Sonos 5 line Only ( no delay )

M
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Hello Everyone,

Below is a simple trick to use your Sonos 5 playback as a normal AMP speaker with Line-In without any delay.

1-Reset Sonos, walkthrough initial product setup using wired network connection.

2-set delay to 75-ms and disable compression

3-connect audio jack from both ends, make sure you can hear the sound of the device connected and playing ( you will notice the delay )

4-disconnect or unplug the ethernet, no more delay, and Sonos can now be used as generic speaker.

 

Tip: if you have a managed or smart network switch, you can remotely control the network interface connected to Sonos, so you can switch between Sonos mode and Speaker only mode!

 

Hope this will help someone in the feature.

 

Best

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35 replies

S
Userlevel 7
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My thoughts are also nothing has changed from Sonos side - just that nobody had tried as a standalone speaker (which seems also strange that it hadn't been suggested/tried).

For sure, it's certainly not worth buying a smart speaker to use this way - but a great way of using an existing one for non delayed PC/TV use.

K

 

So if there is now no lag when a P5 / Five is used standalone, off network and from the line-in, my best guess is that Sonos have responded to those asking for the unnecessary lag to be removed in this use case.

 

This is the only part I disagree because I see no reason for Sonos to have been shy about offering such a response.

But yes, any Sonos voice on this would be useful.

J

There is a fair bit of misguided comment on this thread. Here is what I understand the situation to be, based on long experience with the Sonos system and on the forum.

When the Sonos system is used, whether with one speaker or many, there is a lag that is essential for synching play between speakers.  One could argue that this should be unnecessary if there is only one speaker in the system, but I can see that there may be good programming reasons for not making this distinction.

It has always been the case that a known and positive feature of the Play:5 / Five is that the line-in can be used when the speaker is disconnected from a network, and hence not part of a Sonos system.  It has always been necessary to set up line-in Autoplay first, while the speaker is networked.

Now, it is clear that when the speaker is not networked and not being used as part of a Sonos system, the line-in does not need a delay.  The fact that in this situation there was a delay has been the subject of numerous complaints and feature requests down the years, from people who wanted to use the speaker standalone for things like electric pianos, karaoke, DJ-ing etc, but who could not do so because of the lag.  So I am fairly confident that it was there at one point.  It is just possible, but unlikely, that everyone was testing the line-in while still part of a networked Sonos system.

So if there is now no lag when a P5 / Five is used standalone, off network and from the line-in, my best guess is that Sonos have responded to those asking for the unnecessary lag to be removed in this use case.

I have not tested the current position myself, but if there is no lag then I am fairly confident in saying that this is nothing to do with SonosNet vs WiFi or WiFi vs Ethernet.  It would be to do with Sonos used as part of a networked Sonos system controlled by the Sonos app, where a lag to allow synching is part of the fundamental system design, and the speaker used as a dumb standalone speaker fed audio from an attached external device,

It would be good to have confirmation from someone in Sonos as to whether there is indeed no lag in this particular use case and whether this has always been the case or there has been a change.

 

 

K

reverting back and forth could be possible using some network tricks

 

my question is it worth it wasting time and experiment on this option?

I would say that depends on your expectations of worth. It may be zero in money terms.

I do not need it; my TV set ups are pretty much of the type ratty describes with no Sonos in them. Where I need the back and forth, this is done via active speakers with twin input jack pairs, both of which can wake up the speakers from standby mode, so I can also have a Echo Show play music on the same speakers that do TV duty, with no user action except a voice command to play the music I want.

But there may be others interested in future; and even without any more work at your end, this will be a useful thread for the next DJ/mixer type that comes here saying why can I not use my Sonos kit for this.

If he can find this thread.

ratty

If one doesn’t care about such matters and is obsessed with treating Sonos units as dumb reproducers then by all means go ahead. A waste of resources IMO, since a couple of regular active speakers would do the job better, cheaper, and with less energy usage. 

Agreed; this becomes interesting only if said Sonos units could revert back and forth in a quick way between being a regular Sonos pair, and such dumb units.

Such units would sound, IMO, just as good a bar solution for TV, but be much better for music. They won’t do atmos and the like, but I am dubious about how much more that adds to the movie experience in the home at this time of where that tech is.

reverting back and forth could be possible using some network tricks

 

my question is it worth it wasting time and experiment on this option?

Of course not. 

M
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If one doesn’t care about such matters and is obsessed with treating Sonos units as dumb reproducers then by all means go ahead. A waste of resources IMO, since a couple of regular active speakers would do the job better, cheaper, and with less energy usage. 

