Question

Using Move with WiFi extender


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I have recently upgraded my Play 5 to a Move. The Move is situated in the same position as the Play 5 was, in the conservatory. I also have a Playbar and a Play 3. Due to network issues there is a WiFi extender in the conservatory. The extender provides exactly the same network and log in details as the main router. The Play 5 worked perfectly well in this location.

My issue is that if the Move speaker connects to the extender then it disappears from the App. Do I need to alter a setting to overcome this problem? If I cannot connect via the extender then the Move will not work as intended.


22 replies

Userlevel 3
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Hi @Sonosmark, thank you for reaching us out and welcome to the Sonos Community. I appreciate your detailed post describing the issue and all your effort in checking for the resolution. Let me help you with this.

I'd like to suggest the following steps to see if this would work for you.

1. Disconnect WiFi extenders from the power to ensure that your Sonos will connect to your main router.
2. Change the SSID or WiFi name of the extender. Sonos will only connect to the recognized network. If your main router and WiFi extenders have the same SSID, Sonos will connect to it.
3. SonosNet is recommended to broadcast the same wireless signal to your other speakers. You can wire one of your speakers to your router via ethernet cable.

Let us know how you get on with the advice above and submit a diagnostic report for us to check. Just include the confirmation number in your response so that we can look up the information.

If you have any questions about this. We and the community are always here to help.

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Diagnostic report: 629085830

Thanks for the response, I have followed your advice as follows

  1. WiFi extender removed, system appears to work, all speakers recognised
  2. Wifi details are cloned from the router and are identical, Move speaker gets “lost”
  3. SonosNet does not connect to Move?

Also, when moving the Move speaker outdoors and then back in Alexa disappears? The app indicates it is still there but it does not work. The smart voice has to be uninstalled and reinstalled to work again.

The extender was removed (unplugged), Playbar which was hard wired to router was disconnected. App was reset and reconfigured using WiFi (no SonosNet). System worked in all instances I.e. Move speaker remained visible on App, Move speaker could be moved outdoors and back in and Alexa ‘remained’. Speakers could be grouped and music streamed. After approx 4 hours the extender was plugged back in. Approx 1 hour late the Move speaker had ‘disappeared’ from the App, presumably after picking up the stronger signal from the extender?

There are other items in the same room as the Move speaker which all work perfectly well via the extender, radiator valve, electrical socket. The extender is required to improve the signal into the area and needs to be set up as the router to maintain these connections.

 How do I get the Move speaker to remain visible in the App? My set up is as you describe in your point 2. I have sent a diagnostic report as requested.

 

 

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Diagnostic report: 249943723

Further to the previous reply I have sent an additional diagnostic report.

It would appear that when in the same room and presumably connected to the WiFi via the extender that the Move speaker becomes visible in the App?

i.e.

Ipad connected to router WiFi, Move speaker connected to router WiFi = Move visible in App

Ipad connected to router WiFi, Move speaker connected to extender WiFi = Move NOT visible in App

Ipad connected to extender WiFi, Move speaker connected to extender WiFi = Move visible in App

I reiterate, the extender details are cloned and identical to the router. (WiFi extender is TP Link, AV 200 power line)

Does the Move speaker have to be within Bluetooth range to be visible in the App?

Userlevel 3
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Hi @Sonosmark, thank you for providing a detailed response and for submitting the diagnostic reports.

Your Sonos Move should be connected to your WiFi network to appear on the Sonos app. 

Upon checking the reports, your Sonos speakers are connecting to your WiFi extenders. Your observation is correct, since your WiFi extenders information is cloned from your router, your speakers will be able to connect to it. 

To address your concern here our recommendations:

1. Switch to SonosNet. Hardwire one of your speakers to your router.
2. Change SSID or the WiFi name of your extenders. Sonos will only connect to the recognized network.

To further assist you with this, you may continue working with us over the phone. You can contact our Sonos Customer Care support with your full network setup including the make and model of each device.

