Contributor I

Wifi only config with Arc, Ones, and Sub Mini?

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I’m having trouble finding a clear answer on this. I have a Sonos Arc, two Ones, and a Sub Mini configured together in a HT setup. My goal is to not use SonosNet and to have each device on wifi.

To do this, I disconnected my Arc from being hardwired to ethernet. It is now on Wifi, on a 2.4GHz radio. The system seems to work fine, but oddly I dont see the Ones or the Sub Mini on my router’s client list.

I also tried to keep the Arc connected hardwired to ethernet and “disable wifi” but I believe that killed the grouping.

What’s the correct way to do this also the way to confirm it? Having the Arc stuck on 2.4ghz plus no other wifi clients makes me think its on SonosNet. I see the network type info is no longer in the app..

Thanks!

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T

txbdanAuthor

Contributor I

@txbdan

Maybe this explanation will help.

Anytime you wire a Sonos speaker/component (there are exceptions) to your router the SonosNet is created. In the early days Sonos sold a device called a Bridge and later the Boost to create the SonosNet when wiring a Sonos speaker/component was not practical.

As has been mentioned the SonosNet today given the improved Wi-Fi gear (routers and Mesh networks) is rarely necessary.

The SonosNet is a hidden network that only a Sonos product can see. No other Wi-Fi enabled product can join. Think of the SonosNet as a supercharged 2.4Ghz band dedicated to Sonos.

The SonosNet (for this conversation) only comes into play for autonomous Sonos products. Speakers used as surrounds and subs are tethered to a Sonos soundbar or speaker (you might call the Host) by a process called Bonding. They (surrounds/subs) are not autonomous as all information received comes from the Host Sonos speaker sent over a Sonos proprietary 5Ghz band.

All said if you have removed the Ethernet connection between your Arc and router and everything is working properly (i.e. sub and surrounds) your HT is working over your Home Wi_Fi. The SonosNet is no longer active.

As has also been said you may not see your sub and surrounds in your routers client list. However, that is router specific.

Below are Sonos speakers that cannot create the SonosNet:

Speakers used as surrounds
Subs
Era 100 *
Era 300 *
Move (Gen 1/2) *
Roam (Gen 1/2) *

* Additionally these speakers will not create nor join the SonosNet

Thanks. So what frequency or wifi band does the Sonos proprietary network run on? My aim here is to reduce the number of wifi networks I have going or at least to understand where they are so I can pick wifi channels to avoid them.

For example

5Ghz has my wifi, and Sonos proprietary network

2.4ghz has my wifi, zigbee, Hue Hub

Ken_Griffiths

Thanks. So what frequency or wifi band does the Sonos proprietary network run on? My aim here is to reduce the number of wifi networks I have going or at least to understand where they are so I can pick wifi channels to avoid them.

For example

5Ghz has my wifi, and Sonos proprietary network

2.4ghz has my wifi, zigbee, Hue Hub

SonosNet uses a 2.4Ghz wireless band with a channel-width of 20Mhz only and the channel in use is shown in the Sonos App network settings. It uses non-overlapping channels only, so either channel 1, 6, or 11. So if your App shows it is using channel 6, as an example, the set your own router to use channel 1, or 11, whichever is the least-used around your Home by neighbours.

T

txbdanAuthor

Contributor I

Thanks. So what frequency or wifi band does the Sonos proprietary network run on? My aim here is to reduce the number of wifi networks I have going or at least to understand where they are so I can pick wifi channels to avoid them.

For example

5Ghz has my wifi, and Sonos proprietary network

2.4ghz has my wifi, zigbee, Hue Hub

SonosNet uses a 2.4Ghz wireless band with a channel-width of 20Mhz only and the channel in use is shown in the Sonos App network settings. It uses non-overlapping channels only, so either channel 1, 6, or 11. So if your App shows it is using channel 6, as an example, the set your own router to use channel 1, or 11, whichever is the least-used around your Home by neighbours.

right, but what about the 5ghz network for the home theater group?

MoPac

Headliner III

That 5GHz network for the home theater group is not a network you can see. It is there when you create the home theater group. The soundbar communicates with the other speakers in the group using its own 5GHz network.

The soundbar itself needs to be connected to your 2.4GHz WiFi network. The soundbar will not connect to your 5GHz WiFi network. Even if you have a soundbar not bonded with any other speakers it still will only connect to WiFi 2.4GHz.

