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Due to rights restrictions…!

  • 12 September 2021
  • 20 replies
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I’m getting that infuriating ‘due to rights restrictions’ message again when trying to listen to Radio 4 PM today. 
So I have to find Sounds on my phone or use my old digital radio to listen.

Just wondering why Sonos is so unreliable??

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Best answer by Ralpfocus 13 September 2021, 10:12

As you are based in the UK maybe use radioplayer for all UK radio stations. It is jointly owned by the major UK broadcasters so it is probably reasonable to expect that it should be pretty trouble free.

 

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As I’m sure that you’ve read elsewhere, it is the BBC that is restricting access to it’s content from certain content providers.  Sonos aren’t in the loop of this discussion, so why make a statement that Sonos is so unreliable? If you had an LG TV would you blame LG if the BBC stopped access to a TV channel?

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Hmm that’s not really the same is it??  The channel is  BBC Radio 4 as far as users are concerned. If I couldn’t get a TV channel on my LG TV but I could on a different TV device then I would be blaming LG….

this is how it feels to users….

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Hmm that’s not really the same is it??  The channel is  BBC Radio 4 as far as users are concerned. If I couldn’t get a TV channel on my LG TV but I could on a different TV device then I would be blaming LG….

this is how it feels to users….

So Sonos is providing the hardware and the ability to connect to different content providers.  The BBC decide which content providers they will allow access to their content.  In this instance the BBC have removed their content from TuneIn, please explain why this makes Sonos unreliable?

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Ok yes but from the user’s viewpoint what it means is that ‘I can’t play Radio 4 on my Sonos system’ - and that is why I see so many complaints about this on the Sonos community forum… it may not be Sonos’s fault directly but it effect is the same. 
I guess what we need to know is why Sonos is unable to use a reliable content provider… what is it about Sonos/TuneIn that the BBC objects to…?

I’d suggest you frame it in the opposite way. ‘Why does the BBC restrict their content from certain providers at times’? The rest of TuneIn seems to be working fine, so it’s apparent that it isn’t a TuneIn problem. Since BBC owns the servers that support these streams, there must be some reason why they restrict it. My personal guess is that the content hasn’t been approved for ‘outside the UK’ streaming rights, I.e. licensing issues of some type. For instance, there were recent issues particularly with both the Olympics and Paralympics, and I frequently have trouble with F1 coverage. 

Many folks have found relief by trying other streams, such as RadioTuner, etc, but the ultimate responsibility here is owned by the BBC. They are the ones who are choosing to cut off streams provided to various companies. Those companies don’t have a radio tower and a license, they actually get their data directly from servers operated by the BBC.

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Let’s hope you don’t get a power cut because you’re probably going to blame that on Sonos from a user’s viewpoint!:joy:

amjl,

In the US many sports teams do not want their games broadcast over the Internet. For listeners using an Internet player, SONOS or otherwise, the radio station feed will switch to some sort of dummy content while a game is playing. Away games might be broadcast on the local terrestrial radio station. Local games will play on the local terrestrial radio station only if the stadium is sold out.

Terrestrial radio coverage is managed by geography. Internet coverage must be managed by messages and dummy content.

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I’d suggest you frame it in the opposite way. ‘Why does the BBC restrict their content from certain providers at times’? The rest of TuneIn seems to be working fine, so it’s apparent that it isn’t a TuneIn problem. Since BBC owns the servers that support these streams, there must be some reason why they restrict it. My personal guess is that the content hasn’t been approved for ‘outside the UK’ streaming rights, I.e. licensing issues of some type. For instance, there were recent issues particularly with both the Olympics and Paralympics, and I frequently have trouble with F1 coverage. 

Many folks have found relief by trying other streams, such as RadioTuner, etc, but the ultimate responsibility here is owned by the BBC. They are the ones who are choosing to cut off streams provided to various companies. Those companies don’t have a radio tower and a license, they actually get their data directly from servers operated by the BBC.

Thanks for this helpful information. I’m within the UK so a little puzzling still. I switched to Radioplayer and could then play Radio 4 fine. So it seemed to be a problem between TuneIn and BBC. But I still think Sonos should get involved in this (I’m not dignifying one other responder’s comment re electricity supply with an answer! All systems need electricity) - for the end user it’s Sonos that seems the problem when every other platform works fine…I know I’m far from the only one that thinks this. Thanks again.

 

 

 

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My 👅 in cheek comment about electricity was in reference to the multitude of issues that can impact your Sonos devices, from power, your ISP, location, andcontent providers. You have decided to focus on placing the responsibility on Sonos but you fail to mention if you have raised a similar complaint to both the BBC and TuneIn.

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As you are based in the UK maybe use radioplayer for all UK radio stations. It is jointly owned by the major UK broadcasters so it is probably reasonable to expect that it should be pretty trouble free.

 

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My 👅 in cheek comment about electricity was in reference to the multitude of issues that can impact your Sonos devices, from power, your ISP, location, andcontent providers. You have decided to focus on placing the responsibility on Sonos but you fail to mention if you have raised a similar complaint to both the BBC and TuneIn.

