Still no DLNA support in Sonos (using jellyfin)

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I have a jellyfin server running on my Linux box, which is serving as my DLNA server, for music,etc.

I cannot find a way to get Sonos to see jellyfin.

I have tried going into music library setup and adding
\\moray.lan:8096\web\index.html

Nothing. I don’t see it in the jellyfin log, or in the firewall (ufw) log

 

This server is available via browser, android jellyfin app, my Denon receiver, Roku, etc

Only Sonos fails.

Years ago, I added the music files via a Samba server, using the ugly SMB protocol. It works sending info to Sonos. But I prefer to switch to DLNA.

 

I spent 90 minutes on the phone with Sonos support, but didn’t get very far. They agreed to put in a request for DLNA support. They were not happy that I was using Linux, though they claim support for NAS. They suggested that I install Plex, which is available for Linux. It is a possible solution, but I want support for 19 year old DLNA protocol.

I can use the android jellyfin app to broadcast music to Sonos, though it shows up as PCM 44.1 KHz input on my receiver

If the receiver plays directly from jellyfin, the input is flac, which is the way it should be.

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17 replies

Ken_Griffiths

This is my own personal understanding…

UPnP and DLNA are two different standards. 

DLNA was derived from UPnP, as an attempt to normalize media interoperability. It does this partly by being more restrictive than UPnP (e.g. by restricting the number of media formats) and partly by adding features (like DRM, i.e. copy protection).

The Sonos format appears to be based around UPnP, so presumably it’s a compatibility issue as I’ve not seen the App, or Sonos Support Pages mention DLNA, they only refer to UPnP Servers or (Windows) Media Servers. So maybe you’re going to be ‘out of luck’ with your chosen old media server software.

 

Airgetlam

And, to my knowledge, there’s never been any official statements from Sonos that they intend to provide support for either of these. I’m sure that Support can pass on the desire for implementation, but given the lack of widespread clamoring for this, it seems unlikely. 

Bruce
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As far as I can tell, UPnP support in Sonos is spotty, at best.

There are many complaints about people with UPnP servers which are not found by Sonos.

There doesn’t seem to be clear documentation about what Sonos needs to find a UPnP server.

If you know otherwise, please share a link.

I started Sonos when the only network server was SMB, which was miserable to set up.

Sonos documentation says:

“Sonos can play music from compatible UPnP servers on your network. “

but does not say what makes a server compatible

controlav
Userlevel 7
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I assume you have enabled “show upnp servers” in the app?

Adding the html url you listed to the music library list is not going to help you, that is for SMB shares.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
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Yes, thanks, I added show upnp servers.

I see other complaints about UPnP servers not showing up in Sonos. Here’s one example below. Sonos support does not seem to be familiar with UPnP servers. I spend more than an hour discussing servers with them, and they only wanted me to use a proprietary server, plex

Problems with UPnP server

N
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One more thought.

Tonight, I am comparing the same files through two different, both playing through my Denon receiver, some speakers, etc. The files are flac, ripped from CDs.

  1. Sonos through SMB playing through a Connect, 1st generation, through Denon, using an optical input.
  2. Denon through Jellyfin, DLNA

Sonos is flat, Denon is more vibrant. Denon recognizes that it is playing flac files. When playing through Sonos, Denon sees PCM input, 44.1 kHz.

I assume that Sonos is resampling the files, though I don’t understand how.

When I play Idagio through Sonos and Denon, I see flac, but not when I am playing the SMB files.

I don’t blame SMB for the flatness. I think that is on Sonos. I have tried playing directly from my Linux box to Denon, via an optical input, and I think that is better than Sonos, though I need to do more testing here.

pwt
Userlevel 7
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One more thought.

Tonight, I am comparing the same files through two different, both playing through my Denon receiver, some speakers, etc. The files are flac, ripped from CDs.

  1. Sonos through SMB playing through a Connect, 1st generation, through Denon, using an optical input.
  2. Denon through Jellyfin, DLNA

Sonos is flat, Denon is more vibrant. Denon recognizes that it is playing flac files. When playing through Sonos, Denon sees PCM input, 44.1 kHz.

I assume that Sonos is resampling the files, though I don’t understand how.

When I play Idagio through Sonos and Denon, I see flac, but not when I am playing the SMB files.

