HI nchaurdia
Nice patio(s) design
You can wire as many as 4 speakers to a Connect: AMP as long as the impedance is no more than 8 Ohms. Here's a link:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/269/kw/connect%20amp/session/L3RpbWUvMTUyMTEyMzU2Mi9zaWQvZlV1ME9GSVVJQ1RzRFdaczlvbE5DZ3duZFA5YmIzblVaOEZ6eldIa1hKNWclN0VUUUFkWk5uYURsb1BMcCU3RXh3eWFjaktiM3gyRHZod0t3b0lUREN4NE9fdG4yVDg5Q2VCTzElN0VBeXJYcTFJJTdFNk9aM2ZZNnZ1MDNvMlElMjElMjE=#4_speakers
Your biggest challenge is going to be running the wire to the furthest point of your patio(s). You'll also want to be able to control the volume of each speaker (or pair) with an attenuator. There are wall mount and poll mount varieties. My suggested placement is shown in the diagram with the arrow indicating the speaker firing direction. Others may have a different perspective. You'll have to play around with positioning before making a final decision. Can't offer any advice pro or con about the speaker selection. Use a good grade of outdoor speaker wire. You might consider running the wire through buried PVC pipe.:? Good luck.
Cheers!
PS
If the speakers are Omni directional you might consider the placement as shown in GREEN.
Thank you AjTrek1. That does make sense. I did not think of doing any volume control because I thought that can be handled via the Sonos app. Why would I need an attenuator? Will this allow me to turn off the music on the patios and only listen on the deck or vice versa?
Thank you AjTrek1. That does make sense. I did not think of doing any volume control because I thought that can be handled via the Sonos app. Why would I need an attenuator? Will this allow me to turn off the music on the patios and only listen on the deck or vice versa?
When using the Connect: Amp the Sonos App with show it with a single volume control for all speakers. The attenuator will allow you to be selective an adjust volume for each speaker depending upon where it needs to heard or not. Also, if you didn't notice... I've updated my diagram to show another speaker option/placement.
Cheers!
What is the square footage of your patio area? That's going to be a factor in how many speakers you need. Also, do you have nearby neighbors? You'll want to make sure that sound doesn't travel and bother neighbors.
Typically, it's wise to mount speakers under the eaves of your house. This cuts down on the wiring you need and is typically a good location for sound. However, since you have a 2 stories, you don't want the speakers that far away from the listening areas, so they would need to be lower. That means the eaves provide very little protection. As well, the sound is directed out away from your house, directed at the neighbors yard.
My yard is very wide, and not very deep, so it made a lot of sense for me to have the speakers along the fence line pointing in. I got 4 speakers (2 pairs) altogether the area, evenly spaced out. I don't think I have an natural sitting areas like you do, so that worked best for me. I had long runs of wire, so got 12 gauge. I did use conduit and that was a smart decision. It's cheap and easy to use, and I'm not worried about cutting the line if I'm doing some gardening. Instead of using speakers that sit on the ground, I mounted speakers on fence posts. Not on the fence itself, but posts I bought separately, the kind that can be directly buried without concrete. I already had a speaker selector without volume controls, so I used that. Again, my yard is pretty even, so I didn't need to any actuators and Ajtek suggests.
For you, again, it's hard to say without square footage, but I would guess 4 speakers would do it. Assuming you are going to use your wood deck, I would not want speakers on the house, blasting to the other sitting areas. I probably would put a pair on the left and right side of the yard then (as opposed to front and back). You may want an actuator so that you naturally have lower volume at the fire pit area. It might be best to get a speaker selector with volume control. The other speakers would cover the bigger part of patio plus the wood deck. I wouldn't get speakers in ground though, but that's personal preference.
I did notice. However, that part of the landscaping is going to go away. We might do it in the future, but not now. I'm going to have to run these wires myself so that will be fun. I still can't decide if I want the omni directional speakers or just regular rock speakers for the patio.
That's a good point for the attenuator. Hmm. Now I have to find one that is reasonable and where I would put it. lol
melvimbe, sq footage will be around 300 + 150 sq feet. The deck is around 250 sq ft. Also, we do have neighbors close to us on both sides (hence that design with the three small trees).
...I still can't decide if I want the omni directional speakers...
The Omni directional speakers allow for a simpler placement that is listener focused without having to worry about speaker placement angles. In my diagram you could place a wood baffle behind each speaker (left/right) in the direction of your neighbors; if that is a concern. You would not want to use metal because the idea is to absorb the sound but still project to the listening area. Hope this helps :8
Cheers!
