Location mandatory

@controlav 

So turning on location at setup is simply a mechanism to give permission (rather than eg a tickbox saying ‘I accept that the Sonos app will scan for Bluetooth and wi-fi and that those operations will enable my location to be discovered)? 

So of course turning off location after setup doesn’t prevent scanning, meaning, again, location is not actually needed for the service to work.

But did they do it that way because it’s easier than a tickbox or another reason - like they want to see and use your location anyway?
And presumably a Google or Microsoft install would require the same.

So Apple, Google, Microsoft or Sonos don’t actually need to know your location - it’s only there if they happen to want to look for it.

But do they? They should guarantee not to.

@buzz 

Yes I operate in a similar way.

The conveniences you mention could be achieved by allowing you to simply select your location from a list.
Again, tracking your actual location isn’t necessary for that.

At this point our data is simply a resource that can be sold or rented. Everyone attempts to collect as much as possible. Search engines share lots of data. Amazon collects and shares lots of data. If you search for a product, then email a link to a friend, Amazon tags that link with your search. If your friend shares the link, the chain continues. I notice that Office emails that include links, have long chains of referrals attached to those links. Browsers and email clients tend to hide these chains.

In their Privacy Statement, Sonos says:

How We May Share Personal Information

Sonos does not and will not sell personal information about our customers.
 

There are of course some caveats, but the “need” to obtain some location data is explained in that Statement. 

You misunderstand: the permission is given only for as long as the option is enabled, so once you have set it up, flip the switch and the permission is gone: the app cannot use then use Bluetooth or wifi scan. (And by wifi scan I mean search for other wifi networks - obviously the app wont work without access to the network the phone is connected to).

(This is true for iOS, no clue about Android: Google obviously have a vested interest in gathering as much data as they can about you).

@controlav 

But will it still be able to connect to your speaker using the network it already knows about?

Mine doesn’t do Bluetooth but same for Bluetooth?

Yes, regular network is covered by the “Local Network” privilege which is essential for Sonos. There is also a special “network broadcast” privilege that apps like Sonos and mine require, which requires special permission from Apple. The user does not see this one, but it is necessary to find local devices on the network.

If Bluetooth is disabled then the app cannot make any Bluetooth calls. Sonos use this during setup for newer devices, and for the portable speakers for playback of course.

Worth noting that in addition to location being necessary for determining what music service are available in your location, it’s also need for voice services.  Sonos is not licensed for all three voice assistants they offer in every location in the world.  That license could be the agreements with Amazon or Google or with the local government.

@melvimbe

How does that work?

eg I use Alexa - but I don’t tell it to play on Sonos I tell it to play from Spotify - or maybe it knows now and I don’t have to actually say that and it plays from Spotify automatically via wifi. The point is I understand that Spotify has to work with Alexa and also with Sonos. My understanding is that in that chain Sonos has the contract and technical connection with Sonos not Amazon and Alexa. Spotify also has the contract and technical connection with Alexa. So a contract between Amazon and Sonos is not necessary because Sonos deals with the music services not the voice assistant services.

My soundbar (which I bought primarily for my TV display which has no speakers) doesn’t have Bluetooth (I was told by Sonos that they would ‘never’ add bluetooth because of the sound quality compared to wi fi) but I understand that with Bluetooth the connection is different.
I can’t pay just any old content from my Macbook laptop via wifi through my Sonos soundbar - it has to be from a music service Sonos recognises or from my iTunes music library (so at least I can play music I have created that way).
Now if I had bluetooth I guess I could tell Siri to play a track from my music library - but again why would Sonos need a contract with Apple re Siri?

Bluetooth works as a completely agnostic connection unlike the wifi connection. Meaning it will simply relay anything the computer is playing - no contracts required.

I always wished my soundbar did have Bluetooth then I could play laptop audio - especially You Tube, wirelessly. I can’t do that right now. Instead I connect to my hi-fi system for that.

@nik9669a 

You mean this? 
“We may also share limited location information (i.e. an IP address and anonymised ID) with some of our third-party radio content partners who may run ads on their stations.”

I don’t want advertisers to get my IP address thanks.
And they can link that to an identity in other ways.

But the key point is I do not trust any of these companies with my personal information - and for good reason.
Tech companies have time and time again shown a complete disregard for fundamental privacy rights no matter their stated policies or the content of their PR on the subject.
The laws are there but are not strong enough and those that are there are not enforced rigorously enough nor carry a severe enough penalty to actually deter.

This is a fundamental question of freedom and control. Of personal sovereignty. Any concession to surveillance capitalism by any of us should be on a strictly necessary basis only.