If you need help with any other information, please be sure to let us know.

The Sonos Community is always here to help.

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Hi Rowena

Thanks for your replies. With regard your recommendations:

  1. SonosNet does not connect to Move so is not an option
  2. As explained, changing the SSID of the extender is NOT an option due to other items connected to the network via the extender.

It appears that the Move is unable to recognise that the extender is the same WiFi network as the router, unlike every other device I have. This is therefore obviously an issue with the Sonos Move software. The issue did not exist with the Play 5 that the Move has replaced.

As explained in my previous message, the Move speaker does appear in the App when the ‘controller’ is connected to WiFi via the extender, I.e. when in the conservatory. I will continue to use the system in this configuration and monitor for now to see how this works out. If this fails to be satisfactory then I will return the Move and reuse the Play 5 which operated perfectly well but was not portable.

Userlevel 3
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Hi @Sonosmark, thank you for your response and we appreciate your feedback. I understand what you're feeling about this.

As per Sonos system requirements, If you need to extend your home WiFi to use Sonos in a wireless setup, we recommend using a WiFi mesh router to do so.

If you need further assistance on this, please reach out to our Sonos Customer Care support for more in-depth troubleshooting steps to provide you the best option.

We and the community are always here to help.

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Hi Rowena

If I understand, I need to create a ‘mesh’ WiFi system in order to get the Move speaker to be recognised by the App?

I’m quite confident that there is nothing up with my current set up, in fact, all my wireless items work perfectly well on both the main router WiFi and the extender WiFi.

There is obviously an issue with either the S2 App or the Move software. One, or both of which are not recognising the extender WiFi with the same SSID & password as the same network. Somehow, the extender network is being treated as separate network. Again, I stress this is not an issue with any other wireless items including the Play 5 that the Move has replaced in the exact same location.

I have been a customer of Sonos since 2012 and am both disappointed and insulted that Sonos feel that the best advice to give is to buy additional hardware to overcome what is obviously a Sonos software issue. As previously stated, I will monitor the operation under my current set up and if not fully satisfied will return the speaker and reinstall the Play 5.

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

Try this...

  1. Unplug all Sonos
  2. Unplug the extender
  3. Reboot your router
  4. Plug in the extender
  5. Disable the extenders DHCP capability in settings.
  6. As was indicated by @Rowena B. give the extender the same SSID and Passphrase as the main router
  7. Plug in your Sonos one by one and let each come back before moving to the next
  8. Setup the Move as the last speaker according to instructions 

Let us know how things sort out.

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Hi @AjTrek1 

Thanks for reaching out. The extender is a Powerline AV200 WiFi extender, I am not sure if it is possible to make the adjustment you describe in point 5? With regard to point 6, the SSID & password are the same as the main router (this is necessary and cannot be changed in order that other wireless accessories connected via the extender continue to correctly operate). The extender was setup using WPS.

With regard your additional suggestions, my original setup (Playbar, Play 3 & Play 5) have all worked satisfactorily on my existing network. The problem has only occurred since ‘upgrading!’ the Play 5 to a Move. Initially I updated the App to S2 and added the Move after removing the Play 5. I noticed the Move would appear in the App then disappear. The Playbar & Play 3 were connected using SonosNet, the Move was on WiFi (it will not detect SonosNet). So, I disconnected the Playbar (wired to the router) and reset the system using WiFi. I now have the system operating as described previously. When in the conservatory with my IPad connected via the extender all speakers are visible, when the IPad is connected via the main router then the Move disappears.

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

What you’re describing clearly shows that your router and the extender are generating there own IP address. The only way to cure the problem is to turn off DHCP for the extender or purchase a new router with greater range and remove the extender.

