End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Show first post

4077 replies

On my continuation of streaming services worries - from being laughed at four days ago, to this today:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2020/03/19/netflix-is-lowering-stream-quality-to-preserve-bandwidth-is-music-streaming-next/

Of course this is for just the EU, the US is exempt, no?

Hi Res, anyone?

Sonos cancels May event - any bets for which day next week?:joy:

Userlevel 6
Badge +8

On my continuation of streaming services worries - from being laughed at four days ago, to this today:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2020/03/19/netflix-is-lowering-stream-quality-to-preserve-bandwidth-is-music-streaming-next/

Of course this is for just the EU, the US is exempt, no?

Hi Res, anyone?

Sonos cancels May event - any bets for which day next week?:joy:

What I heard on CNN was that this is in fairness preventative rather than essential. They also had Verizon’s top boy on saying they had no such need at that time US wise … mind that was probably three days back. Was purely what I heard on the news. I’d say we could all do with life in SD rather than 4k UHD for a while :-)

Our VM service has stuttered a few times but could be absolutely anything and could measure as individual events not a trend.

I guess some stressing is inevitable as so many are taking to using the wires to communicate over. Today will be an interesting test of that in the UK .… Mother's day and the advise (quite reasonably) is to not visit, stay at home and find other ways to do the honorable things. 

 

For once, India is showing the way. The whole country of 1.4 billion people are on a voluntary curfew today from 7 am to 9 pm, and I am honestly in awe of how much people are cooperating - and we are a people that love breaking every civic rule unless visible force is there to implement it.

Today, all cities are still; even the stray dogs are quiet because they are completely confused, even shocked by the absence of the usual hubbub.

But when all are at home how else to communicate but over the net; and to binge watch?

Because this drill of today is merely to prepare us for a longer lockdown, and to identify for the government where enforcement needs to be present to ensure mandatory compliance in the days ahead.

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

My view is that if the NSA or China or Aliens have nothing better to do than listen to all the banal things that go on all day in billions of households such as mine, this means they are sleeping on threats to security or on opportunities to invade.  I doubt they are that stupid.

The Huawei kind of things are far too complex and layered for me to comment on in any way, and there may well be merit in those concerns. 

You got this all wrong.

No one is going to sit and listen to YOU specifically, they use software to listen to EVERYONE, and then the software will decide, based on some ruleset it is programmed to, if you are a bad person.

If there is a mistake or if you say words that are not meant in any bad way, but interpreted by the “AI” then you will be put under more surveillance.

 

Saying “I dont care about my privacy, because i have nothing to hide” is just the same as saying “I dont care about free speech, because i dont have anything to say”.

 

Usually, when someone makes something, someone else finds a way to misuse it. Maybe some hacker gets access to your microphone and listens in and finds out something about you that is not illegal, but might be embarrasing if everyone knew. Maybe you have a special sexual preference that is not illegal, but you dont want everyone to know.

Well, there is great potential for extortion then.

In my country, at some point in the past, some crooks began sending out bill’s for call’s to sex-lines.

Totally bogus, but you would be surprised to know that a lot of men paid the bill, instead of contesting it, mainly because they knew they would have a hard time convincing their spous that they did in fact not make these calls.

Maybe sometime in the future when sonos has been listening in on your conversations (Not saying they do, but who knows in the future). They know all of your preferences, so they can show you targeted advertising. Google has been accused of this quite a bit, and even i have had an example of me, talking on the phone with someone else about a product i had never heard of and never searched for online, only to find that my google adspaces were suddenly filled with adverts for this particular brand of product.

Also, if i do searches online for “sonos” i will get sonos ad’s which is how google works, but even my wife gets sonos ads on her phone when she browses the internet from the internet connection at home, because google knows we are together, as our phones always connect to the internet from the same internet connection.

So next time you search for “inflatable love sheep” remember that you might get a stern talking to, by your wife when these kind of items pops up on her google ads.

 

Also…..You are safe, as the microphone power is in parallel with the LED so if one is on, the other is as well, is not very helpful, who has their sonos speakers mounted in such a way that you can see the LED on top of the unit in everyday situations.