If you're speakers that sit on the ground, then you have the opportunity to experiment a bit and see what you feel works best. If you get a speaker selector with volume control, or even a actuator(s) for individual speakers, then they can sit inside near your connect:amp. The idea is to find the right balance and then leave it alone.
I do kinda like ajtreck's speaker placement, particularly with Omni directional speakers. But you can do this lots of ways. It'll turn out fine.
And don't worry about running the wires. I was concerned about using conduit too, but it was much easier then a thought. As well, it doesn't need to be perfect, as you certainly can expose the wire to the ground directly. I skipped a couple turns and such myself just to make the job a little easier. The conduit is mostly to protect from damage caused by you, not by the elements.
How would I end up managing the left and rights? Is it better to get another connect amp for the deck itself or just a speaker selector?
From what I read, it's best to either go mono (not an option for the Connect:amp as I understand it) or to alternate left and rights. Since all 4 of mine were essentially along the fence line, alternating made sense for me. I don't really know for if you follow Ajtrek layout. Perhaps he has a good answer.
As far as your next question, and speaker selector should have impedence matching, My selector has 4 pair of speakers for it, so that is possible. Obviously, the more speakers you have, the less power available. I said before I had 2 pair connected to mine. I actually have a 3rd pair for speakers in the garage that I use from time to time. I haven't noticed a lack of power. But I'm not pushing it too hard. Sonos would recommend not to do this.
I would say try out with one amp and 4 pair speaker selector. Try 4 speakers at first. If that works, then leave it alone. If not add two more. if that works leave it alone. If it's not enough power, then maybe get a second amp. You don't have to do this all in one shot.
I feel like I'm not giving you definitive answers, but the reality is there's lot of options available.
Hi nchaurdia
@melvimbe thanks for your helphul input...really appreciated ;)
Nchaurdia...as they say..."everything changes" whoever "They" are:? But seriously, the graphic below shows what I think is the best option now that I've had time to re-think things.
Using front firing speakers...You would create two zones using the Connect:AMP and place an attenuator in between each to control volume. That would maintain a stereo effect and still allow you to be able to distinhuish left/right. In my previous suggestion the deck speaker would have been out of the "sweet" spot to create stereo. Duh! :P
To have music on the deck I suggest a Play 1 or Sonos One w/Alexa placed on a table. Both are moisture resistant which means they a can handle humidity. They are not weather proof (i.e. full blown outdoor speakers). However, as you know their size makes them easily transported and only used when needed. As a standalone you would also get full dynamic range. :)
I really believe this new suggestion to be best. My apologies for not getting to this point sooner.
Cheers!
Hi nchaurdia
@melvimbe thanks for your helphul input...really appreciated ;)
Nchaurdia...as they say..."everything changes" whoever "They" are:? But seriously, the graphic below shows what I think is the best option now that I've had time to re-think things.
Using front firing speakers...You would create two zones using the Connect:AMP and place an attenuator in between each to control volume. That would maintain a stereo effect and still allow you to be able to distinhuish left/right. In my previous suggestion the deck speaker would have been out of the "sweet" spot to create stereo. Duh! :P
To have music on the deck I suggest a Play 1 or Sonos One w/Alexa placed on a table. Both are moisture resistant which means they a can handle humidity. They are not weather proof (i.e. full blown outdoor speakers). However, as you know their size makes them easily transported and only used when needed. As a standalone you would also get full dynamic range. :)
I really believe this new suggestion to be best. My apologies for not getting to this point sooner.
Cheers!
I actually had that exact same thing in mind about the Sonos Play 1 for the deck. I have a small eave I am thinking I could hang it off of that would cover it (I have to test it). Bring it in the winter but leave it out the rest of the time.
This sounds crazy, but what about a omni one like a GS3 in the middle of the patio where the rocks are, and then a left and right on both ends..would that work?
Is there any speaker selector that I can control from my phone? That would be awesome if I could because I wanted to just run all the wires down to my basement where all the electronics are, and I wouldn't have to have an ugly speaker selector in the kitchen or something like that.
This sounds crazy, but what about a omni one like a GS3 in the middle of the patio where the rocks are, and then a left and right on both ends..would that work?
I don't think that would work as the Connect: Amp must be wired 2 or 4 speakers not 3. I could be mistaken. Best bet to be sure is to send a private email to a Sonos staffer...like Keith N or Ryan S. Then again melvimbe may know as he has a wired Connect:Amp.
A far as an app controlled Zone Selector visit this site: https://www.russound.com/news/2-russound-delivers-xzone4-four-stream-four-zone-audio-system
Cheers!
