After years of resistance, I now have a TV in the patio dedicated to music videos, to be played there and streamed to other Sonos zones indoors. I am seeing the group break up often, even where all the concerned Sonos units have solid green signal strengths back to Boost.
Line is set to uncompressed; both compressed and the choosing the Airplay device trick does not seem to work; the latter does not fix the lip sync problem caused by the former.
The TV is connected to a Connect in the patio, which is used to initiate a group with the 2 other zones indoors, which are also closer to the Boost than the patio Connect. Often, and usually when I choose to change the video being played, these two drop while remaining as a group, leaving the patio Connect playing on its own. When I add the Connect back to these groups, play resumes on all three zones, and, I suspect, in a more stable manner.
Any ideas as to solutions? If I wanted to wire an ethernet cable from the Patio to the router what would I have to do - one end would go into the jack on the Connect, and the other back to the jack on the Boost? Would that solve the problem?
PS: The TV is connected from its audio analog line outs to the Connect Line in.
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I agree that a Boost right next to the Play:1 is a bad idea. Adjacent transceivers can give rise to a near-far issue.
Try wiring the Play:1, and set the Boost aside. If the Boost is to be used I'd suggest the Play:1 be wired with its radio disabled.
Is the patio Connect driving anything by way of an amp or active speakers, or is it simply a Line-In?
Try wiring the Play:1, and set the Boost aside. If the Boost is to be used I'd suggest the Play:1 be wired with its radio disabled.
Is the patio Connect driving anything by way of an amp or active speakers, or is it simply a Line-In?
Some strange bits from a email response from Support:
Also did you disable WiFi on one of the connects manually? It can be enabled because it will increase overall performance.
Signal from CD player is in usually compressed digital format but signal from TV is usually in uncompressed format.
Back to square one...with respect to the heaviness of the TV signal!
Also did you disable WiFi on one of the connects manually? It can be enabled because it will increase overall performance.
Signal from CD player is in usually compressed digital format but signal from TV is usually in uncompressed format.
Back to square one...with respect to the heaviness of the TV signal!
As agreed, I will revert the play 1 to root bridge role, and pull the power to the Boost and see/report.
The patio Connect is wired to amp via analog line out.
The patio Connect is wired to amp via analog line out.
Sonos Support seems determined to plumb new depths. Yesterday they wanted to see the discussions in this thread. Today, I get this email:
Sonos devices that fully supports TV audio are Beam, Playbase and Playbar. Also surround and sub with them are supported because they are connected with 5Ghz band instead of 2.4Ghz band. With other setups it is very likely that there will be audio dropouts if TV audio is used.
I have, in reply, asked the question about how TV audio is any different from turntable audio...
Sonos devices that fully supports TV audio are Beam, Playbase and Playbar. Also surround and sub with them are supported because they are connected with 5Ghz band instead of 2.4Ghz band. With other setups it is very likely that there will be audio dropouts if TV audio is used.
I have, in reply, asked the question about how TV audio is any different from turntable audio...
Oh dear.
Since except in the case of Airplay device, the uncompressed signals are all sent with a very small buffer, it begs the question whether even the latest audio products are by design able to send these signals in a stable manner to a group that is running wirelessly, be it on the regular WiFi, or on Sonos net. Never mind if the signals come from a TV or a turntable or even a CD player.
The thing to note of course is that there is the compressed option that can be a viable alternative for all sources except TV where the lip sync is destroyed in that option.
Audiophiles will disagree, but I don't think that compressed makes an audible difference for the pure audio sources like turntables, hence I say viable for the compressed option for such sources.
The thing to note of course is that there is the compressed option that can be a viable alternative for all sources except TV where the lip sync is destroyed in that option.
Audiophiles will disagree, but I don't think that compressed makes an audible difference for the pure audio sources like turntables, hence I say viable for the compressed option for such sources.
Ken, I shall link this thread to Sonos Support and draw their attention to your post, that is encouraging to me, and flies in the face of what they say about uncompressed line in.
If what you are showing works with uncompressed line in on Sonos net, there is no reason why mine should not, and not just for a limited group size like just the play 1 grouped with the Connect. Assuming that your source is a wireless streamer attached to the TV input, my set up is actually less demanding than yours; of course if your TV source isn't wireless, then that is a different matter and the fact that mine (FireStick) is, could be causing trouble to the line in wired to the TV Connect in its ability to send the uncompressed signals, because of noise levels or interference; certainly that Connect is usually in a yellow or orange box in the matrix.
