It would appear that this will be the last year of Sonos. Between the cancer of their lousy 5.0 app their anti-customer policy of outright refusing to fix it, their market lead will almost certainly be gone by X-mas. Look at the list of companies currently selling directly competitive products and note that nearly every one of them has vastly greater name recognition and audio experience than Sonos:
And note that DTS, the audio granddaddy of them all has gone all-in, along with Qualcomm, the true granddaddy of wireless audio. The audio giants have released the open standards Allplay and Play-Fi, allowing consumers to mix/match their WiFi audio brands/products as easily as we do with other WiFi devices.
Today Sonos has a significant edge over every one of these offerings, but will they still have it 3 months from now? There will surely be a half-dozen more brands announced within the next 60 days and within the next 6 months at least one of them will get their software right. What are the chances that it will be Sonos?
Panasonic and Altec Lansing have already announced products. What's going to happen when Sony, Logitech, JBL, and Harman Kardon enter the market? What about Beats, with their $3 Billion cash infusion from Apple? One or more of these companies is going to find the right mix of quality, price, functionality and style. Meanwhile the obscure underdog Sonos will likely continue to battle against their customers until there is nothing left to fight over.
Farewell Sonos, we hardly knew you.
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Sonos is not going to disappear due to not being on board with Hi-Rez. Hi-Rez/High Fidelity is a small subset of the market. However, Sonos needs to be mindful that they will be facing much stiffer competition across the spectrum of potential offerings than they have in the past. Obviously, that is why they came out w/ the Play 1's (i..e., to fend off lower priced alternatives).
Going forward, they will lose market share, and that is to be expected with increased competition. Hopefully, they'll continue to improve their product and price it accordingly. If not, some customers will drop out and some potential customers will remain potential customers. That's reality.
Personally, I'd like to see them make it easier/less expensive to stream to existing speakers (that are of higher quality than Sonos' speakers) and/or produce some "higher end" Sonos' speakers. Sonos' has to figure out the tradeoffs between market share and losing out on sales of their own speakers. I'm assuming they want to remain mass-market and not turn into a niche "high-end" retailer.
If you are happy with Sonos, good for you. I'm fine with Sonos for now, going forward, it will depend upon how they compare to new competitors.
Why is it that every time someone disagrees, and gives perfectly factual analysis of that disagreement, they are labeled as some sort of Sonos shill or stakeholder? You stated that Sonos will "suffer the consequences" of not supporting Hi-Res. I quite factually pointed out that this prediction has been made for 10 years, and it has not stifled Sonos sales one iota, and in addition, the competitors who did/do offer Hi-Res have so far failed miserably or are so small as to be negligible to the market (including Bluesound).
That is not being defensive, that is being factual.
That is not being defensive, that is being factual.
Um, well, because you set-up straw man arguments. For example, the landscape in 2014 is a bit different than in 2004. It's easy to claim that Bluesound is marginal, since they are just launching. They may remain marginal, they many not.
Hi-Rez is not going to kill off Sonos. It will have an impact at the margin though. Sonos has more to worry about from competitors who will focus on the larger market segment that doesn't base decisions on Hi-Rez, but rather on ease of operation and compatibility with various equipment (i.e., open-source) and can price products competitively. Why do you have such a hard time admitting that there are more players in this market, and that is a good thing as competition makes it less likely that Sonos will rest on its laurels?
You can have the last word....
Hi-Rez is not going to kill off Sonos. It will have an impact at the margin though. Sonos has more to worry about from competitors who will focus on the larger market segment that doesn't base decisions on Hi-Rez, but rather on ease of operation and compatibility with various equipment (i.e., open-source) and can price products competitively. Why do you have such a hard time admitting that there are more players in this market, and that is a good thing as competition makes it less likely that Sonos will rest on its laurels?
You can have the last word....
The landscape for Hi-res is no more different today than it was in 2004. And it's not like people predicted the imminent demise of Sonos due to lack of Hi-Res just back then, it is an ongoing theme, right up until today. And still Hi-Res has yet to capture any significant portion of the market. But don't worry, there's always next year!! Hi-res is the FUTURE!!!! (which was said in 2004, and 2005, and 2006 . . . and 2012, and 2013 . . . ).
And Bluesound was launched in Feb 2013. Hardly a newcomer.
Use ignore user feature, makes your browsing experience much more enjoyable (unfortunately you still see quotes from the trolls in other user responses)
Um, well, because you set-up straw man arguments.
LOL...thanks. The other party to the conversation can't seem to get that it's not about Hi-Rez, it's about the changing dynamics in the marketplace for the delivery of digital music (e.g., streaming music), regardless of resolution. It is about being responsive to consumer demands and increased competition, especially from providers who use open-source technology as opposed to proprietary technology.