 

 

Also…..You are safe, as the microphone power is in parallel with the LED so if one is on, the other is as well, is not very helpful, who has their sonos speakers mounted in such a way that you can see the LED on top of the unit in everyday situations.

 

Just a clarification on this feature - If you never set up a voice control service, the microphone cannot be turned on, and the LED need not be obsessively checked.  If that is not enough to allay your fears, then I don’t know what to say.  

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

 

Just a clarification on this feature - If you never set up a voice control service, the microphone cannot be turned on, and the LED need not be obsessively checked.  If that is not enough to allay your fears, then I don’t know what to say.  

Let me put it this way.

I dont ever want to use these voice features, so the microphone is totally irrelevant to me.

Why do you think that TV manufacturer’s that just a few years back were announcing in a big way that their tv had a camera, have scrapped this feature.

Also….Cisco also said that their phones could not be listened in to when the receiver was hung up …

Their claims did not age well

 

A device with a microphone and/or a camera, that does not support a feature that i want, is just not something i would want in my house.

I tolerate my phone as it can not function without it, but my phone is always put in a special place where the microphone can not hear anything, but i can hear if it is ringing.

 

You will maybe change your mind when sonos or some similar voice assistant product is hacked and info leaked.

Been hacked before. Called Fitbit, got it back on my account.  Changed all my other passwords that were similar.  Done in about an hour.  Scary, yes.  However, I'm far more concerned about my banking and purchasing apps being hacked than Sonos or Alexa knowing my conversations, which is why I enable 2 factor authentication wherever I can.  Being behind my firewall, Sonos is last on my list to require that type of security.

Obviously, YMMV.  Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

Userlevel 6
Badge +8

For once, India is showing the way. The whole country of 1.4 billion people are on a voluntary curfew today from 7 am to 9 pm, and I am honestly in awe of how much people are cooperating - and we are a people that love breaking every civic rule unless visible force is there to implement it.

Today, all cities are still; even the stray dogs are quiet because they are completely confused, even shocked by the absence of the usual hubbub.

But when all are at home how else to communicate but over the net; and to binge watch?

Because this drill of today is merely to prepare us for a longer lockdown, and to identify for the government where enforcement needs to be present to ensure mandatory compliance in the days ahead.

We saw this on UK TV today and everyone commented how disciplined. And damn those are big cities. Impressive.

Am a fairly hefty traveller in my work sphere (80 returns a year) but never yet had the opportunity to visit India. Can you believe this year ‘was’ the year. On Ice.

 Unlike our own folks skiing down hills in Scotland and walking up mountains in Wales in droves. I’m not a panicker or over reactor indeed and can be accused of playing stuff down a tad too much maybe but the pictures on TV are nuts. Total lack of respect, discipline and consideration for the other guy and his people.

I hope this bauds well for the people there in the time to come.

 

No one is going to sit and listen to YOU specifically, they use software to listen to EVERYONE, and then the software will decide, based on some ruleset it is programmed to, if you are a bad person.

 

I did know that this isn't being done by people listening on headphones sitting in a van outside my home.

I am sure you also know that every cell phone call you make is heard in the way you describe, and I am dubious about the claim that what's app messages are safe/private, being encrypted.

I am paranoid where I need to be for banking and purchasing using 2 factor.

I also do not use a debit card because that leaves me having to argue with a bank that has the disputed amount in its pocket - I use credit cards from banks I do not bank with, so any argument can be conducted with an intact bank balance.

In my case it may help that I am over 60 and left with little energy or motivation to be naughty. It is the same circumstance that permits me to listen to music without obsessing that it is not hi res.

YMMV.

I hope this bauds well for the people there in the time to come.

So do I. We need the firebreak of two weeks of such a total lockdown - that the curfew has now morphed into - if a country of our size is to get a fighting chance of success against a menace, by breaking it down to manageable proportions.

Since 2002, when he was head of one of our states, I have detested our PM and his divisive politics - to my thinking there are frightening parallels with Adolf Hitler and Germany in 1930. But for now, I have to say that his leadership has been masterly, rising to being a statesman that is talking to all Indians effectively. Once we are out of this, I will go back to evaluating him on merits. If he is successful, he may even have a good epiphany. But that is something for a post corona world.

