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Need some help with designing my setup (connect amp's)

  • December 10, 2017
  • 11 replies
  • 656 views
L
Hi All,

New to the forum, so nice to meet you all!
We just finished some construction works to our house and I would like to get some Sonos stuff in the new kitchen, living area and outdoors.

I asked my electrician to foresee audio cable in all zones as we were going to use in-ceiling speakers.

He did this, but now that all works are finished, I noticed, he only gave me 1 'end point' per zone, meaning he has foreseen wires from speaker 1 to speaker 2 to speaker 3 to speaker 4 in zone 1. Did the same in zone 2 for the 2 speakers over there and did the same in zone 3 for the 2 outdoor speakers.

This makes think a bit on how my ideal setup could work. Initially I was thinking to buy 3 connect amp devices to create the 3 zones, but it appears I don't have a 'left' and 'right' per zone as foreseen on the connect amp, so am I wondering if I would really need 3 connect amp's or if that setup even won't work at all?

Here is a picture showing how the setup is currently:



Zone 1 and 2 are optional and could be 1 big zone to save costs or if this is needed for my setup. As zone 3 is outdoors I would like to make sure that one is dedicated.

I'm also open to buy an additional device to switch off zones (not sure what the name is in English)

Looking forward to hear your ideas!

Best answer by Lucid AV

Yes. Apologies mixing up Zone 1 and Zone 2. Small phone display. Ha ha.

The Connect Amp will run okay at 4 Ohm per channel ( see my first reply to you), so wiring two 8 Ohm speakers in parallel per channel is fine.

Think now about the way stereo sound will be spread over the area of Zone 1. In such a large room if you wire right channel to the two right hand speakers and left to the two left hand speakers (near window?) then someone sitting at the window end of the dining table hears only left sound.

Better plan is to mix sound Left and Right at each end of room. So, clockwise starting top right Left, then Rght, then Left, then Right.

It doesn't matter where a person sits, they always hear some left and some right sound.
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11 replies

Chris
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  • Chris
  • Lead Maestro
  • December 10, 2017
What speakers are you using. Appears definitely can't use stereo speakers.

Do you know how he actually wired parallel or in series - so know ohm load to amplifier. ie https://www.hometoys.com/content.php?post_type=1874

I'm thinking you would be best off with Connects for each room running to a Mono Amplifier.
Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
Hi Chris,

These will be the speakers: http://www.artsound.be/en/speakers/inwall-loudspeakers-2/happi (the HPRO650)

They are not wired yet, from what I looked up on the internet, it seems I will be able to wire them parallel as I have 2 cables (+ and -) running to every hole that is drilled. Am I right? Would this change anything?

Thanks!
Chris
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  • Chris
  • Lead Maestro
  • December 11, 2017
So you are running a stereo pair to each speaker. Now would be good to find out exactly how he has them wired to pull pack to single stereo. You need to know ohm load. You should be able to use a Connect:amp for each zone but we need to see if we need to do something with the impedance pulling on it.
Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
Hi Chris,

Thanks again for your reply!

I gave the guy a call and here is an updated diagram of how the cables run:



I gave the zone-cables some coloring to make it a bit more clear.
The numbers I have put in each speaker means the cable first arrives there. e.g.: in zone 1, speaker with number 1.1 receives the cable from the green zone where all cables start. Then it goes to speaker 1.2 etc.

Hope this makes sense?

Regards,
Bjorn
Lucid AV
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  • Lucid AV
  • Prodigy I
  • December 11, 2017
This is why no electrician should be left to work with speakers or audio visual gear without supervision. Your electrician left you with a big problem.

1) Corners of the room are bad places for speakers. Too many reflections from the side walls. It makes the sound bad

2) Speakers wired in parallel the same way they wire for lights. That is wrong for speakers

3) No thought given to wiring speakers for stereo (left & right) channels. This is wrong too


The HPro650 are 8 Ohm speakers. Two speakers wired in parallel for Zone 2 and Zone 3 give 4 Ohm on each of the two wires. Zone 1 is only 2 Ohms. A Connect Amp can work with 4 Ohm but not 2 Ohm. That is too low.

