End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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J
Userlevel 6
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You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

You missed out a vital point, does this mean the legacy and modern will be interoperable? Or completely seperate? I am fine with my legacy speakers not getting updates, but I want my modern speakers to get updates and new features. I then EXEPCT to be still able to group music between legacy and modern.

This is the main issue on the table!  I have 26 SONOS devices, 16 of which are “legacy”. If you tell me I have to separate them out, then you gave failed in your mission, and why I purchased $10k of equipment from you… to have Whole House Audio.  

@David_366 and @morgan4x4, these legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow.  

 

 

With all due respect Ryan, and we know you are trying your hardest ….


But it’s time now for Patrick to stand up, and put out a definitive announcement on here, as to what is going to happen.

In that announcement, there are two basic options, one of which will be retracting the crazy ill thought out idea of legacy, and then suggest a plan to keep all of the legacy equipment fully operational (with no loss of current functionality), and hence a chance of keep customers.

The other option, will be to continue with the legacy plans, wave goodbye to the existing 37% of repeat customers (as there is no way they will buy any more equipment), and totally destroy future sales to new customers, as they will rapidly be aware of the bad press, Its’ already on the BBC here in the UK.

Easy.

 

A stand alone box of chips with an ethernet cable, like a raspberry pi, could have as much memory as NASA, a wifi chip, like IKEA sonos speakers, and ethernet in/out sockets to connect between router and 'legacy' equipment. This wee box could sort the memory/processing needs for 50 quid, or put a sonos badge on it and charge 200! !LOL LOL lol ha ha ha .

 

I have no doubt you know what you’re talking about here, but there are other costs to consider besides the cost of parts.  It does need to be developed, tested, manufacturer, and supported to a limited number of customers that very well may be insulted that you are asking for them to pay for it at cost or even that they have to use it all.     I may be wrong, but since Sonos hasn’t created the device you’re wanting, it seems reasonable to assume it’s not the slam dunk solution you’re imagining it is.

Im not suggesting it a slam dunk but a stand alone chipset in a box, could fix the memory/pricessing. The ikeha speakers are still gonna update, theyre not 'legacy'(yet lol). The software my P5s cant handle is for voice control which they dont use, cant use and i dont want and multiple streaming services. I dont need EVERY streaming service. Who does? sonos are taking the piss. They should at least allow extra memory to be able to sync any okd sonos gear together in a raspberry pi or allow electronics firms to build non-sonos connectors. Put a sonos badge on it & overcharge us 30% off!LOL 

L
Userlevel 3

This announcement is having a significant impact on online reviews, and rightly so. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

C

Trade Up does not appear to be what you would expect either.

 

If I select a Play 5 (Gen 1) to Trade Up, the only speaker option it gives me is the Move. There isn’t an option to trade up to a Play:5 or any other Play speaker.

robinm0
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

One of the attractions of Sonos WAS its support for older hardware; of course, you expect, eventually, that some items will just no longer be capable of running current software and so will be gently phased out. But this is brutal. To commit a form of commercial suicide by announcing that the thousand of pounds spent on speakers, which will be turned into bricks that won’t fetch even a decent price on the 2nd-hand market, has been wasted, is beyond belief. 

The likely outcome is that Sonos’ brand will be permanently blighted, sales will fall and the company will fail, creating even more waste as not even the ‘modern’ units will work.

That is, of course, unless there is still somebody sensible left in the company’s management.

T
Userlevel 4

I think it boils down to the 30% off on trade-in is wayyyyyyy too low. It should be dollar to dollar but I think 70-80% would be reasonable. 

G
Userlevel 2

Been a user since the beginning. Purely coincidental but over the weekend, i realized how much i had invested in Sonos and am still steamed over the privacy policy issues. So i decided to begin making my break. Purchased a 12 zone whole house audio solution that i will hard wire and integrate powered speakers as well. I will still use a couple of Connects for convenience while waiting for other streaming and library alternatives. All this will reduce by dependency on Sonos to 800$ or less- a manageable sum.