And the issues I was facing was in test conditions in an empty house, with no other use being made of Sonos at the time; all the more reason it should have worked fine.
If what you are showing works with uncompressed line in on Sonos net, there is no reason why mine should not, and not just for a limited group size like just the play 1 grouped with the Connect. Assuming that your source is a wireless streamer attached to the TV input, my set up is actually less demanding than yours; of course if your TV source isn't wireless, then that is a different matter and the fact that mine (FireStick) is, could be causing trouble to the line in wired to the TV Connect in its ability to send the uncompressed signals, because of noise levels or interference; certainly that Connect is usually in a yellow or orange box in the matrix.
And the issues I was facing was in test conditions in an empty house, with no other use being made of Sonos at the time; all the more reason it should have worked fine.
I received what to me is a strange reply from Sonos Support, copy pasted below:
"The TV signal is much "heavier" then the radio, Spotify, etc. signal and since the Connect is old devices, can struggle to send the signal to other rooms on time. In general the Connect never been design to play music from the TV."
I have asked for clarification because I don't understand how the signal from the RCA audio output jack pair from the TV is any different from that of a CD player or a Turntable, in terms of "heaviness".
"The TV signal is much "heavier" then the radio, Spotify, etc. signal and since the Connect is old devices, can struggle to send the signal to other rooms on time. In general the Connect never been design to play music from the TV."
I have asked for clarification because I don't understand how the signal from the RCA audio output jack pair from the TV is any different from that of a CD player or a Turntable, in terms of "heaviness".
If you read the details of Ken's set up, it is not at all typical wireless Sonosnet; there are a lot of wired devices in it. The Connect that sends the stream is definitely wired, for instance.
The left column issue is one I am still struggling with although for Connect it will soon be moot. But the Connect has other devices close by, both of which I have moved to 5 ghz, with no significant improvement.
Both the play 1 root bridge and the bonded Sub can occasionally go to orange/red, although both are usually green in the left boxes. Another puzzle because all there is in the vicinity are the router and the NAS drive. The router is on channel 1 while Sonos net is on 11.
The left column issue is one I am still struggling with although for Connect it will soon be moot. But the Connect has other devices close by, both of which I have moved to 5 ghz, with no significant improvement.
Both the play 1 root bridge and the bonded Sub can occasionally go to orange/red, although both are usually green in the left boxes. Another puzzle because all there is in the vicinity are the router and the NAS drive. The router is on channel 1 while Sonos net is on 11.
Quote from Ken:
my Connect is wired and the only other two Sonos devices wired is the Boost (Direct to the main Router) and my Sonos Beam (not its surrounds) which is linked into another (different) 8 port switch in another room.
Unquote
So he has three wired to core network Sonos units and if this is done strategically as I suspect he has, he must be able to leverage this for stable Sonos net wireless service to his total of 13 other Sonos units.
my Connect is wired and the only other two Sonos devices wired is the Boost (Direct to the main Router) and my Sonos Beam (not its surrounds) which is linked into another (different) 8 port switch in another room.
Unquote
So he has three wired to core network Sonos units and if this is done strategically as I suspect he has, he must be able to leverage this for stable Sonos net wireless service to his total of 13 other Sonos units.
No joy in WiFi mode; music started stuttering right away though the router utility showed excellent connections to both Sonos units involved.
And reverting to Sonos net is as bad as before even with just the root bridge play 1 + bonded Sub in the group, that is line of sight to the transmitting Connect, about 15 feet away, with green signal strength the matrix.
And reverting to Sonos net is as bad as before even with just the root bridge play 1 + bonded Sub in the group, that is line of sight to the transmitting Connect, about 15 feet away, with green signal strength the matrix.
The latest Sonos Support response:
TV audio signal is uncompressed and CD signal is compressed. Compressed signal doesn't require so fast WiFi connection.
Uncompressed signal requires much faster connection and cannot always be used with 2.4Ghz WiFi band but works good with 5Ghz WiFi band.
Connect isn't designed to be used with TV.
There doesn't seem to me much point in going on in this manner with this set.
