Moving to another apartment and selling my old stereo equipment I now have spare 2 x play 1 and 1 x play 5 on hands that were before used for different rooms. Due to convenience factor I would like to move one of these to my main listening area but i still question which way to go. Either i add another Play 5 or purchase a Sub to go with Play 1s. Having small kids my listening volume is normally quite low.
Reading this forum some suggest that the sound from play 5s would give me fuller sound but bass from the Sub would be much better, while others seem to think play 1s do sound better on their own when Sub comes into the picture. I understand the decision would always be subjective but would still like to hear some advice.
Thanks
Tomaz
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Userlevel 3
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That all depends where tomaztwo wants to go at what time and at what cost.
All alternatives are not really cheap, some are cheaper than others, some are better upgradeable, all have caveats (e.g. need to cable AMP for surround, Playbar not having DTS, Sub from Sonos or 3rd party). The only thing we can do is work out options. The decision is up to tomaztwo.
Btw: active 3rd party, cabled subwoofers can be really cost effective. They start at 100€/$ already.
All alternatives are not really cheap, some are cheaper than others, some are better upgradeable, all have caveats (e.g. need to cable AMP for surround, Playbar not having DTS, Sub from Sonos or 3rd party). The only thing we can do is work out options. The decision is up to tomaztwo.
Btw: active 3rd party, cabled subwoofers can be really cost effective. They start at 100€/$ already.
What inputs? Do you mean on the AMP itself? That would however give me a delay that i know from Play 5, correct? Its not too annoying, but noticeable.
Userlevel 3
+1
Possibly yes. I have no Amp, so I don't know for sure.
The Connect Amp has line in, the same type as the 5 does. Results are identical with respect to the delay.
For the price of a Soundbar, a Sub and 2xPlay1 you can get a VERY nice 7.1 receiver AND a 7.1 (or 5.1) speaker set. You certainly could even add a Sonos Connect (not an AMP) and integrate that 7.1 system into your Sonos network. The only caveat is that the receiver needs to be on for Sonos sound (obviously).
I have an existing Receiver connected to my TV and a 5.1 speaker setup that I use for TV's and Movies. I also have two Play 1's in the room to play "casual" music.
I was considering replacing it all with a Playbar and a Sub plus my two existing Play 1's, but the expensive Sonos Connect seems cheap compared. But I still think it is extremely expensive to what it does.
Userlevel 3
+1
I completely agree and have said that numerous times here. Nevertheless, you get Sonos integrated 5.1 (music) sound at a pricepoint of 349$ and not 1796$. And your existing receiver possibly supports DTS. And you are free to use your Play1s in other rooms.
Just checked some forum favourites and i was surprised that i can get Monitor Audio BX2's here for 230 EUR only. Thats crazy cheep and with connect AMP even less than Play 5 pair. Is difference in bass really so obvious since according to specs they go down to 42 Hz, while Sub itself "only" to 34 Hz?
Yes it is obvious, but that doesn't rule out the BX2 solution. You will get a good all round sound with a good impression of bass. With the Sub, you will also feel the bass. If you don't need that bass power, the Connect Amp + BX2 is a very decent music set up.
Dali Zensor 3 is another good all round option. With a little lighter bass, so is the Zensor 1.
PS: You can also add a third party Sub to Connect Amp for a lot less than Sonos Sub, but I have little experience of these to suggest any.
Dali Zensor 3 is another good all round option. With a little lighter bass, so is the Zensor 1.
PS: You can also add a third party Sub to Connect Amp for a lot less than Sonos Sub, but I have little experience of these to suggest any.
Many thanks! I really appreciate your efforts. Somehow Sub would be easiest to integrate in my situation rather than bigger stereo speakers. I just hope Play1s can at least come close to mids of mentioned speakers.
Once they integrate with the Sub, they will be as good once properly placed with the same care you would use to place any good stand mounted speaker. Since they won't need to produce bass, they can be in free space to allow all the mids to be well delivered.
Ideally, place the Sub approximately between the two so that the mono effect of the Sub bass isn't an issue.
Any special instructions for placement other then obvious? Sonos manual has none.
Ideally, place the Sub approximately between the two so that the mono effect of the Sub bass isn't an issue.
Sadly this might not be possible. Is there any info from Sonos at what frequency crossover is made when pairing with Play 1? Is it well above 80HZ?
Sadly this might not be possible. Is there any info from Sonos at what frequency crossover is made when pairing with Play 1? Is it well above 80HZ?
No, nothing more than how you would place any decent speaker. If on a shelf, close to the front edge. Tweeters at ear height in listening position.
No, there isn't any cross over info. But going by how they advise crossovers for the Connect Amp, my guess is 110-120 hz.
Userlevel 3
+1
As the human ear is not very good in locating low frequencies (other than high frequencies, in my opinion it doesn't matter, where the sub is located (as long as it is not completely obstructed) and certainly does not have to be between the higher frequency speakers.
Below 80hz is where this is generally found to be the case, which, I suspect is why the crossover question was asked. To what extent localisation capability correlates to the frequency rises beyond 80hz, I do not know.
Possibly true for steady state, but I found that putting the SUB behind the couch was not a good idea. It could be transients which gave the game away.
Userlevel 3
+1
Well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization#Evaluation_for_low_frequencies "sounds" (no pun intended 😃 ) quite good for low frequencies and "mono".