 

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Hi @AjTrek1 

I’ll look into the extender and to whether DHCP can be disabled. I’m not sure I follow your logic though, if the extender is providing an IP address then why did the Play 5 work using the exact same set up, I.e. located in the same position, connected via the same extender with the same settings? Also, why, when in the conservatory with the Move speaker do the other 2 speakers remain visible in the App? Also, would what you describe not affect other wireless devices connected in the same manner, for example a smart TRV?

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

When you had a Sonos speaker wired to your router all Sonos was using the SonosNet which by-passed your home wi-fi including the extender.  By your own admission the extender is the root of your issue. Read your comment below: 

The extender was removed (unplugged), Playbar which was hard wired to router was disconnected. App was reset and reconfigured using WiFi (no SonosNet). System worked in all instances I.e. Move speaker remained visible on App, Move speaker could be moved outdoors and back in and Alexa ‘remained’. Speakers could be grouped and music streamed. After approx 4 hours the extender was plugged back in. Approx 1 hour late the Move speaker had ‘disappeared’ from the App, presumably after picking up the stronger signal from the extender?

No matter how you resist...you will not resolve your issue until you ether remove the extender or disable it’s DHCP.  Other wi-fi devices that are not trying to sync in unison throughout your home (like Sonos) are not affected when jumping from router to extender and vise-versa to a noticeable extent.

I have a Mesh network with a main router and two nodes (or as you might call them extenders). Only the main router has DHCP capability. My Sonos operates on the SonosNet with the exception of my two Moves on wi-fi. All show in the Sonos app.

No offense intended but my suggestion is too enlist the aid of a knowledgeable friend if you are unable to resolve the DHCP issue with your extender.  Let us know how things sort out.

I’ve mentioned the names of some of the other knowledgeable community members who may see this and chime in.

@melvimbe @Airgetlam @John B @Ken_Griffiths 

Cheers!

 

Sonosmark,

The below views/suggestions are entirely my own and please note they may contradict other peoples viewpoint, which should also be considered carefully, as there are a number of ways to perhaps approach and solve your issue.

 

First thing to add, is that a Sonos Move does not run on SonosNet (WM: 0) - it will only run on a 2.4ghz or 5ghz WiFi Signal. I recommend using the 2.4ghz band in this situation. The reason the Move does not use SonosNet is that it is designed as a portable/moveable device that can be carried around the home and the last thing needed, is it interrupting/breaking any existing SonosNet communication between other fixed Sonos devices as it is moved around the premises. So it will only run on a 2.4ghz or 5ghz WiFi signal and note that the network/band it is using is shown in the Sonos App "Settings/System/Network/Networks"

 

If using SonosNet for the rest of the system, then ensure the SonosNet channel is set at least 5 channels away from the main routers 2.4ghz WiFi channel, which should ideally use one of the non-overlapping channels - 1, 6, or 11 and be ‘fixed’. I recommend using a channel width of 20 MHz for that band and 40MHz channel-width for the routers 5ghz band.

 

Sonos Controllers locate the Sonos Household devices using SSDP, (the UPnP discovery protocol). This is sent as UDP multicast and broadcast on the subnet and I think a ‘possible suggestion’ here  might be that the the mobile controller is connecting to one access point and the speaker is perhaps connecting to another (different) access point and for some reason the local WiFi network system is not allowing successful SSDP communication, or the packets are being severely interrupted over the power-line communication link.

 

I’ve seen similar issues quickly resolved in the past (in the main Sonos community) by running all devices on SonosNet instead, but clearly that is not achievable with a Sonos Move, but would be with a Sonos Play:5, for example.

 

If a WiFi access point is used, it is usually best to use a wired 3rd party device that links directly back to the main router, or a WiFi Repeater. 

 

The most problematic WiFi access points can be power-line adapters that run over electrical ring mains etc; as they can in some instances appear to often work okay, but signal dropouts/interference can occur over such links unless the cables are well shielded ...and usually they are not.