TV audio signal is uncompressed and CD signal is compressed. Compressed signal doesn't require so fast WiFi connection.
Uncompressed signal requires much faster connection and cannot always be used with 2.4Ghz WiFi band but works good with 5Ghz WiFi band.
Connect isn't designed to be used with TV.
There doesn't seem to me much point in going on in this manner with this set.
Uncompressed PCM (TV audio) has a transfer rate/speed of 1.411,2 kbps, Spotify of 320 kbps. You would need to wire every unit involved to the router or an ethernet switch to avoid the TV audio being cutting out.
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I have no trouble sending Uncompressed audio across my Sonos systems. Some of the players are wired, some are not, but they are arranged carefully to provide universally good signal paths.
I didn't say otherwise. However, uncompressed audio is .wav, and .wav is demanding bandwidth.
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Respectfully, I didn't say you did.
I'm well aware of the nature of the 'Uncompressed' stream. Note that dropout problems are normally not due to the bandwidth required, but are due to the very shallow 75ms buffer that is used for 'Uncompressed'.
I’m surprised it doesn’t work for you with so few Sonos Rooms, Kumar. I accept I’m pushing the line-in to its limits in my scenario and someone walking about the place can cause a few issues with the signal... but I would have thought you would have been fine with the devices and the 'few' Sonos rooms, as shown in your diagram.
I would maybe consider trying a different router to see if that might improve your situation, or you may simply have to live with the line-in audio being compressed instead.
TV lip-sync issues are best solved in any event with a purpose-made HT device, like the Sonos Beam, for example, which is still excellent value for money in my opinion, or maybe try the new Sonos Amp instead. There is a returns policy if purchased direct from Sonos, so nothing ventured is nothing gained in that area and there is little to lose, assuming the offer applies to where you live.
Anyhow I sincerely hope you get your issues resolved soon.
I would maybe consider trying a different router to see if that might improve your situation, or you may simply have to live with the line-in audio being compressed instead.
TV lip-sync issues are best solved in any event with a purpose-made HT device, like the Sonos Beam, for example, which is still excellent value for money in my opinion, or maybe try the new Sonos Amp instead. There is a returns policy if purchased direct from Sonos, so nothing ventured is nothing gained in that area and there is little to lose, assuming the offer applies to where you live.
Anyhow I sincerely hope you get your issues resolved soon.
My experience on the German board told me that TV audio is indeed "heavier" than other Line-In sources, it tends to cut out quickly and more frequently. Neither the Connect nor the Play:5 is designed to meet this challenge.
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They're probably just (clumsily) alluding to the fact that one needs to use Sonos Uncompressed mode for TV audio to maintain audio/video sync, whereas this is not a factor for audio-only sources so Compressed can be used.
Back to square one...with respect to the heaviness of the TV signal!
There is categorically no such effect.
I would maybe consider trying a different router to see if that might improve your situation
How would a router change help if Sonosnet is in use?
And in your case, what is the source for the TV that you are able to stream uncompressed via Line In?
And another question I am placing out here for anyone that may pick it up to answer: I can run an ethernet cable from the Connect to the router if that will help but I am not sure if that will help or hinder group operations in this case, and in general.
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How, though? TV audio is 100% identical in nature to any other analog line level audio source presented at a Sonos Line-In input. The bandwidth requirements for Uncompressed audio distribution are identical, and the buffering is identical.
If you think otherwise, I'd like to understand your argument.
As far as I understand this, the input at the line in is nothing more than a signal voltage. And in this case, the TV manual specifies this to be 0.5 volts rms. Which is on the low side compared to that from CD players or DACs that have more than a volt rms.
So if at all, the TV output is "lighter", but I am sure that this attribute isn't what the Support chap meant. So, what DID he mean?
How does the Connect even know that this is from a TV??
So if at all, the TV output is "lighter", but I am sure that this attribute isn't what the Support chap meant. So, what DID he mean?
How does the Connect even know that this is from a TV??
TV audio is indeed no different from any other audio as far as Line-In is concerned. Analog signals arrive. They're digitised as PCM (if Uncompressed) and packetised for transmission. No increased "heaviness" at all.
@Kumar's response from front line support was surely the standard "you should be using a Beam, Playbar, etc." for TV.
@Kumar's response from front line support was surely the standard "you should be using a Beam, Playbar, etc." for TV.
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