I'm using a Connect to switch between TV audio (line-in) and other traditional Sonos sources. I find the minimum 70ms delay on the line-in input to be maddening. While it occasionally works out that audio/video are reasonably sync'd, more times than not the Connect noticeably degrades A/V sync. Additionally, if other televisions are on in adjacent rooms (common occurrence) the delay in the Connect creates an obvious audio sync problem between devices. After having read the forums, etc. I understand some of the technical reasons for the delay; I’m not proposing we violate the laws of space/time. What I am proposing is a dual-mode line-in function. The primary mode would work exactly as it does now (ability to share Connect line-in with all Sonos components). The secondary mode would be a local only mode (no sharing) and would forgo the analog to digital conversion process and simply provide direct analog amplification for the line input. This would completely eliminate the line in delay problem! This may involve a hardware design modification in addition to a software change, but I consider it a must have. I'm fairly new to Sonos (2 months) and the system generally has exceeded my expectations. However, I consider the line-in delay issue a major shortcoming.
Page 1 / 2
John B, This thread is for wining about what Sonos easily could do (firmware update) but don't. It doesn't need a counter winer telling us it doesn't do what we want it to do.
A Connect (without the Amp) essentially converts audio to digital to send over WiFi ... and when it arrives at the remote Sonos speaker end, plays the digital WiFi signal transmitted via Connect through the Sonos speaker. While this audi/digital conversion is likely very fast, there will always be some latency as the audio is buffered/converted and sent in digital blocks via WiFi and the reassembled at the remote speaker end. And thus, the inevitable delay (75ms in the case of Sonos with compression turned-off). If want to have live sync audio (e.g., guitar, piano playing, singing), you must plug directly into an Amp without then sending off to wireless speakers (I don't care who's wireless speakers you use). If you are watching a video (TV, DVD) then the audio delay can sometimes be compensated for via settings on your AV receiver or the way your system is setup (e.g., Audio-in to Connect directly from the source (DVD, Cable Box) meanwhile have the video pass through an intermediate A/V receiver/amp on it's way to a TV and or projector wherein there is likely some modest delay. If you connect your audio source directly to line into a Connect:AMP with speakers directly connected to the AMP, then there should be no delay, otherwise, yes, I agree that Sonos should fix this. Ditto for connecting directly to a line-in on any other Sonos speaker (or PlayBar if you have an optical out from your audio source) as long as no other remote Sonos speakers are included in the mix.
It would be a really easy firmware upgrade option to add a toggle switch that said "No delay for plugging in mics, instruments, TVs, DJ mixers. Yes/No"
Then a warning that simply says "Please be aware that while in No Delay Mode you can't sync your music with your other Sonos devices".
Adding these features are free and adds something to the system, there is no negative.
Then a warning that simply says "Please be aware that while in No Delay Mode you can't sync your music with your other Sonos devices".
Adding these features are free and adds something to the system, there is no negative.
SONOS was conceived as a robust whole house stereo system and it works very well for that purpose. So well, that the SONOS company now dominates this application. That 70ms delay is one of the reasons why SONOS works so well because it allows the players some time to work through the inevitable little day to day network issues. Eliminating the delay would result in a less robust system.
If "no delay" is a requirement for your application, then SONOS is not the system for you. For example, SONOS would be a poor choice for use as a guitar amplifier or PA system. Except when used in conjunction with PLAYBAR, one should not attempt to use SONOS components in a surround sound application.
True, "anyone" can build an inexpensive Bluetooth speaker, but this is not a practical whole house approach. Bluetooth is optimal for short range, very low power communication -- perfect for handset to ear microphones and such or single room, portable wireless speakers, but not for covering a whole house.
If "no delay" is a requirement for your application, then SONOS is not the system for you. For example, SONOS would be a poor choice for use as a guitar amplifier or PA system. Except when used in conjunction with PLAYBAR, one should not attempt to use SONOS components in a surround sound application.