 

When configuring a nearby access point, I personally choose to use the same WiFi SSID credentials/password/subnet and I ensure they run on the same WiFi channels, with the same channel-width for both the 2.4ghz & 5ghz bands as precisely set on the main router, but even then, if using a non-ethernet linked access point back to the main router there can be dropouts, particularly with a power-line linked WiFi adapter as there are many variables where signal interference can occur.

 

Such devices are clearly mentioned in the Sonos System requirements as not being supported. See the following link:

Sonos System Requirements

 

That said however, in some circumstances these devices may still work, but it very much depends on the 3rd Party device itself and also it’s operating environment.

 

I would try to ensure any WiFi adapter is setup to mirror the main router’s WiFi signal exactly as described, including using the same subnet, channels and channel-width and if it still doesn’t work, then the answer is to perhaps try the device in a different (nearby) power outlet, or consider using a different type of access point.

 

Please note (important), I’m assuming in the situation mentioned here, that the 2.4ghz WiFi signal from the main router is insufficient strength to reach the Sonos Move device satisfactory in the room where it is to be used.

 

If there is no desire to run ethernet cables to the location there are some other options that can be  considered...

  1. If the problem persists after correct configuration with the power-line WiFi adapter, I would consider changing the access point and perhaps try a WiFi repeater/extender instead, operating as a ‘man in the middle’ between the main router and the Move.
  2. If practicable try using a WiFi access point cabled to a nearby/closest Sonos Speaker that is running on SonosNet, it’s not ideal, but may work better than a power-line adapter WiFi access point.

I hope the above suggestions help to provide some further ideas to perhaps try.

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Hi @AjTrek1 

Firstly, if my previous post upset or offended you please accept my apologies as this was certainly not my intention. From experience the expertise and advice from fellow users is by far second to none. Indeed, I find more and more these days that manufacturers are tending to step away from product support in favour of forums such as this. Personally I find this attitude sickening especially when you take into account the amount of money spent on these products. So again, sorry.

I sort of answered my own questions from my last post, after posting realising, as you say, that the Play 5 was very probably connected via SonosNet. With regard the TRV in the conservatory this is connected to its own network via a hub (TADO). The ‘smart’ socket in the conservatory I feel will probably work however it is connected to a WiFi network.

From the research I have been able to do so far, I do not think the Powerline adaptor has DHCP capability but will continue to investigate this. At the moment I have been unable to get access to the settings so am reliant on web information. What I did try was moving my Play 3 speaker into the conservatory this morning and found this continued to be seen in the App.

@Ken_Griffiths 

Thank you also for reaching out. Your post is quite long but very informative so will a take a little more reading to fully digest. I fully understand your reservations with regard the powerline adaptors. As an electrician I still wonder as to the safety of the things!! It took some time for me to go along this route but have been using them now for several years and have to admit they do work very surprisingly well.

Update

So, after moving the Play 3 into the conservatory and finding it was still visible in the App I realised that the Move was also visible in the App when I was OUT of the conservatory, I.e. connected to the main router WiFi. What I also noticed whilst checking my heating system was that there was a period of time when the TRV’s had been offline. On further investigation I found that the router had been down for approx 30 minutes during the night.

So, my set up is still exactly the same, the only thing that has changed is that the router has rebooted. Going back to what @AjTrek1 had said in point 3 of an earlier post, this, it would appear, fingers crossed, may have solved the issue. Presumably from this, DHCP at the extender is either non-existent or not a problem? Either way, for now everything is working as it should which is good as I like the concept of the Move (I had originally been contemplating getting a Play 1 for use outside), the portability is a great bonus.

Thank you all for your help so far. 

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

I took no offense to your posts. My apologies if my response(s) led you to believe so. Glad to know that your Sonos is working as you desire 😀. 
 

Yes, @Ken_Griffiths response was a mini novella. However, if he is anything it’s thorough and that is why he is one of the most respected members of the community. Thanks @Ken_Griffiths for lending your voice. Well done! 😁👍

Cheers!