AjTrek1

No offense intended but you are really overthinking this concept of proprietary bands used by Sonos. You’re not using the SonosNet 2.4Ghz band unless you have a Sonos product plugged into your router. From what I can gather that’s a non-issue as your Arc is no longer connected to your router which means you’re running Sonos on your home Wi-Fi.

The Sonos 5Ghz band can only be seen by other Sonos products such as a sub or surround speaker. No other non-Sonos product can latch on to it.

I fail to see what you're so concerned about. Unless you live in the backwoods with no neighbors your concern should be the surrounding networks generated by the homes in the surrounding area. . I can see just about every network SSID in my neighborhood. However, I’m not getting interference with any of my Wi-Fi capable products.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

J

John B

Just to be pedantic, the 5GHz traffic between the devices in a HT setup is not using any network. It is just peer-to-peer direct routing.

I

Ian_S

Prodigy III

If you have a Mac, I’d suggest downloading a tool called WiFi Explorer. It will show what WiFi networks are around and will show ‘hidden’ networks like Sonosnet.

In terms of minimising networks, a good idea IMO, you are correct to unplug the Arc as that will create a Sonosnet network whether you want it or not. It is a downside of the Sonos sound bars if you want an ethernet connection. On a non-sound bar Sonos speaker, turning off WiFi with ethernet plugged in will stop Sonosnet. However, the soundbar needs WiFi on for the surrounds and/or sub, else they stop working. There is no way in the app to disable just Sonosnet. I think someone has raised a feature request for this.

The downside of the soundbar using the 5GHz band to communicate directly with surrounds and subs is that it can then only use your 2.4GHz band to talk to the outside world, which may not be your best network, so removing as much interference as you can is a good idea.

So, for you, the minimum set of WiFi networks you can get to under your control is the 2.4/5GHz bands from your router (you can set the channels here etc.) and one hidden 5Ghz network between the Arc and your surrounds/sub. You can’t control the channel of that network AFAIK. However a WiFi scanner may let you ‘find’ it and configure your router 5GHz channels to avoid interfering with it.

J

John B

Just to be pedantic, part 2.

WiFi is a proprietary wireless networking protocol.

SonosNet is also a proprietary wireless networking protocol

SonosNet is therefore not WiFi.

This makes it all the more infuriating (if you are a sad geek) that the Sonos Setting is labelled “Enable / Disable WiFi”, when what it actually does is turn off the speaker’s wireless radio, making wireless communication by that speaker impossible, whether by WiFi, SonosNet or direct routing.

I

Ian_S

Prodigy III

I’d challenge that on the Sonosnet front. I doubt Sonos are running proprietary protocols on radio frequencies reserved for WiFi use, and then writing complex conversion protocols to translate traffic between the outside world and Sonosnet. Haven’t we also seen scenarios where WiFi traffic ends up being wrongly routed over Sonosnet thanks to STP issues? Implying that Sonosnet is more a hidden WiFi network IMO.

The 5GHz bonded network for surrounds/subs appears to behave differently, but is also less problematic.

AjTrek1

I’d challenge that on the Sonosnet front. I doubt Sonos are running proprietary protocols on radio frequencies reserved for WiFi use, and then writing complex conversion protocols to translate traffic between the outside world and Sonosnet. Haven’t we also seen scenarios where WiFi traffic ends up being wrongly routed over Sonosnet thanks to STP issues? Implying that Sonosnet is more a hidden WiFi network IMO.

The 5GHz bonded network for surrounds/subs appears to behave differently, but is also less problematic.

IMHO you’re stoking the fire regarding the OP’s query unnecessarily. The Sonos net IMO has always been a plus for Sonos users.

The creation of it only had a detrimental effect upon Sonos gear when the Bridge and Boost tech became problematic. Those devices has been discontinued in favor of direct Ethernet wiring.

I’m not saying there have never been issues involving the SonosNet and STP however I can’t recall any. Although you’ve been a member in this community since 2009 which pre-dates me by a number of years so your experience exceeds mine.

As has been stated (pedantically 😊) the 5Ghz is a peer to peer connection for all practical purposes. IMO it’s no more invasive (to create unwanted wireless traffic) than connecting two computers wirelessly.

All said once again IMHO the OP’s concern with reducing wireless network traffic in relation to Sonos is minutiae when compared to other possible problematic inside and outside wireless traffic/interference.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

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