The other problem is the sound is mono. One Sonos Connect Amp per zone cannot do mono for streamed- and network music. This is why Chris has suggested a Connect and then a separate mono amp per zone. This will not be cheap and won't look neat like two or three Connect Amps and a speaker switch.

This is not what you want to hear, but these speakers should be wired properly for stereo. That means getting the electrician backand giving him a wiring plan. You will also need the builders back to replaster the ceilings.
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L
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
Hi,

Thanks for the feedback.
I indeed didn't give him a wiring plan... I just asked for speaker cable :-)

So, I'm lucky the ceiling is not painted yet and the wholes are really big, so I still might be able to do some stuff without too much hassle.

If I correctly understand it, zone 2 and 3 are OK?

How would the ideal wiring diagram look like for zone 1?

Thanks!
Bjorn
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
OK,
I just checked the wiring myself as he wasn't too sure on the phone.

Here is the update scheme, 1.3 and 1.4 are swapped. Not sure if this makes any difference...



Regards,
Bjorn
Lucid AV
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  • Lucid AV
  • Prodigy I
  • December 11, 2017
Hi Bjorn,
Sorry, but all zones are mono so all zones are wrong for Sonos. If you want to run the system with Connect Amp then all zones need to be wired in stereo.

For Zone 1: One speaker wire to left speaker. One speaker wire to right speaker.

A speaker wire has two conductors. Each speaker has two connectors (like battery); one for positive (red), one for negative (black).

Back of Connect Amp has 4x connectors. Two for left speaker (black, red), two for right speaker (black, red). This is stereo.

Make connection from left speaker (red, black) to Connect Amp left speaker terminal (black, red). Then make connection from right speaker to Connect Amp in the same way.

---- Zone 1 complete. ----


Repeat this for Zone 3 to another Connect Amp.

---- Zone 3 complete. ----


Wiring for Zone 2 is more complex, but you still need to sets of speaker wires for Z2 to be in stereo.


Total number of wires for all three zones = 6

Z1 = 2
Z2 = 2
Z3 = 2
If this or any other posts have been helpful then show your appreciation by clicking on the thanks button. Its a great way to say Thank You. :)
L
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
Hi Lucid,

Thanks again for your reply.

In zone 1 I have 4 speakers. Sonos confirmed this would work with the connect amp (https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/269/~/connecting-speakers-to-a-connect%3Aamp)
They also confirmed this through e-mail.

Would I then be able to do the following if I do some re-wiring:

attach + and - to connect amp left channel, then wire to + and - from speaker 1 (left), from there attach another cable to these connectors and go to second left speaker (2) and attach to + and -

attached + and - to connect amp right channel, then wire to + and - from speaker 3 (right), from there attach another cable to these connectors and go to second right speaker (4) and attach to + and -

Looking at another thread on this forum, this should work?
https://en.community.sonos.com/setting-up-sonos-228990/adding-4-speakers-to-a-connect-amp-is-this-series-or-parallel-6737395

Thanks!
Lucid AV
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  • Lucid AV
  • Prodigy I
  • Answer
  • December 11, 2017
Yes. Apologies mixing up Zone 1 and Zone 2. Small phone display. Ha ha.

The Connect Amp will run okay at 4 Ohm per channel ( see my first reply to you), so wiring two 8 Ohm speakers in parallel per channel is fine.

Think now about the way stereo sound will be spread over the area of Zone 1. In such a large room if you wire right channel to the two right hand speakers and left to the two left hand speakers (near window?) then someone sitting at the window end of the dining table hears only left sound.

Better plan is to mix sound Left and Right at each end of room. So, clockwise starting top right Left, then Rght, then Left, then Right.

It doesn't matter where a person sits, they always hear some left and some right sound.
If this or any other posts have been helpful then show your appreciation by clicking on the thanks button. Its a great way to say Thank You. :)
L
L
  • Laaifje
  • Author
  • Contributor I
  • December 11, 2017
Great, I now know what to do now!
Hopefully I can get some additional speaker cable wired through the existing 'preflex' cables where these are in...

Thanks a lot!
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