True, "anyone" can build an inexpensive Bluetooth speaker, but this is not a practical whole house approach. Bluetooth is optimal for short range, very low power communication -- perfect for handset to ear microphones and such or single room, portable wireless speakers, but not for covering a whole house.
So you bought a multiroom network hifi system when you wanted something completely different?
This Sonos speaker (play 5) sucks. I had a $30 speaker that performed perfectly with no delay connected to my sons drums before. It's impossible to keep the beat now that the drums are connected to the play5. Do I really need two speaker systems in his room?
I'm tossing my hat into the ring on this as well Was really hoping that the 75ms delay when using uncompressed audio would work with recording my piano with some audio software but the lag is just too much. I don't need to stream the audio to any of my other systems - I just need it for the speaker that it's plugged into. But no go. Now I'm trying to rationalize keeping it for another room or just sending it back. The simplicity of design and great sound would have made this a perfect fit for my music room, but in the end - I need as close to zero latency as possible to make it work.
I can tell you that I've tried with the compression settings on the Sonos units, and the direct vs. filtered sound on the home theater system (connected with Sonos Connect), and I can not get the Sonos components (Play 3/5) to play without an audible delay. This is really terrible. Looks like this feature has been requested for going on ten years!
I found a solution to this: simply set the Line-in to "uncompressed" in the line-in settings. It's the compression that is causing the delay.
If the cap fits wear it. If Sonos think this feature is so bad they don’t want to tell people about it, they should fix it. If they can’t be bothered they should at least make people aware.
They tell people about it all the time. It's right here on the Line-in support page:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1091
Uncompressed line-in uses the WAV format which can put a lot of strain on your network if you are in a Standard Setup and have a lot of Sonos players. A benefit of using Uncompressed is that there will be very little delay from the source and the audio. With uncompressed line-in, the delay is about 75ms.
. . .
Compressed line-in uses the SBC codec which is much less taxing on your home network at the expense of having a longer delay between the source and the audio. With compressed line-in, the delay is about 2 seconds. When using line-in for use with AirPlay, an additional delay of half a second is introduced.
So if people are "not aware", it is their own fault. Can't think of a better place to make people aware than the actual page that instructs you how to configure and use the Line-in feature.
Could you clarify what you mean by 'an alternate way to play music without the playlists'. I wasn't aware that Sonos could only play playlists so I must be misunderstanding something.
Yeah John you smart a**, we paid a crazy amount for a simple speaker with at least the hope it was more flexible. I've been whining since 2009 for an alternate way to play music without the playlists (like every other app on the planet) and haven't been grwnt d that wish either so I'm not holding my breath.
The speaker is worthless for playing guitar out from an iPad which is what I'm trying to do. I would love to have my money back to have a cheaper solution.
Exactly John B. Anyone but Sonos.
I wouldn't even have considered Sonos if it wasn't for the line in option. I'm just sad the Sonos team isn't good enough to program it so that when I'm not synching line in with other rooms, it will go straight through to the speaker without the delay.
Who doesn't want synch between the video and audio on their TV? They even have a special TV speaker so don't say line in is just incidental.
I wouldn't even have considered Sonos if it wasn't for the line in option. I'm just sad the Sonos team isn't good enough to program it so that when I'm not synching line in with other rooms, it will go straight through to the speaker without the delay.
Who doesn't want synch between the video and audio on their TV? They even have a special TV speaker so don't say line in is just incidental.
Complements HD television screens with richly textured HiFi sound.The recent speaker (play1) is a small budget speaker, that's why it doesn't have line in (just like play3).
Yes it’s at the bottom of about the third page. That’s like saying we all should read all the small print on our insurance policies. It would never have occurred to me that a line-in input in a speaker would have a delay on it, so I’m not really going to be looking for it in the small print. Perhaps if they had highlighted it in bold as you have...
As the old sage Oscar Wilde used to say - Righteous indignation is the last bastion of defense for a failure.
[quote=jgatie]Like a warning that says "Crunchy raw unboned real dead frog". Makes sense.
