Sonos Move, sync issue, music only

Is MOVE the only SONOS product on your network?

After one of these events, submit a diagnostic. SONOS staff can review and comment.

Move is my only Sonos device.  I plan on submitting the log to support but was checking to see if users had any similar experiences.  Lots of threads on “out of sync” but as it relates to watch TV.  

SONOS is designed to maintain time alignment of SONOS players when “Grouped” to play the same music. In this mode of operation SONOS has control of everything. This is not easy technology and SONOS has a number of patents in the area. In your system of various manufacturers, there is no way to guarantee synchronization.

In a previous era one could have two CD players, each playing a copy of the same disc, start them both at the same instant and by the end of the first track there would be an obvious time skew. This is similar to your situation where Spotify is sending music to multiple players that have no means of synchronizing with each other. Spotify can send data to all of the units simultaneously, but if one unit works through its block of data before the rest of the units are ready for the next block, there is no easy choice for recovery.

buzz, thanks.

Your CD analogy makes sense.

Is this a wireless issue or an issue with the way Apple AX vs Sonos vs Denon handle packets?

I was planning on getting a few more Sonos Moves to fill some gaps (front porch, BBQ area, back porch and garage) but I think I better hardwire those areas to something more traditional.  I bought the Sonos to try as Apple had discontinued the AX.  The AX had been reliable but maybe that is because it is in the apple ecosystem and they had greater control.  Although it doesn’t explain why the Denon and AX always stay in sync.

I don’t know exactly how the Spotify App sends music to a bunch of players. The Spotify App is an odd sort of duck because it is aware of SONOS units and how to handle them. I don’t know if this awareness extends to Denon and the AX.

Which network client were you monitoring above?

I can’t explain why the Denon and AX seem to stay in sync, likely it is a fortunate accident. It is possible that some WiFi interference messes with things. The SONOS diagnostic will log communication difficulties that MOVE encounters.

In the case of multiple SONOS units, in addition to buffering enough data to ride through brief communication issues, the units are also sharing clock information in order to keep units tightly synchronized. You can ‘pair’ SONOS units (perhaps two MOVE’s) into a L/R ‘Room’. Synchronization must be very tight or the left/right image will flop around. You can have multiple pairs in a large Group of SONOS players that will remain time aligned with in a millisecond or two for extended periods. If the communication environment, wired or wireless, is difficult and a player’s buffer is emptied, the player will mute until more data arrives. Extended data starvation can result in other actions, depending on the music source.

buzz,  thanks for the time.

Spotify on mini mac → Airfoil → (3 wireless): Denon, Airport Express (to a another amp) and Sonos

                                         Wired→ Denon 

                                         Wired→ McIntosh

Not certain that answered the “Network Client”.

I sent the log to support and they confirmed that “interference” might be an issue.  Plan is to change the channel for 5G.  If that doesn’t work then move Sonos Move far enough away to for 2.4G.

I think ‘pairing’ would cause all Sonos to go out of sync with the wired and other wireless units.  Would it be better to leave them ‘unpaired’ in case the other locations don’t have interference issue?

By “Network Client” I mean: which device has the IP address of 192.168.1.22?

Let’s make sure that we are sharing a common ‘lingo’. I think that I mislead you somewhat with that “pair” comment. A more proper description would have been “’bonded’ (a SONOS term) as a stereo pair”. This is different from ‘pairing’ Bluetooth units with each other. In your case with only one SONOS unit, you cannot build a stereo pair of SONOS units.

Expanding on my “clock” comment a little: The music is sampled at 44.1Khz. Obviously we should play at 44.1Khz. What if the playback device is running a little slow and we are actually playing at 44.09Khz? On human terms, the slight change in pitch and tempo is insignificant, but if we have three playback devices sharing the same data stream while running at different clock rates, eventually two of the clients will run out of data (at different times). In your case it seems that MOVE runs out first. If the SPOTIFY client is very capable, it might be able to send independent streams to each client, but it cannot change the clock rate of any unit. In the SONOS ecosystem SONOS players share their clock information and can synchronize with each other. This is why SONOS units can play together all day and through the night while remaining time aligned.

192.168.1.22 is the Sonos Move.

Regarding the clock/sampling point.  We tend to run the music in the background like a department store...runs most of the waking hours.  All the devices (except Sonos Move) keep pace all day.

When the issue happens, your hear a click on the Sonos Move then its a fraction of a second out of sync.  I’ve never let it run longer so I don’t know if it get further behind over time or not.

I changed the channels and lowered the 2.4Ghz signal to force Sonos to 5Ghz to see what happens.  If it fails again I will disconnect anything on the patio that might be causing interference (fan, BBQ, camera) and then see what happens.  If neither solve the issue I’ll move Sonos into the house next to the router and test again.

I’ll report back on the results.

Thanks again.

I’d also, honestly, be tempted to power down that Move completely, wait a minute or two, then power it back up, to force a reload of the OS on it. 

Airgetlam, will do.