Ive noticed my system getting less and less responsive over time so perhaps this is because of the issues Sonos cites on the legacy products. When i purchased them, streaming wasn't an option and it was nice that they added the feature. Their software design team and the manner in which they add features is folly though. There should be lots more flexibility so mixed system users can add only the features they want so the older products are capable. All electronics wear out and i would have been delighted to upgrade at that time. But to be greeted with an in your face email much like the earlier privacy one is simply a bridge too far. My timing was lucky and in a few months, i will have shrunk my Sonos footprint to a minimum. Less convenient but more control-seems like a good trade.

Wish i was in the groupthink meeting that resulted in this policy. It’s only 10 pct of the units guys-no big deal. Yeah except these were you most loyal customers. I learned my lesson. Something tells me they haven't.

 

A
Userlevel 4
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Another early adopter of Sonos here, and how embarrassing the number of mates I have promoted Sonos to!

We helped build your Company, and this is what you do.  

I won't be walking past the Bose stand anymore feeling superior.  This is a disgrace and offering a 30% discount is below contempt.

John Lewis say they are never knowingly undersold, but they must be having a pang of conscience selling me a Sonos unit in 2015 to find it “Legacy”, less than 5 years later.  Add that to the other 5 legacy products I have, and I like many on here feel cheated.

I think all reputable resellers should think long and hard about this, and should they continue to sell Sonos products, be forced to put a notice near the product explaining that support may be arbitrarily withdrawn in the future, rendering the product susceptible to obsolescence.

 

Sonos surely must have known this kind of shoddy practice would backfire on them big time.

It smacks of a CEO asserting ‘authority’ on the customer by arrogantly assuming Joe Public is so swooning of Sonos they’ll swallow any old baloney to keep them loyal, but as others have said there’s now a multitude of other companies doing similar products for a less extortionate price.

On a personal level, after finally managing to get Plex working on Sonos (to get around the 65,000 limit Sonos were forced to admit existed), to now get the e-mail saying that all my Sonos equipment is ‘legacy’ & offering a derisory discount toward more equipment which can be rendered near-obsolete by e-mail as some kind of mistaken attempt at compensation, is the final nail in the Sonos coffin. 

10 Years ago Sonos was the only player in town.  

Not any longer, but I hope the CEO takes a long, hard look at the posts here to appreciate the level of mistrust loyal Sonos customers now feel towards the company.

A
Userlevel 4
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It’s funny, Bluetooth sounds way more compelling now. At least it’s a universal standard that won’t brick my speakers

R
Userlevel 5
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Something had to happen due to the age of some of the products - that was inevitable and let’s be clear at some stage more products will become “legacy”. I am far from happy but have waited 24 hours to try and be measured.

 The limitations of the older products was always going to present a major problem to moving forward and the Sonos business model is slightly broken (Sonos is not the only company with this problem). The problem is a) that the market demands that you continue to enhance the product line capabilities but this can only be funded by the sale of new product; mainly because we have not yet reached a point where the consumer is prepared to “rent” the product and b) to develop the product means that sooner or later it will not be possible to retro fit such enhancements into legacy equipment.

There are ways forward and Sonos have made an attempt to mitigate the inevitable.  Sadly you have fallen short in the mitigation and have made a mess of the communication. When the dust settles it could have a major impact of the company.

My own take on the solution is that you should have provided a software version for the legacy that would continue to provide the service as is today. This version could have been updated with the minor tweeks necessary to keep existing APIs working with third parties should they be modified. The software of the modern devices would be changed to recognise legacy and not ask them to do something they are not capable to do. It is possible that this might have forced more current devices into legacy but provides for a long term working model that could contain a number of legacy versions. And whilst it means there would be multiple code bases it would not be the normal issue of multiple code bases because the legacy code base(s) would only need very minor modification for third party API change.  Others have suggested similar approaches. Undoubtedly this would have still created ire but it would have been a much more sustainable position that the one Sonos find themselves in. Modern devices would continue to develop and for some people the newer features would result in additional purchases and replacements of legacy and thus revenue stream.   