Ok. Right I’ve been thinking about this (it’s raining outside! 😉) . It is Sonos that we pay significant money to, not TuneIn. Sonos claims you can listen to radio. When the ‘relationship’ - whatever it is - between Sonos and radio transmission services go wrong we do naturally blame Sonos who we’ve paid large amounts of money to….
 

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As you are based in the UK maybe use radioplayer for all UK radio stations. It is jointly owned by the major UK broadcasters so it is probably reasonable to expect that it should be pretty trouble free.

 

Unfortunately I’ve had problems with Radioplayer in the past too so doesn’t solve the issue long term….. 

Userlevel 7
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My 👅 in cheek comment about electricity was in reference to the multitude of issues that can impact your Sonos devices, from power, your ISP, location, andcontent providers. You have decided to focus on placing the responsibility on Sonos but you fail to mention if you have raised a similar complaint to both the BBC and TuneIn.

Ok. Right I’ve been thinking about this (it’s raining outside! 😉) . It is Sonos that we pay significant money to, not TuneIn. Sonos claims you can listen to radio. When the ‘relationship’ - whatever it is - between Sonos and radio transmission services go wrong we do naturally blame Sonos who we’ve paid large amounts of money to….
 

I'm sorry but I still don't see this as a Sonos issue, something that perhaps we just need to agree to disagree on.  Sonos are also a content provider where they have control of content and I'm listening to BBC Radio 4 through Sonos Radio.

The fact that TuneIn and the BBC haven't agreed a contractual framework to play via TuneIn but Sonos provide the option to play via their content provision removes the responsibility from Sonos IMHO.

It’s like being mad at LG/Samsung because you spent so much money on your TV, but your local cable provider doesn’t offer HBO, or is blocking local access to a sporting event (common here in the US, with baseball and football broadcasts which are limited by broadcast agreements).

Sonos is just a ‘TV’ for the ears. They provide access to a bunch of channels that you ‘watch’, but don’t have any control over what is on those channels.

Note: this analogy does break down slightly in the Sonos radio HD channels that Sonos produces themselves, but is valid for all external company streams. 

There are tens of thousands of stations available and each station can fuss with its streaming setup and rights management at any time. It is very difficult for an aggregator, such as TuneIn, to keep current. I don’t know TuneIn’s current schedule, but at one point they updated their database once every 24 hours. They would research reported issues, but it could require a few days to resolve -- if resolution was possible.

During a local station tour I noticed a lonely PC buried at one end of an equipment rack and was told that the PC managed the station’s streaming. No one on staff understood or paid much attention to that PC and if an issue was discovered, the staff would bring it to the the attention of the network administrator when he next dropped by the station. This was not a high priority for the station.

 

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It’s like being mad at LG/Samsung because you spent so much money on your TV, but your local cable provider doesn’t offer HBO, or is blocking local access to a sporting event (common here in the US, with baseball and football broadcasts which are limited by broadcast agreements).

Sonos is just a ‘TV’ for the ears. They provide access to a bunch of channels that you ‘watch’, but don’t have any control over what is on those channels.

Note: this analogy does break down slightly in the Sonos radio HD channels that Sonos produces themselves, but is valid for all external company streams. 

I think it all depends on where you’re coming from… I wouldn’t spend lots of money on a TV that couldn’t receive BBC channels if I could get them on every other type of TV. This is how it seems for me with Sonos…. 

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You couldn't really complain if you lived in the Shetlands and couldn't get BBC One Channel Islands.on your TV. 

A Sonos device is simply the endpoint for a stream - the issue here lies with third party stream providers, BBC or the other aggregators which just pass on the stream url. 

Userlevel 7
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Historically speaking BBC users, and especially Radio 4 users, seem to be an entitled lot, based on multiple threads on this forum. Of all the issues with streaming the BBC I can recall one that was actually a technical issue with Sonos, all of the others have been root caused to the BBC themselves, or their interactions with their aggregators.

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Historically speaking BBC users, and especially Radio 4 users, seem to be an entitled lot, based on multiple threads on this forum. Of all the issues with streaming the BBC I can recall one that was actually a technical issue with Sonos, all of the others have been root caused to the BBC themselves, or their interactions with their aggregators.

Ok, calling a halt now as resorting to personal insults doesn’t help anyone’s argument.. Thanks to those who have given me helpful responses. I do understand but still hold to the end user view.

What I haven't seen exaplined very clearly here, is the fact that in his “end user view” @amjl appears to conflate TuneIn with Sonos, likely because it is the default option for listening to radio on Sonos.

That is not “end user view”, that is an oversimplification that causes unrealistic expectations. You simply cannot say it does not work on Sonos, because it does - you just have to select one of the many other content providers that Sonos offers access to.

Your comparison to certain channels being available on one brand of TV but not on the others, is flawed, because the restriction is not due to Sonos (the TV) but due to the content provider (TuneIn i.e. “the cable provider”). I expect this behavior is the same on competing systems like Denon and Bluesound. So the correct TV analogy would be that the brand of TV is irrelevant, but you would be able to get the channel you are looking for by switching to another cable provider.

Would you blame Sonos because certain artists are not on Spotify, but are on Tidal, or Apple Music?

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