takes for the generator to come online is not an issue for equipment going down. This includes my media servers, home automation hubs, a firewall, a TV tuner (with ethernet output), and more. So with all this sensitive equipment on UPS devices, it seems odd to me that the Amp is the ONLY one that freaks out with a power flicker.

We have projection TVs in both locations (our house great the home theater in the barn).  I get that a lot of people use smart TVs, but there are a lot of us who have spent thousands on good projection systems. Those TVs are not running an OS and loaded with apps, but, damn, yes, they can be a big investment.

I’m not clear, but it seems like the Amp is set up for one way of doing things. I’ve spent a good chunk of change on my projection TVs, although that was a few years ago. Neither has an onboard OS or ARC. They’re not designed for that, but they work well with Apple TV or any other box like that I’d want to use.

It feels, and I’ve run into this before, which is why I almost dumped Sonos in 2019, when we renovated our barn and set up the home theater setup, of going in another direction. It just feels like Sonos decides, “This is how things will work, and if that’s not your setup, well, it should be.”

(I’m still peeved that my Playbar, which is what Sonos was selling in 2019, had to use optical connections rather than HDMI and my consultant at Crutchfield said that’s probably the reason the sound goes out of sync. I had considered updating to an Arc to replace it, since the Arc uses HDMI, but now that I’m reading this, I figure it’s pointless and I may have to redo the whole 5.1 system if I want synced audio, since, I’m sure, the Arc will require Arc as well and not work with a projection TV that doesn’t use it and for which I use a HDMI switch so I can use my game console, a computer - for more games - a BD player, and Apple TV.)

buzz

Arcana is a great problem solver. HDFURY has a bunch of other products that can work through HDMI issues.

Airgetlam

I used a PLAYBAR for the last 7 years or so, and never had a lipsync issue on either a Sony TV or a Vizio TV.

Sonos devices are, of course, limited by playing the signal as quickly as they receive it, so any lipsync delay would be due to the device providing the signal to the PLAYBAR. 

The Sonos PLAYBAR was originally released in 2013, which implies the design was created earlier than that. At that point, I don’t recall ARC being a ‘thing’ that any TVs had. Seems odd to be angry about Sonos designing and selling a device that matched the majority of TVs at the time. 

Bruce
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @TangoMe 

This would not be practical - the Amp would have no way of forwarding the audio to the display device without another HDMI socket. Combine this with us being unable to support the use of HDMI splitters and you see the problem. If the Amp worked this way, you’d be limited in HDMI devices to the number of sockets Amp has, rather than by how many socket’s your TV has.

The audio carried by an HDMI cable destined for a TV is not on the same physical wires inside the cable as when ARC is in play, which is why the Amp is unable to play directly from an source device. When a HDMI Audio system is designed, a choice is made between having HDMI passthrough wiring (limiting the number of devices that can connect), or to utilise ARC. ARC is the more modern way of doing it, but does depend on the display device providing ARC.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
T
Badge +2

I used a PLAYBAR for the last 7 years or so, and never had a lipsync issue on either a Sony TV or a Vizio TV.

Sonos devices are, of course, limited by playing the signal as quickly as they receive it, so any lipsync delay would be due to the device providing the signal to the PLAYBAR. 

The Sonos PLAYBAR was originally released in 2013, which implies the design was created earlier than that. At that point, I don’t recall ARC being a ‘thing’ that any TVs had.

Unless there are different models, one point there is that the Playbar does not have HDMI input, so ARC is a total non-issue. The only connections (other than power) are optical and ethernet. My product advisor (again at Crutchfield, a company I trust - they haven’t led me wrong yet) has said that he has had complaints from several people who were using the optical cable for sound about sync issues.

Now, if there were a way to pull the audio from the HDMI cable and send it to the Playbar by ethernet AND do that quickly enough that syncing isn’t a problem, that would be a solution. But with the Playbar, the only actual audio input is the optical connector.

Seems odd to be angry about Sonos designing and selling a device that matched the majority of TVs at the time. 

My main complaint is about the Amp, a newer product, that won’t work with HDMI input only and requires ARC. With a projection TV on the other side of the room from an entertainment center, most people are not going to have an extra HDMI cable going that far.

T
Badge +2

Arcana is a great problem solver. HDFURY has a bunch of other products that can work through HDMI issues.

Thank you! I’m looking into both. That kind of research takes me time, so it’ll be a few days before I can look over both of them.

T
Badge +2

 

 

 

 

  1. Keep the “Line In” setting all the time, so it’s not lost every time there’s a power flicker or outage.

Do you have Line-In Autoplay activated? If not, please go to Settings » System » [Amp Room] » Autoplay (under Line-In section). This should make the Amp switch to Line-In after the reboot, assuming the source is still playing. If it doesn’t, you should be able to mute then unmute the source via the remote which will then trigger the autodetection (though I think you may need 5 or 10 seconds of silence for it to work).

I did this. I can’t remember if I did it on my iPhone or through the Sonos control panel, but I did it. Then I checked to be sure the Amp was on Line-In and muted it again. (I hear background noise when the Amp is not muted and everything else is off, so I have to mute it - since I can’t turn it off.)

A day or two later, after no sign of any power flickers (maybe one happened at night), we turned on the entertainment system and there was no sound. The Amp was, again, on TV as opposed to Line-In.

I’d go with the 4K-Arcana, but that’s $200 and is a lot to spend on an issue like this. I may use that, though, in the big screen setup, if I put in an Arc, which I’m thinking of doing. (I just don’t know what to do with the Playbar - my main reason it’s a problem is that the Playbar does not always stay in sync with the image and my advisor tells me that happens with optical connections, the only thing Playbar can use other than ethernet.)

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @TangoMe 

If you hear a background noise even when nothing is playing, I recommend you get a “ground-loop isolator” to fit between the Amp and it’s Line-In source device - this will remove the noise, and the removal of the noise will allow Autoplay to function as intended. There are a few kinds, with different connections, so please make sure you get a RCA-RCA model. Thankfully, these devices are pretty cheap.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
buzz

There is nothing intrinsic to TOSLINK (optical) that will cause lip sync issues, but processing inside the TV could cause trouble. Note that there will always be a slight latency (about 35ms) between HDMI audio input to AMP and output. Latency is about 75ms for analog Line-In.

Cheap analog ground isolators are not always effective enough. If you try a few cheap, ineffective isolators, Jensen will eliminate your ground loop, but may be uncomfortably expensive.

As a quickie trial, try disconnecting the cable TV feed from your cable box. The CATV feed is a very common source of ground noise. Properly grounded CATV feeds are not usually much of an issue. There are ground isolators that can be installed in the CATV feed, but they often disrupt the signals. Again, the cheap isolators are more likely to be problematic.

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