I will remind you of a general principle that music sound levels dissipate rapidly with distance, even more so out of doors where room reinforcement is missing. Therefore be sure to place speakers as close to listening areas as possible; running speaker wires of adequate thickness at this stage is a lot easier than fixing inadequate sound levels from distant speakers later.
Also, consider using streaming services and bluetooth speakers in places to where you don't want to run speaker wires. Many of these speakers are quite good now, can be paired as a stereo pair when desired, and offer a charge life of over 10 hours on their batteries. Smartphones can save playlists from streaming services for offline listening and be used as a source, so WiFi reach too is not essential; indeed the same set can used interchangeably in the car, or on the road/in the hills/by the seaside. If this route appeals, consider investing in a cheap Android device, dedicate to serve as the music source.
On the question of using an Omni-directional speaker. I agree that it isn't really a good idea, for a couple reasons. First, you would want that center speaker to be essentially play the part of the left or right channel of a pair for both sides of the patio. Say it represented the right. You would then be going left-right/right-left across your yard. Ideally, you want to go left-right/left-right for better sound distribution. Not the end of the world, but it matters. You could resolve that by using a stereo speaker (a single speaker that has both left and right channels), but I don't know if they make those for outdoor. I used to have an in-ceiling speaker like that.
Another, more important factor is that you really want your left and right speakers to be identical make and model. They are all going to sound a little different. You wouldn't be able to do that with the Omni in the middle (FYI, I am also not crazy about the Sonos One in your setup for similar reason)
And of course, there is the wiring concern AJTrek mentions. You would have to use a speaker selector for this.
Over all, I don't think it really gets you much of anything. You might save a little money on one less speaker and a little less wire, but I don't think it saves you any labor and gives you less flexibility to move speakers around in the future.
On the speaker switch being wirelessly controlled, I doubt you'll want to make changes very frequently. For the 2 pairs I have in my yard, they always are on. I might use it to turn on/off the garage more frequently because it truly is a completely different zone, but that is not your situation.
On using a Sonos One or Play:1, you can't safely leave it outside all summer long. It is moisture resistant, not waterproof, so you don't want to leave it in the rain.. I imagine the sun is going to discolor the paintjob at the very least, if not cause it to overheat (depending on where you live). Think of it kind of like a computer, a laptop. You can bring it outside, but it can't live out there.
You could resolve that by using a stereo speaker (a single speaker that has both left and right channels), but I don't know if they make those for outdoor. I used to have an in-ceiling speaker like that.
So TIC does make one, TIC GS4 8" Outdoor Weather-Resistant Omnidirectional Dual Voice Coil (DVC) In-Ground Speaker.
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Also, consider using streaming services and bluetooth speakers in places to where you don't want to run speaker wires.
I did think about that, but I don't want to carry in and out speakers. My wife would be annoyed now she has to use multiple apps, blah blah blah. So I would rather just stick with Sonos and control it all from one app.
How would this work with L R speakers with the TIC GS5 and two other wall mounted speakers (yet to determine which ones)?
Speaking personally, I’m not a fan of stereo speakers in a back yard / garden. When in use, there’s always too much Brownian motion and never anyone in “the sweet spot”. I wouldn’t set up stereo, but just stick with a mono signal, so any guest would be getting the full music experience, rather than the potential mostly left or mostly right signal.
But that’s just my take.
Speaking personally, I’m not a fan of stereo speakers in a back yard / garden. When in use, there’s always too much Brownian motion and never anyone in “the sweet spot”. I wouldn’t set up stereo, but just stick with a mono signal, so any guest would be getting the full music experience, rather than the potential mostly left or mostly right signal.
But that’s just my take.
But how do you setup Mono with a Connect Amp? I agree, but I don't know how to do that.
I don’t have a CONNECT:AMP, nor outdoor speakers, so it would be pure conjecture on my part. Aren’t many outdoor speakers ‘dual wired’ so you connect both left and right speaker wires to them?
Yes, I’d agree that there is no ‘mono’ mode on the CONNECT:AMP.
But my statement was more a generalization in response to the last image, rather than a specific recommendation.
Airgetlam - Unfortunately only a few of the outdoor speakers have both L+R.
I would go with the 2 mounted up high on the house then the two TIGs down in the garden at the bottom. One connect:Amp can run all 4 (assuming the other set on wall is also 8ohms.).
I currently run two TIGs outside. They are ok for background sound but if I have a lot of people that are going to be outside I take a few Play:1s or my Play:5 and plug in outside as well. So the 4 speakers are probably about right. And I have no problem with the left/right configuration.