Competition is great. If Sonos is the best solution for my needs, great. If not, I'll give my business to the company that bests meets my needs.
Competition is great. If Sonos is the best solution for my needs, great. If not, I'll give my business to the company that bests meets my needs.
Lol! Your first post in this thread actually was all about Hi-Rez:
Also, IMHO, Sonos will drop the price/replace the connect/connect amp going forward to fend off competitors.
Competition is good.
Nothing about "changing dynamics in the marketplace for the delivery of digital music (e.g., streaming music), regardless of resolution" in that entire post. It was all about Hi-Rez and how many customers Sonos is going to lose to competitors because of Hi-Rez. So forgive me if I responded to what you actually posted.
Nothing about "changing dynamics in the marketplace for the delivery of digital music (e.g., streaming music), regardless of resolution" in that entire post. It was all about Hi-Rez and how many customers Sonos is going to lose to competitors because of Hi-Rez. So forgive me if I responded to what you actually posted.
"Some"....does not mean all, many or most.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate". As such, I shall not be able to be enlightened by your posts in the future.
Good-bye.
Im new SONOS customer, whilst not up with the techy side, i consider myself pretty savvy when it come to consumer purchasing.
I have Bose headphones, love them. So no surprise i looked at Bose systems. I can afford them so no issue there, but just felt that after trialling and auditioning, that SONOS has the edge. The beauty for me was the simplicity at every level. Maybe this is why people think SONOS can be beaten, but i know only too well that building in simplicity is one of the hardest things to do.
As for innovation and new products etc. Well yes, you have to keep moving forward to stay still these days, but it seems that SONOS does this in a silent, simple and non fussed way. Even the moderators comments to this post are relaxed. I like that. No need to reinvent the wheel or keep changing the look every 3 months if the product just works.
Its easy to be a keyboard jockey these days. Sometimes i wonder why firms even have a forum when posts like this appear. But at the end of the day the only important thing is in the enjoyment you get from the products. True, I'm biassed. Why would i buy other systems now when I've started down the SONOS road, but truth is i could easily change but have no desire too. I work away and need to know the system operates flawlessly at home. Nowt worse that a Skype late at night to say they can't get it working, touch wood that has never happened so far.
Keep up the good work.
(All i need now is a remote way of accessing the home hifi but I'm sure that will come soon enough.)
I have Bose headphones, love them. So no surprise i looked at Bose systems. I can afford them so no issue there, but just felt that after trialling and auditioning, that SONOS has the edge. The beauty for me was the simplicity at every level. Maybe this is why people think SONOS can be beaten, but i know only too well that building in simplicity is one of the hardest things to do.
As for innovation and new products etc. Well yes, you have to keep moving forward to stay still these days, but it seems that SONOS does this in a silent, simple and non fussed way. Even the moderators comments to this post are relaxed. I like that. No need to reinvent the wheel or keep changing the look every 3 months if the product just works.
Its easy to be a keyboard jockey these days. Sometimes i wonder why firms even have a forum when posts like this appear. But at the end of the day the only important thing is in the enjoyment you get from the products. True, I'm biassed. Why would i buy other systems now when I've started down the SONOS road, but truth is i could easily change but have no desire too. I work away and need to know the system operates flawlessly at home. Nowt worse that a Skype late at night to say they can't get it working, touch wood that has never happened so far.
Keep up the good work.
(All i need now is a remote way of accessing the home hifi but I'm sure that will come soon enough.)
Sonos is "easy". I grabbed some Play 1's as they were an inexpensive and easy solution for my needs. However, the marketplace is rapidly changing. For quite awhile, Sonos pretty much was the only game in town (Squeezebox was not a direct competitor and IIRC, Niles Audio was more expensive and/or relied more on hardwiring). Some Sonos users (check the forums) are rather annoyed due to lack of full compatibility with Spotify. Spotify blamed Sonos, Sonos blamed Spotify. However, the interesting part of this dispute/issue revolves around the area that may become an issue for Sonos going forward: Proprietary technology vs open-source. Think Apple IOS vs Windows/Android. If you wanted an Apple product, you bought it from Apple. If you wanted Windows or Android, you could choose from numerous suppliers. When you are the only game in town, you can charge a premium for proprietary technology. When alternative non-proprietary solutions become available, they often affect the ability to extract a premium from customers. In addition, additional market entrants may enter using their own proprietary tech.
IMO, competition is great for consumers and I don't have a dog in this fight. For now, I'm happy w/ Sonos. However, that is partly due to the fact that temporary living arrangements preclude setting up my complete audio system. When I relocate, I'll want to easily stream digital music to my speakers, and my guess is that Sonos will either have dropped the price of the connect system and/or that there will be more alternatives. If Sonos is the best option, great, if not, they lose a customer.
