Hi ​@GleannanIolair 

Thanks for your post!

Sorry to hear of this bass issue you are having with your Arc setup.

I was going to explain the issue with comparing bass on a speaker with Loudness enabled as compared to one with Loudness disabled, but as you changed this prior to submitting the diagnostic, and tried both settings, it’s clearly not that.

Looking at the diagnostics, I only see one potential issue that might explain things - there is higher-than-liked error rate on the Sub’s radio input. Please ensure that it is playing along with the Arc 100% of the time by placing an ear close to it while playing. The Sub is not reporting interruptions, however, so this does not seem to be the issue. I am also seeing a single report of an ethernet cable being removed - although it does not currently look like the Sub is wired to ethernet, please don’t do so in the future, as it will only make matters worse.

It is possible that the Sub is in slightly the wrong place - you can experiment by moving it an inch/a few centimetres at a time until you find a spot where the bass becomes more prominent.

Another thing worth trying would be to bond the Sub with another speaker - if you experience the same issue with the Sub when it’s bonded to a different speaker than the Arc, it may have an issue - I recommend you get in touch with our technical support team, if this turns out to be the case.

I hope this helps.

Hi Corry,

Thanks for the reply. I tried a few things that didn't make much of a difference. I managed to get access on someone else's iPhone to truplay tune the room and it's sounding much better. Oddly on Android I can't enable/disable the truplay tuning now. I could before...is this missing on the new app? Also it seems rooms I'm almost sure I had truplay tuned quite a while ago have lost their tuning. Not sure how that happened.

As it stands I think the hardware is fine but I'm very suspicious of the software. Previously I remember the pre-tuned system sounding much better in the same room. Tuning was a bonus at that time that just gave everything a lift. Now the same system in the same room is hard to listen to. I've been a sound engineer for live bands in the past; I dont claim to be an expert but I know what I'm listening for, even if it is subjective.

I was thinking about adding a second sub to this room but I just don't think it's worth it based on this recent experience.

Has there ever been any discussions about adding a multi-band equaliser? Truplay is great but it's changing the system to what Sonos think is best (subjective), and there are all sorts of limiting factors like the phone mic state (possibly abused and not performing like new). I don't want to turn this into the iOS vs Android conversation regarding truplay (think we've had enough of that) but please just sort out a usb-c mic for the multitudes asking.

A multi‐band equaliser would at least give customers more control to make your excellent hardware perform the way they want it to. It would be great if you could see what truplay had changed and then tweak the sliders to suit individual preferences. At the minute it's all a bit take it or leave it which is disappointing.

Anyway, excuse what may seem like a rant, it's not meant to. I've loved owning Sonos speakers for nearly 15 years, but I feel like they're not as impressive as they could be. Investing some more time on software to improve the sound control/quality rather than the app look/feel would probably resonate with your customer base a lot more.

Thanks,

Stephen

Hi ​@GleannanIolair 

I am glad to hear it sounds better after TruePlay Tuning!

Yes - we are aware of an issue whereby Advanced TruePlay Tuning, once performed, cannot be deactivated or reactivated via an Android controller and we are investigating. We have no estimate for when a fix might be put in place.

If you remove Sub/Surrounds from a Home Theatre Primary device, TruePlay Tuning will be lost as the profile of the room changes.

TruePlay Tuning is a parametric equaliser, among other things. An EQ with more controls has been requested multiple times, so I can only presume that there were discussions about it, though I was not a part of them and cannot say how they went. There are still only two tone controls available, however.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm still struggling with the bass clarity on my sub. It's powerful but just a muddy mess if I'm honest. Even with truplay, which i assume is still enabled as I can't change the phase of the sub. Nothing else on the android app to tell me from what I can see. It's got to the point i never listen to music in that room. 

Meanwhile the truplay tuned beam and mini sub in another room are sounding much better. And in direct comparisons it definitely seems like the mini has a much punchier bass response compared to the big sub. Not as much power obviously but clarity is everything. 

That got me thinking, would 2 minis suit my listening preference compared to the single big sub. There's a good chance it would, and I could get the lend of a mini to try it... but,  sonos don't allow dual minis in a single "room".

This is all getting a bit frustrating Sonos. This no longer feels like an ecosystem that meets my needs. That's a difficult statement for a long time sonos lover who has recommended sonos to numerous households.

I think the hardware is fine but badly let down by the software. Please get back to basics and enable your speakers to sound epic. That's what we all want i presume. I don't want fancy features, I just want it to sound good.

Maybe i should invest in a setup like what Peter Pee uses to visualise the frequency response I'm experiencing. I shouldn't have to though.

Thanks

It's funny that so many people have different experiences with their system. Some with their Sub, others with Era100/300. Mostly it seems to be related to the latest new products such as Arc ultra, Era100/300 and sub4. If one or more of these speakers are added or only these new speakers in your setup.

Some might also think that their firmware/software is primarily focused on the new speakers so something happens here where various speakers do not cooperate so well.

Since we all experience sound differently, it is impossible to achieve the perfect sound for everyone, whether it is highs or bass. However, you can achieve what the wise believe is the best possible sound for your room. And this is where Trueplay comes in.

But it's just not as simple as running Trueplay and then everything is perfect after that. The placement of your speakers has a big impact, if you move your surround speakers just a little or your Sub you will get a completely different measurement/adjustment of your speakers.

In your case I would try moving your Sub, doesn't have to be far away, you can also just try turning it a little.

I've had Sonos for about 15 years. Started with a Playbar and today I have Arc Ultra-Sub4-Era300 and a Sl. (Playbar-Sub gen2 and play1 are sold)

Have been called "one of the lucky ones" as I've almost never had problems/challenges with my setup. But yes I also experienced some challenges with their App update ;)

Hi ​@Peter_254 , thanks for the reply. I've also owned sonos speakers for about 15 years. In that time I've owned: 

2 x play 5s

4 x play 1s

Connect

Connect amp

Playbase

Sub gen2

Arc

2 x Fives

4 x Ones

Beam

Mini Sub

In all that time I've rarely been unhappy with sonos. I'm now unhappy because I have what I feel is the right hardware but not the software to optimise the system (arc, sub & surrounds). This isn't just a theory,  I've heard this system sound much better. Something is being changed; I'm aware sonos have made frequency response changes to their units with software updates in the past. No warning to customers, a change they feel works best for most but probably screws things for a few but they accept that, and other than truplay and a very basic eq no way to tweak your sound to suit your preference.

I'm aware truplay can be hit or miss and needs retuned after a speaker is moved. This is not helped by the fact I, and most of the people I know, have android (let's pass over that particular nugget of nonsense).

I haven't complained about the app updates; this one or the last app update fiasco a few years ago. Usability doesn't bother me, I'll get used to it, as long as the functionality is there. And i appreciate sonos are trying to plug the gaps with the new app as best they can. 

However, the quality of the sound is the priority for me and I guess most people. It can't be that what sonos thinks sounds great doesn't match what I think sounds great. I adore the sound of the bass on the five and the beam/mini sub is equally impressive. However, their flagship home theatre setup of arc and big sub (with surrounds) sounds like a muddy mess. Maybe I just prefer the punchy bass of the mini sub over the booming sub, but again sonos have limited my options by not allowing 2 minis joined to one home theatre setup.

Maybe I have work to do with placement and tuning but that doesn't explain why it sounded fine before.

Maybe something is faulty. Time to call the help desk and hope they do more that run me through the standard scripts.

Anyways, apologies for the rant. It's just frustrating.