Agreed; this becomes interesting only if said Sonos units could revert back and forth in a quick way between being a regular Sonos pair, and such dumb units.

Such units would sound, IMO, just as good a bar solution for TV, but be much better for music. They won’t do atmos and the like, but I am dubious about how much more that adds to the movie experience in the home at this time of where that tech is.

reverting back and forth could be possible using some network tricks

 

my question is it worth it wasting time and experiment on this option?

M
Badge

If Sonos has played a no-network-no-buffering trick for standalone Line-In Autoplay then a stereo pair would imply that buffering would be reinstated for the network connection between the two.

Sending L and R separately to two standalone speakers could result in slight timing differences and hence skew of the soundstage. There’d be no exchange of timestamps to maintain sync between what are still digital computers that can get distracted by internal process scheduling. 

If one doesn’t care about such matters and is obsessed with treating Sonos units as dumb reproducers then by all means go ahead. A waste of resources IMO, since a couple of regular active speakers would do the job better, cheaper, and with less energy usage. 

totally true for the L and R standaone speakers, however i do think that using the same Sonos speakers in this setup will be a good option, again if they exists already

and obviously , purchasing Sonos for just that use case  is overrated.

the purpose of this thread is to have a line-in offline mode with no delay for dumb use cases, as i realy enjoy the quality of Sonos speakers compared to others.

 

 

K

If one doesn’t care about such matters and is obsessed with treating Sonos units as dumb reproducers then by all means go ahead. A waste of resources IMO, since a couple of regular active speakers would do the job better, cheaper, and with less energy usage. 

Agreed; this becomes interesting only if said Sonos units could revert back and forth in a quick way between being a regular Sonos pair, and such dumb units.

Such units would sound, IMO, just as good a bar solution for TV, but be much better for music. They won’t do atmos and the like, but I am dubious about how much more that adds to the movie experience in the home at this time of where that tech is.

ratty

the challenge is to do that but still use the app to control the Sonos devices.

An app needs a network. Once upon a time, when Androids could still connect to SonosNet, a device could attach directly to a standalone speaker, or even a whole system, using AutoIP addressing. 

ratty

If Sonos has played a no-network-no-buffering trick for standalone Line-In Autoplay then a stereo pair would imply that buffering would be reinstated for the network connection between the two.

Sending L and R separately to two standalone speakers could result in slight timing differences and hence skew of the soundstage. There’d be no exchange of timestamps to maintain sync between what are still digital computers that can get distracted by internal process scheduling. 

If one doesn’t care about such matters and is obsessed with treating Sonos units as dumb reproducers then by all means go ahead. A waste of resources IMO, since a couple of regular active speakers would do the job better, cheaper, and with less energy usage. 

K

i think if you only wish to do that and do not care about thr Sonos app, it can work easily, buy following the above steps on each P5 and using ratty`s method to split the jack.

that will work in offline mode.

the challenge is to do that but still use the app to control the Sonos devices.

 

 

As I said in my PS - there is no need to even split the jack if the TV has two. 

As to challenge, yes, but I thought you wanted the next one?!

M
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I don’t know enough of all you are saying except to say - experiment away! No harm can come of that.

But I don’t suppose this solution will work if one wants to use two 5 units as left/right channels for TV via audio out jacks on the TV?

i think if you only wish to do that and do not care about thr Sonos app, it can work easily, buy following the above steps on each P5 and using ratty`s method to split the jack.

that will work in offline mode.

the challenge is to do that but still use the app to control the Sonos devices.

 

 

K

I don’t know enough of all you are saying except to say - experiment away! No harm can come of that.

But I don’t suppose this solution will work if one wants to use two 5 units as left/right channels for TV via audio out jacks on the TV?

PS: It should work actually, if one wires the left channel from the TV to one unit, and the right to the other, with no need to set up the 5 units as a stereo pair?

And then, via some of the stuff you are referring to, also be able to stream music from the net via the two units, in stereo?

That would be neat. Too good to be true?!

M
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yep

however i do not think this is useful enough, beside using Play 5 as a generic speaker, which is everything i personly need.

but i am surprised as how much this thread is having inputs and now exited to try some more experiments

for example, playing around with network and some firewall rules to block/allow Sonosnet specific traffic

i think local vs Sonosnet traffic can be filtered, if that is true i belief we can reach a phase while we have Sonos smart features operating with zero delay while still localy reachable via the app

 

what do you think?