If the cap fits wear it. If Sonos think this feature is so bad they don’t want to tell people about it, they should fix it. If they can’t be bothered they should at least make people
So if people are "not aware", it is their own fault. Can't think of a better place to make people aware than the actual page that instructs you how to configure and use the Line-in feature.
Yes it’s at the bottom of about the third page. That’s like saying we all should read all the small print on our insurance policies. It would never have occurred to me that a line-in input in a speaker would have a delay on it, so I’m not really going to be looking for it in the small print. Perhaps if they had highlighted it in bold as you have...
If the cap fits wear it. If Sonos think this feature is so bad they don’t want to tell people about it, they should fix it. If they can’t be bothered they should at least make people
So if people are "not aware", it is their own fault. Can't think of a better place to make people aware than the actual page that instructs you how to configure and use the Line-in feature.
Yes it’s at the bottom of about the third page. That’s like saying we all should read all the small print on our insurance policies. It would never have occurred to me that a line-in input in a speaker would have a delay on it, so I’m not really going to be looking for it in the small print. Perhaps if they had highlighted it in bold as you have...
The lag is real and problematic. I use a TV with line-in connected to a Play:5 with the volume on the TV off. So only Sonos plays the sound. My wife doesn't notice the 70ms delay, but I do. People's voices are behind and it bothers me a lot.
I tried this video to test the sync delay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_PbyRpKrRk) and if I turn on the volume on the TV I hear two distinct beeps, really bad.
There is an audio delay function on my TV, but it doesn't make any difference, I can set it from 0 to -60ms.
I understand and appreciate what the speaker is doing, but for this use case, it's pretty bad. I'd like to see an official answer if this is something that just can't be turned of with a setting.
I tried this video to test the sync delay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_PbyRpKrRk) and if I turn on the volume on the TV I hear two distinct beeps, really bad.
There is an audio delay function on my TV, but it doesn't make any difference, I can set it from 0 to -60ms.
I understand and appreciate what the speaker is doing, but for this use case, it's pretty bad. I'd like to see an official answer if this is something that just can't be turned of with a setting.
If the cap fits wear it. If Sonos think this feature is so bad they don’t want to tell people about it, they should fix it. If they can’t be bothered they should at least make people aware.
I don't find it unusable for live audio. The delay to me doesn't effect lip sync - I just have to turn down TV speakers.
Or one could do research beforehand, and never have to buy the item to see the disclaimer on the back.
Like a warning that says "Crunchy raw unboned real dead frog". Makes sense.
So why not just put a note next to the line-in feature to say that there is a delay which makes it unsuitable for any live audio replay?
He posted the same thing in another thread. Borderline spamming, IMHO. And why didn't he do any research before plunking down that money?
I'm not sure this is relevant to what you are saying, but I am using a Connect:Amp and a TV with no noticeable delay. I watch TV, the TV audio goes to the Connect:Amp and out through speakers wired to the Amp. The lips seem matched pretty well. I did this by using the headphones jack on the TV to RCA cable, then plugged the RCA cables into the inputs on the Amp. Since I never use the built-in TV speakers and I always use the wired speakers for sound, this works really well for me.
There's also the added bonus that I can control the volume by using the TV volume, since it's tied to the headphone jack. I also have the Amp set the source input to the TV as soon as it detects a signal on the line-in. So I can turn on the TV and watch it, and control volume without having to touch the Sonos app.
Like I said, this may be something totally different than what you are trying to do - if it helps, then excellent.
There's also the added bonus that I can control the volume by using the TV volume, since it's tied to the headphone jack. I also have the Amp set the source input to the TV as soon as it detects a signal on the line-in. So I can turn on the TV and watch it, and control volume without having to touch the Sonos app.
Like I said, this may be something totally different than what you are trying to do - if it helps, then excellent.
It helps but there is still delay, though less than before.
Enter your E-mail address. We'll send you an e-mail with instructions to reset your password.