I don’t blame SMB for the flatness. I think that is on Sonos. I have tried playing directly from my Linux box to Denon, via an optical input, and I think that is better than Sonos, though I need to do more testing here.

The Connect is decoding the FLAC file and supplying the resulting PCM bitstream to the receiver.

When playing directly from DLNA, the receiver is decoding the FLAC file and generating the PCM bitstream.

Provided that the Connect is set to use fixed volume, the bitstreams from the two sources will be identical, and the audio indistinguishable.

If the Connect is using variable volume, then the bitstream will be altered to allow for volume variability.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
N
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As far as I can tell, the Connect is not limiting the volume, the volume limit is set to off.

Is there something else in Sonos which would limit volume?

pwt
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As far as I can tell, the Connect is not limiting the volume, the volume limit is set to off.

Is there something else in Sonos which would limit volume?

The specific device setting you’re looking for is “Line Out Level”. Set this to “Fixed”.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
N
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Thanks for the suggestion.

Setting Line Out Level to Fixed does sound better. I don’t quite understand why. If the problem with variable Line-Out Level is just volume, I could increase the volume on the receiver, and the sound would be fine.

Unfortunately, using Fixed Line-Out Level isn’t a great fit for my use case. In addition to the Connect in the living room, I have a nearby Sonos pair in the kitchen. The are often set to the same source.

With variable level, I can modify the volume in both room in the same time with the Sonos app.

With fixed level, if I want to modify the volume in both rooms, I have to

  1. modify the level in the kitchen with the Sonos app
  2. modify the volume in the living room with an app which controls the receiver volume, either harmony, or an app directly supporting Denon.
pwt
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Setting Line Out Level to Fixed does sound better. I don’t quite understand why. If the problem with variable Line-Out Level is just volume, I could increase the volume on the receiver, and the sound would be fine.

When Variable Volume is used, the Connect has to modify the PCM bitstream to emulate ‘quieter’ source content: that’s why it sounds different (although any difference ought to be very slight). The use of EQ and Loudness settings will also alter the bitstream.

If you want to eliminate any bitstream modification, you have to use Fixed Volume.

Those are the choices.

One thing you might consider is using the Connect’s analog output (i.e., use the Connect’s internal DAC) with variable volume, and seeing how that sounds.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
N
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Thanks for your explanation @pwt 

Now that you mention it, I can see that Connect would have to modify the PCM bitstream.

To my ears, the difference between fixed and variable is quite noticeable, and results in noticeable drop in quality.

I’m not quite sure what makes the best solution, but I finally understand the problem better.

pwt
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To my ears, the difference between fixed and variable is quite noticeable, and results in noticeable drop in quality.

Any differences ought to be very hard to discern, assuming EQ and Loudness settings aren’t applied in the variable volume case.

Ears are very sensitive to differences in volume -- even very slight differences that one might not consciously notice -- with louder sources preferred. Perhaps it’s possible you’re not experiencing exactly the same volume level when comparing the two settings.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
N
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Good catch. Loudness was turned on.

Oddly, when I first clicked on EQ, Loudness was off, then 2 seconds later, I watched Loudness move to on. Perhaps just a delay in the app.

I don’t remember ever setting Loudness, and don’t think that I would do it on purpose, unless I tested it once, and forgot to turn it off.

One more thing to try.

And, in fact, I notice that loudness is on for all of the Sonos devices. Wonder if this is a default.

When cmparing earlier, I did adjust the volume. I suspect that the difference is not volume.

W
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Yes, thanks, I added show upnp servers.

I see other complaints about UPnP servers not showing up in Sonos. Here’s one example below. Sonos support does not seem to be familiar with UPnP servers. I spend more than an hour discussing servers with them, and they only wanted me to use a proprietary server, plex

Problems with UPnP server

It appears they want you do use Plex because it requires an ongoing fee to Plex, with whom they presumably have a relationship.

jgatie

It appears they want you do use Plex because it requires an ongoing fee to Plex, with whom they presumably have a relationship.

 

If by "relationship" you mean a financial deal, you are mistaken.  Sonos has no financial deals with 3rd party services.  The partnerships with music services are not financial, and any service who wishes can use the Sonos API to add themselves to the Sonos app for free.

Airgetlam

This is borne out by the financial reports that Sonos releases yearly, as a public company. No financial relationship whatsoever. 

Bruce
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