For the time being, Sonos is "tried and true" and they do provide a very painless entry into streaming music to numerous locations.
Glad you are enjoying your Sonos products.
IMO, competition is great for consumers and I don't have a dog in this fight. For now, I'm happy w/ Sonos. However, that is partly due to the fact that temporary living arrangements preclude setting up my complete audio system. When I relocate, I'll want to easily stream digital music to my speakers, and my guess is that Sonos will either have dropped the price of the connect system and/or that there will be more alternatives. If Sonos is the best option, great, if not, they lose a customer.
For the time being, Sonos is "tried and true" and they do provide a very painless entry into streaming music to numerous locations.
Glad you are enjoying your Sonos products.
I think Bluesound is the only current competitor for Sonos. They were just voted tops in the most recent What Hifi Magazine http://www.whathifi.com/bluesound/node/review
In any case I'm perfectly content with Sonos in the areas of my home where 16/44 is adequate, in the big system I have Auralic and Devialet to handle HiRes files..
In any case I'm perfectly content with Sonos in the areas of my home where 16/44 is adequate, in the big system I have Auralic and Devialet to handle HiRes files..
I agree entirely with the first sentence. I am not sure that music listeners care about the latter part of the second - as long as the kit plays music reliably and of the desired quality. The number of people that decide music systems on the basis of open source is probably even smaller than those that do this on being carried away by the hires gimmick.
Unfortunately, I have to agree.
I was at a weekend conference recently where around 99% of the attendees were Open Source users and advocates, including authors of well known open source apps and distros (Redhat, Ubuntu, SuSE and Crunchbang were represented), as well as Open Source podcasts (HPR, LUGRadio, Linux Outlaws, TDTRS).
We had several debates on the status of Open Source software usage. The overriding opinion is that whilst we used FOSS because we cared, most people don't care. People (in general) will not use FOSS because they care about freedom, openness, etc. They will use it because it gives them specific benefits over using equivalent proprietary software.
Of course FOSS inherently has benefits over proprietary software, such as the fact you can get proper support from it, from a variety of sources; you can directly make (or sponsor) changes to software yourself rather than hoping the vendor will do them; even old versions of software can continue to be used and supported so you are not at the vendor's whim to discontinue them.
But these are meaningless to most people who take a very short term view of software.
Whatever the reason, Open Source is something that isn't on the radar for the vast majority of people, despite that fact that many people actually use more Open Source stuff (without knowing) than they do proprietary software. Open Source is simply not something you can sell to consumers.
Cheers,
Keith
The last multi-room streaming system that touted itself as Open Source ultimately failed, and a major part of that was the unreliable software which required almost nightly changes in order to be even the least bit stable. I use Open Source software all the time, but Open Source does not mean automatic reliability or quality any more than private software development. In fact, given the relatively unique skillset needed for developing audio applications, the scarcity of talent often means, as was the case with Squeeze, that the resulting software leaves much to be desired.
Oh well.
Is the market that Sonos competed in growing? Probably - what even in the recession yes. Will the market provide suitable revenues for multiple providers? Yes again.
Therefore it is likely that Sonos will continue to grow. It is possible that they may lose % age market share due to an aggressively growing uber competitor. But gross sales will likely still grow.
See the TV market, last time I looked there are a few manufacturers of TVs and they all seem to survive.
I would go so far as to say it is probable that they will lose %age market share as any company with a high %age market share in any market finds out eventually.
Hi-Res - most end users can't be bothered.If you really think it is important then ask your wife/husband if they care - they probably don't. Do a wide cross section of you colleagues or friends care? Nope, nor will they.
Open-Source: so what. Ask questions as per Hi-Res and you will find that you are probably a geek/nerd (many of us are).
In general the bulk market cares what it looks like, what other people tell them about their experiences with it. If they can afford it. And ultimately if it works for them.
Sonos wins because of the SonosNet not despite it. It seems a bit of funny thing, why not just connect to WiFi - well when it works they don't ask questions. Not many people want to manage bandwidth on WiFi networks or go around with a WiFi sniffer. Or have to readjust their WiFi channel because a neighbour just bought a router with a conflicting channel.
They have done some work to allow users options but when they have difficulties due to WiFi issues is this a Sonos issue. These users are likely to be directed to install a boost/bridge. Sonos cannot be responsible for others networks.
I have some 10-year old Sonos boxes, they still work, they still play music, they still work with the latest software versions, tablets, phones etc. I have had a lot of new functionality for free. Is this likely to occur with open-source WiFi linked kit where the only thing the manufacturer has interest in is shifting boxes.