Digression over.

Userlevel 6
Badge +8

Just correcting course a little. I’m wandering if folks have had chance to digest, analyse and have their take on the very welcome update from Sonos on the S2 concept and scope, the impacted devices and indeed the new potentially welcome benefits.

The thread has been remarkably quiet since this news.

I’m unsure if that’s to do with the current world conditions or we are all really happy with the news. And some of you are very adept in shaking out the data from these things. More so than I.

Interested what we are thinking with this news. 

Just correcting course a little. I’m wandering if folks have had chance to digest, analyse and have their take on the very welcome update from Sonos on the S2 concept and scope, the impacted devices and indeed the new potentially welcome benefits.

The thread has been remarkably quiet since this news.

I’m unsure if that’s to do with the current world conditions or we are all really happy with the news. And some of you are very adept in shaking out the data from these things. More so than I.

Interested what we are thinking with this news. 

Personally, I don’t see that there have been any significant changes… Other than knowing a few more minor details, it’s the same info that we heard months ago.

Hearing that one of the stated reasons for downgrading old kit is so that they can offer ‘hires’, something that they’ve always claimed is pointless, does not impress….

I suspect that most people have something rather more important on their minds at the moment.

Userlevel 2
Badge +2

This is not really a contribution of any value, I admit.

I was last on this thread when the announcement was made and the fallout was still fresh in the air. It is striking now, to recall how much anger and despair there was at the fact that one might not be able to stream music across legacy and modern units at the same time.

Since then, the world has undergone some changes.

It never hurts to check one’s perspective from time to time.

I went through my anger phase, but knowing that rants are a waste of energy better used for finding solutions, I focused on that and found them in a week or so. These bypass Sonos.

I wrote to Spence the day after his Jan 23 back pedal, and copied Ryan at the latter’s request, suggesting that the way to gain some credibility for the “wanna regain your trust” thing is by cancelling the recycle nonsense right away. Whether my suggestion had any effect at all isn't the point, which is that it took Sonos weeks to do just that, losing any chance of capturing goodwill for that decision.

Three weeks ago I emailed Spence and Ryan, telling them it may be a good idea to put the May event on ice, to gain some goodwill and show some leadership before external events force their hand. Now it is too late again, and all they can do is go up and down with the virus wave.

On which point, just a day into what is looking like a calamity worse than the virus in India - the 21 day all India lockdown - I am veering around to thinking that fundamentally, Trump may have had it right all along, with some balancing and course corrections to his thinking that getting everyone to work again is the best way of dealing with this. And if so and he is proved right, I will be the first to cheer Sonos going forward with the May event for what it will mean - the world is getting back to normal. I don’t need Hi Res, and I will stay forever in legacy mode, but that is irrelevant.

Circling back to the point, I think that this thread is quiet because people have sensibly decided to worry about what they can control and what is short term. I see plenty of active threads, although because I am somewhat distracted managing things in my life just now, I haven’t the bandwidth to contribute.

 

Userlevel 2
Badge +1

While it is finally quite in here 😉 i just had to Ask 1 thing, am i the only 1 that thinks this wont happen again in many many years? Maybe the 64MB migth run into some problems in a few years but i mean 32MB for so many years gotta make the 128/256/512 pretty safe for many years to come 10-15? I Don’t expect 64mb to last another 10 years i know it dosnt work like that but the 128 and up gotta be able to last for atleast 1 decade, 

play5 gen1,32MB 11 years, i dare to say 128Mb and 256mb atleast 10+ years ;D 

i Don’t know, Maybe i just love sonos to much 

Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Technology can change so fast we all have no clue - my current Play:1s and Play:3s sit at 64mb ….. how long (I give them 3-4 years maybe).  One question is though with Play:1s especially they may be able to write the software so even then they could be used as surround rears (where they are just slave units anyhow).   So maybe possibility Play:1s with 64mb still in use 7-8 years from now.   I mean once they get to that 10yr mark there is always possibility of internals just giving out.