For what would be a relatively small sweet spot for getting good stereo imaging from a play 1 pair, I think the Sub placement options narrow down. Exact centre between the two speakers isn't critical, but off to one side of both speakers doesn't sound right. This based on my Connect Amp set up placement experiments, crossed over at 110 hz - close to where I suspect the play 1s are crossed over.
I found some measurements on below page where frequency response of Sub was measured as 34 to 96 Hz ±3 dB so crossover could be lower after all :
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-sonos-sub-page-2
But, yes, the reason of asking was the fact that i can not position Sub perfectlly between speakers.
Good find - you could be right with that.
Additionally as claimed and measured here "The -3 dB bass response of the Play:1 is 88 Hz" :
http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/ss/Sonos-Play1-Measurements.htm
so crossover could be somwhere around 90hz which is good news
Userlevel 3
+1
Well, I have my Sub positioned on the left side of the room (seen from my Playbar, which is in the middle) - kind of at the same axis as my left Play5 (grouped left surround) and I cannot really locate the Sub - no matter at what frequency the crossover really is. Hz numbers only help so far. Listening is a subjective experience. For me / my setup, placement of a Sonos Sub does not matter, as the sound does come from all four corners of my room (kind of).
I cannot speak for 2xPlay1 and Sub. It could be, that the bass is more important there with a 2 speaker configuration.
I cannot speak for 2xPlay1 and Sub. It could be, that the bass is more important there with a 2 speaker configuration.
I cannot speak for 2xPlay1 and Sub. It could be, that the bass is more important there with a 2 speaker configuration.
I think your four corner set up is why it matters less. Even for a 2 speaker set up, it may not matter as much as one moves away from the stereo listening sweet spot.
PS:If stereo imaging is desired, and there isn't a good place to position the Sub, my suggestion would be to start with just the play 1 pair. The sound quality from just that isn't very far behind a Connect Amp + budget speaker ( BX2 or Zensor) set up. The Sub can be added later on, and the best way is to buy it on returnable basis to be sure that it works fine in places where you are able to place it.
I have had a Play:1 pair + Sub since December in my main living room, using it for TV and music (TV input via a Connect that I had spare - there's a thread on this in the Speakers section if anyone wants to know more).
The Sub is currently located about 3 feet to the right of the P1 pair, and to my ears (or brain), the placement is noticeable, particularly at higher Sub volumes. Of course, this might just be a perceived effect because I know the Sub is there, but it certainly feels real. For reference, the P1's are approx 4 feet apart, and the main listening position is approx 7-8 feet away - not ideal I know, but a real world compromise)
Oddly, when I tried the Sub in a completely different part of the room, way over to the left, the placement wasn't so obvious. (Unfortunately that location causes the wooden floor to buzz and shelves to rattle, so I can't leave it there.) I plan to try it in the corner behind the TV, though it's a shame to hide it away, and the sound might be too intense with it tucked tight in a corner.
The Sub is currently located about 3 feet to the right of the P1 pair, and to my ears (or brain), the placement is noticeable, particularly at higher Sub volumes. Of course, this might just be a perceived effect because I know the Sub is there, but it certainly feels real. For reference, the P1's are approx 4 feet apart, and the main listening position is approx 7-8 feet away - not ideal I know, but a real world compromise)
Oddly, when I tried the Sub in a completely different part of the room, way over to the left, the placement wasn't so obvious. (Unfortunately that location causes the wooden floor to buzz and shelves to rattle, so I can't leave it there.) I plan to try it in the corner behind the TV, though it's a shame to hide it away, and the sound might be too intense with it tucked tight in a corner.
I would like to restart this discussion considering the new PLAY:5 (2nd generation).
I have one room with two PLAY:1 and a SUB and another room with a single PLAY:5. Believe me - I like it more listening to music with the single(!) PLAY:5 than with two PLAY:1s and the SUB.
The bass of the new PLAY:5 is almost deep than the bass of the SUB, but it's faster, clearer and more precise. So I really consider to replace my two PLAY:1s and the SUB with two PLAY:5 of the new generation. It's even cheaper. And I have two more inputs for external devices!
I have one room with two PLAY:1 and a SUB and another room with a single PLAY:5. Believe me - I like it more listening to music with the single(!) PLAY:5 than with two PLAY:1s and the SUB.
The bass of the new PLAY:5 is almost deep than the bass of the SUB, but it's faster, clearer and more precise. So I really consider to replace my two PLAY:1s and the SUB with two PLAY:5 of the new generation. It's even cheaper. And I have two more inputs for external devices!
There are pros/cons on both sides, and the new play 5 will make this a more difficult choice than before.
If I was starting with a clean slate and I had enough room to provide good placement for the new 5 units, I would pick a pair of those over a 1 pair + Sub. I also expect their feature of providing a choice of stereo imaging based on horizontal v vertical placement to be useful to better accommodate different room types. And if line in was a must, 5 is no brainer of course.
If I was starting with a clean slate and I had enough room to provide good placement for the new 5 units, I would pick a pair of those over a 1 pair + Sub. I also expect their feature of providing a choice of stereo imaging based on horizontal v vertical placement to be useful to better accommodate different room types. And if line in was a must, 5 is no brainer of course.
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