Yes competitors are coming - it is called being in business. I am sure Sonos are aware of this.
DG
PS. As for the guardian article - will Sonos have someone looking at Hi-Res, the mechanics of streaming it, the customer demand, the likely cost of implementation, the opportunity of this feature over others for at least some of their working time. Yes of course. And video. And HiRes 2, And a high value range, and a budget range. Yes. Will they implement everything. No.
Is the market that Sonos competed in growing? Probably - what even in the recession yes. Will the market provide suitable revenues for multiple providers? Yes again.
Therefore it is likely that Sonos will continue to grow. It is possible that they may lose % age market share due to an aggressively growing uber competitor. But gross sales will likely still grow.
See the TV market, last time I looked there are a few manufacturers of TVs and they all seem to survive.
I would go so far as to say it is probable that they will lose %age market share as any company with a high %age market share in any market finds out eventually.
Hi-Res - most end users can't be bothered.If you really think it is important then ask your wife/husband if they care - they probably don't. Do a wide cross section of you colleagues or friends care? Nope, nor will they.
Open-Source: so what. Ask questions as per Hi-Res and you will find that you are probably a geek/nerd (many of us are).
In general the bulk market cares what it looks like, what other people tell them about their experiences with it. If they can afford it. And ultimately if it works for them.
Sonos wins because of the SonosNet not despite it. It seems a bit of funny thing, why not just connect to WiFi - well when it works they don't ask questions. Not many people want to manage bandwidth on WiFi networks or go around with a WiFi sniffer. Or have to readjust their WiFi channel because a neighbour just bought a router with a conflicting channel.
They have done some work to allow users options but when they have difficulties due to WiFi issues is this a Sonos issue. These users are likely to be directed to install a boost/bridge. Sonos cannot be responsible for others networks.
I have some 10-year old Sonos boxes, they still work, they still play music, they still work with the latest software versions, tablets, phones etc. I have had a lot of new functionality for free. Is this likely to occur with open-source WiFi linked kit where the only thing the manufacturer has interest in is shifting boxes.
Yes competitors are coming - it is called being in business. I am sure Sonos are aware of this.
DG
PS. As for the guardian article - will Sonos have someone looking at Hi-Res, the mechanics of streaming it, the customer demand, the likely cost of implementation, the opportunity of this feature over others for at least some of their working time. Yes of course. And video. And HiRes 2, And a high value range, and a budget range. Yes. Will they implement everything. No.
Not convinced we'll still be saying that in 5 years time, a lot of TV manufacturers are seriously struggling at the moment.
Although some of the manufacturers are a little too large to fit the model, the TV market approaches "perfect capitalism" from an Economics 101 standpoint. The companies operate at the point of starvation and the customer enjoys the lowest price.
Almost zero differentiation with TVs these days. I just call em panels, a mature commodity market; unsure that 4K will change that. I'd put mass market audio in that category also.
Streaming / whole house audio not quite there yet, maybe never.
Streaming / whole house audio not quite there yet, maybe never.
Some wil exit for sure. Just as many have exited the multi-room streaming market. All markets have new entrants, unsuccessful operators and operators whose market share changes.
It is even possible for the major market leader to mess up: see Nokia for details.
It is even possible for the major market leader to mess up: see Nokia for details.
I don't think they're even doing that well from what I can see...
In any case I'm perfectly content with Sonos in the areas of my home where 16/44 is adequate, in the big system I have Auralic and Devialet to handle HiRes files..
I was at a Best Buy yesterday and the rep for Polk Audio/Definitive Technology was there so I was able to get a much better demo and informed discussion than I would have from the Best Buy staff. I spent a good hour testing the Definitive Technology system and the rep even made some calls back to the home office to field technical questions he didn't know the answer to.
I came away very impressed and would have to disagree that Bluesound is the only real competitor to Sonos. I think Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, and soon Martin Logan, are ready to compete seriously in this space.
Today Sonos has a significant edge over every one of these offerings, but will they still have it 3 months from now? There will surely be a half-dozen more brands announced within the next 60 days and within the next 6 months at least one of them will get their software right. What are the chances that it will be Sonos?
Farewell Sonos, we hardly knew you.
So, almost a year later, and guess who is still way out ahead of the pack? 😃
The best thing about the internet is the same as what my father told me was the best reason to get a tattoo: "So you can look at it later and remember what an ***hole you were when you were younger."
And what's more the OP hasn't revisited since last October either. Bit of a drive-by methinks.
Perhaps he worked for Simple Audio 😃
It is very very rare to correctly call the last year of any product in advance, it can be done only after the event.
So many examples - BlackBerry and MP3 players are recent examples in the sphere of related tech.
So many examples - BlackBerry and MP3 players are recent examples in the sphere of related tech.
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