What I did try was moving my Play 3 speaker into the conservatory this morning and found this continued to be seen in the App.

It’s perhaps worth bearing in mind here, that where you now have this fully working Play 3 Speaker running on SonosNet in the conservatory, that the speakers ethernet port can be used to connect a (wired) Wifi access point, which in turn will link any connected devices back to the Router over the SonosNet signal. Just something you could perhaps utilise to possibly improve the WiFi connection, perhaps?

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Hi @AjTrek1 & @Ken_Griffiths 

Quick update as my previous update was unintentionally misleading. I’m not sure as to how or why everything seemed to be ok yesterday morning, it may have been down to the router going offline or it may have just been a glitch. However, now things are back to ‘normal’!!

What I have discovered (and learnt a lot) is that the IP address is definitely provided by the main router and is not altered by the extenders. Yes, I have 2, I’d forgotten about the one upstairs which is integral to a socket outlet. What appears to be happening is that the extenders are replicating the main network using the same SSID and password so devices are connecting using an IP address from the main router. (Turns out the Playbar is on the main router network, the Play 3 is on the upstairs extender and the Move is on the conservatory extender!!!) The extender ‘networks’ seem to be networks within a network and although all are the ‘same’ network they are somehow separate. Moving around the house with a device works as it will reattach to the stronger signal (this also explains why there is sometimes a ‘dropout’ which I’ve always blamed on the ISP). 

Anyway, although the setup works I’ve also learned quite a bit from this experience so am intending to upgrade and install a mesh network which should overcome all the above.

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

Glad to know that you’ve figured out the cause of your issues. Switching over to a Mesh network is a good idea. 

FYI, some Mesh networks while good for whole home coverage can still be problematic for Sonos. I too run a Mesh network but to eliminate any issues with my Sonos I have a Sonos Boost module wired to the main router thus creating the SonosNet. You can create the SonosNet by wiring a speaker but I find the cost of the Boost module ($99 USD) a good investment to allow freedom of Sonos speaker placement.

I’m typing this on my cell phone which makes it a bit difficult to insert links. That said you can click on the Sonos Support link (instead of Community) and type “change Networks” in the search field.  You’ll see links on how to properly switch Sonos when changing networks and/or routers.

Once again congratulations on getting your Sonos running properly.

Cheers!
 

Do you mean the standard and boost modes FAQ?

Userlevel 7

@Sonosmark 

The links suggested by @Airgetlam are of good note as well. In the grand scheme you can switch Sonos over to your Mesh by typing the generic phrase I suggested. If you run into issues with Sonos (on the Mesh) then you might consider changing Sonos over to wired/boost mode by using the link supplied by Airgetlam.

Sonos is so versatile...sometimes to its own detriment...making it difficult to know where to start. However, that’s where the brilliant minds of the likes of Airgetlam (and myself) are here to help navigate the waters. LOL :joy:  

Cheers!

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Hi @AjTrek1 

Thanks to you and everybody else who has contributed, I’ve learnt quite a lot from this experience. As well as getting the Move working (visible to the app from everywhere) I’ve also hopefully improved my WiFi setup.


I’ve now installed the mesh network (Amazon, arrived less than 24hrs after ordering, without Prime!) Although I’m not a fan of BT I’ve gone for the whole home mini, 3 discs, currently on a good offer at less than £75 for my my first ’toe in the water’ trial. Set up in less than 30 mins and so far all good. Signal throughout the house is a lot stronger. Both WiFi extenders are now redundant. Sonos, which is currently on the WiFi is now showing all speakers correctly and working as well as ever. 🎶 I’ll see how this goes for now but will keep in mind SonosNet if any issues develop, thanks again 👍

Userlevel 7

Hi @Sonosmark 

Congratulations on getting everything sorted out! 😀

Enjoy your Sonos and feel free to come back to this post if you need additional assistance. 

Cheers!

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