K

 

anyway, seems even if line in is enabled, when network is disconnected Sonos sound processing on line-in seems to be turned off or at least at minimum

From what I understand, the delay is there for all sources, not just line in, as a requirement of getting all speakers in a group to perfectly sync; with line in, it just happens to be visible to the user. 

You seem to have unearthed something new/useful!

M
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i think that could be a missing step activating line in prior to disconnecting, i do not remember for sure but i do remember i was in the line in settings and enabled auto play and set the volume level.

i will test it with and without and let you know

anyway, seems even if line in is enabled, when network is disconnected Sonos sound processing on line-in seems to be turned off or at least at minimum

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

I assume that since the WiFi credentials haven’t been input and the device isn’t on Sonosnet, the status of the unit’s WiFi is irrelevant - there’s nothing for it to ‘talk’ to?

The test with the P5 and a generic speaker connected to a piano simulator is about as good a test as I can think of.

One thing though - do you need to activate line-in mode in advance?

M
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if someone has a P 5 , please test it to confirm its not a glitch at my end.

 

thank you

K

75ms would be obvious. When adjusting TV delay I can tell if headphones and speaker are out by as little as 10ms. All things being equal the one in front sounds fractionally louder. 

I think it would take very little for the delay to be intrusive when it came to the sound from two speakers, the echo would be obvious very soon. Things may be less sensitive when just watching the TV with that delay with no other speaker in the frame; I have not found any issue with careful watching and now of course, I don't bother to do that.

M
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No i was explaining my use case

 

And it is normal that once network cable is unplugged, 5 cannot be reachable, so using this method will disable network for the Sonos ( assuming Wifi is disabled )

 

 

In my setup, i have a Sonos connected via Line-in to my mac, and ethernet to my switch ( no WIFI )

When i want Sonos mode, i access the switch and turn on the port connected to Sonos, this will make Sonos app fully operational.

When i want Speaker Only mode ( 0 delay Line-in ), i access the switch and turn off the port connected to Sonos, this will make the 5 unreachable via the app, and only usable as Line-In.

 

 

From the above it seem that you may have missed a step in your four steps - should step 4 be disable WiFI, followed by your step 4?

For someone who want to test this solution by actually running it.

not sure about  other products, but the 5 needs an additional step to setup wireless connection, and since i mentioned to reset the product in step one, the above steps should be enough. i guess

 

As per splitting the jack, i just tried it with passive splitter, first connected to Sonos the second connected to a generic speaker, 

they are totally in sync, i have used a piano simulator on a mac, and music app for the test.

ratty

It would be simple to verify. Split a 3.5mm feed from whatever source is available. Send one to the P:5, and one to a conventional speaker or headphones. See if they sound in sync.

Speech is better than music for this test; even better if you have a series of clicks/transients such as exists on some YouTube sync tests.

75ms would be obvious. When adjusting TV delay I can tell if headphones and speaker are out by as little as 10ms. All things being equal the one in front sounds fractionally louder. 

K
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

Makes sense as "offline" it doesn't have to buffer the input.

K

No i was explaining my use case

 

And it is normal that once network cable is unplugged, 5 cannot be reachable, so using this method will disable network for the Sonos ( assuming Wifi is disabled )

 

 

In my setup, i have a Sonos connected via Line-in to my mac, and ethernet to my switch ( no WIFI )

When i want Sonos mode, i access the switch and turn on the port connected to Sonos, this will make Sonos app fully operational.

When i want Speaker Only mode ( 0 delay Line-in ), i access the switch and turn off the port connected to Sonos, this will make the 5 unreachable via the app, and only usable as Line-In.

 

 

From the above it seem that you may have missed a step in your four steps - should step 4 be disable WiFI, followed by your step 4?

For someone who want to test this solution by actually running it.

M
Badge

No i was explaining my use case

 

And it is normal that once network cable is unplugged, 5 cannot be reachable, so using this method will disable network for the Sonos ( assuming Wifi is disabled )

 

 

In my setup, i have a Sonos connected via Line-in to my mac, and ethernet to my switch ( no WIFI )

When i want Sonos mode, i access the switch and turn on the port connected to Sonos, this will make Sonos app fully operational.

When i want Speaker Only mode ( 0 delay Line-in ), i access the switch and turn off the port connected to Sonos, this will make the 5 unreachable via the app, and only usable as Line-In.

 

 

K

Are you saying that now you cannot reach the 5 via the app? Again, I can’t see a reason for this - have you also disable WiFi on the unit?

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