 

No, I don’t think you’re alone in that thought. Given how long Sonos has been able to maintain their software up in the current limited memory, I suspect they’ll be good in keeping within the expanded limit….but it all depends on how ‘large’ new features are. There’s no great way I’m aware of to predict future things like that.
 

So, I wouldn’t want to guaranty another 15 years before this needs to happen again, but I’d sure be surprised if it was substantially less, such as less than 10. But no one knows, so Sonos is doing the best prediction they can by saying 5 years from the last point the item is on sale on the Sonos website as a ‘new’ product. 

I look at it much like early computers. Who knew that a ‘386 and a Meg of memory wouldn’t run Windows 10? ;)

While it is finally quite in here 😉 i just had to Ask 1 thing, am i the only 1 that thinks this wont happen again in many many years? Maybe the 64MB migth run into some problems in a few years but i mean 32MB for so many years gotta make the 128/256/512 pretty safe for many years to come 10-15? I Don’t expect 64mb to last another 10 years i know it dosnt work like that but the 128 and up gotta be able to last for atleast 1 decade, 

play5 gen1,32MB 11 years, i dare to say 128Mb and 256mb atleast 10+ years ;D 

i Don’t know, Maybe i just love sonos to much 

Rhetorical question?  The majority of your posts have been in this thread.  I think you know that others have a similar view as you.

Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Yeah good points!

but i cant help to think that sonos dont Want to go down this road again, atleast not With the 128/256 speakers, also the amount of time it took to fill up 32mb im confident in the sub and play5 gen2 to work for 10 years, but when i got my 2 play 5 i made up my mind that i will be more than happy to use the trade up program to get 2 new play 5’s, i made peace With it but the longer they work the Better ofcourse :) 

Userlevel 2
Badge

Just thinkin’. The eventual demise of legacy speakers will most likely result from their inability to feep up with future technolgy changes of streaming sites (eg. Spotify). So, before that time comes, if a person didn’t update Spotify, but instead kept the current version, woudn’t that keep the legacy speakers compatible with Spotify?

Only if the third party, Spotify, in your example, maintains the previous stream in addition to the new version. In which case, there would be no reason for Sonos to change anyway. 

Userlevel 2
Badge +1

No, I don’t think you’re alone in that thought. Given how long Sonos has been able to maintain their software up in the current limited memory, I suspect they’ll be good in keeping within the expanded limit….but it all depends on how ‘large’ new features are. There’s no great way I’m aware of to predict future things like that.
 

So, I wouldn’t want to guaranty another 15 years before this needs to happen again, but I’d sure be surprised if it was substantially less, such as less than 10. But no one knows, so Sonos is doing the best prediction they can by saying 5 years from the last point the item is on sale on the Sonos website as a ‘new’ product. 

I look at it much like early computers. Who knew that a ‘386 and a Meg of memory wouldn’t run Windows 10? ;)

Come to think about it the playbase is exactly 3 years old, and it too ”only” have 256MB, I dont think they Need much more, Maybe its a future proof thing to use 1gb, but still they could have done that too 3 years ago with the playbase 

Only the Sonos Amp and the voice-enabled speakers (Beam, ONE, Move) do have 1 GB RAM/Storage. The ONE SL has 512 MB, IKEA Bookshelf and Lamp 256 MB.

Come to think about it the playbase is exactly 3 years old, and it too ”only” have 256MB, I dont think they Need much more, Maybe its a future proof thing to use 1gb, but still they could have done that too 3 years ago with the playbase 

 

We can make assumptions about how much is enough memory, but it’s still just an educated guess at best.  Yes, 256 is much more than 32, but the playbase also has to handle airplay functions, TV audio duties, and now hi-rez...things the 32 MB devices didn’t.  How much is left over?  Don’t know.  Sonos did believe that 256 was the right future proofing the cross then, maybe they still do.

And you also need to figure much of the 1GB memory devices use it for voice assistant functionality.

 

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +21

On memory limits, given enough memory to run a newer Linux kernel and core systemutilities Sonos has a lot of ability to tailor the optional software components to accommodate lower memory products.

Things like they have done already, like moving library indexing to more capable devices is a good example.

Reply