I recognise that this solution falls into the area of Sonos having to spend money with potentially little return but the alternative might be even worse with overall reducing revenues.

I guess lots of calculations have been done on the impact to the business  and revenue streams but reputational risk is inordinately difficult to assess. The competition is catching up and not withstanding your lawsuit with Google (and then Amazon?) real alternatives to Sonos are a coming.

I’m not sure Sonos have done a full Gerald Ratner but they have come dangerously close.

The decision needs to be rethought and an end to end solution communicated. The current position of further information will come in May is a running sore for the next 4 months that will do the business no good.

One third of my Sonos environment classified as legacy (the most expensive third) the remaining two thirds likely to be in the next round. Planned further spend this year is now on hold. Recommending Sonos also on hold (and I know of some who bought solely because of recommendation). If however Sonos implement something similar to the above solution then the recommendations would be even stronger

A
Userlevel 1

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am with this announcement. I really thought I was investing in a concept that was truly innovative and customer focused, allowing me to build a system over a number of years. I have clearly got this very wrong and am left feeling extremely foolish and undervalued as a loyal customer. My trust in Sonos is now non-existent and I am sad that I will no longer experience the pleasure of adding to my system. I purchased Beam this very month, I am left wondering whether this could be classed as misselling given that I will not receive updates without considerable further outlay. 

S

When I first started investing in Sonos products, they was really the only show in town for the money. I have continued adding to that system because it worked pretty seemlessly for most of the time and so it was the easiest thing to do (although my Beam has been disappointingly unstable compared to the ‘legacy’ products in my system - how ironic) . Now Sonos go and announce this debacle.

It is also ironic that I am now made aware of all the competitors that have emerged over the last 5 years - Bluesound, Bose, Denon to name a few - from angry customer posts on Sonos’ own website!

Sonos would do well to remember that many of their new competitors have other revenue lines/streams other than multi-room hifi - as far as I can see Sonos does not. To alienate their historic customer base, whilst at the same time putting doubts into the minds of future customers as to just how long their premium products will work for, seems a pretty dumb plan.

Some would say they are “Doing a Ratner…..”

 

B
Userlevel 1

I was such a sponsor of Sonos before this, in fact, I think I should have been paid commission!  But with this situation, I now feel responsible for allot of friends getting systems that are almost all considered legacy.  I’m afraid I feel this is more greed than anything else.  I’m doing my research right now and will probably move away from Sonos, not because the alternatives are better solutions, but because I feel this is morally wrong and my trust has gone.  Furthermore, quite insulted with the discount on RRP when I can get discounted products locally.  Makes no sense to through more money at Sonos.   

    

P
Userlevel 3
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I think i’m also away to speak to my fund manager, make sure I don’t own any stock - I suspect that’s going to continue to drop as consumer confidence tanks.

C
Userlevel 3

As others have said, clarifying “Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes” would be very useful.  Mainly, if a provider changes their integration, will legacy products be updated accordingly?  Obviously nobody expects AI or voice recognition or any other new features on their legacy products, just the ability to keep using what we have.

B

Sorry Sonos, I’m a fan, but you’ve dropped one here. I know many will now not consider buying a product as you will continue to make them out of date. 
maybe you should consider a possible hardware solution patch or make upgrading cheaper. 30% discount just doesn’t do it on an expensive item that should last a lifetime. 
With a phone, some people buy the latest one to get the tech, but at least the old versions continue to work! 
really damaging for your system and reputation and I will not be buying any more.

C
Userlevel 1

Like many here I have been a Sonos user and supporter since it’s early days. I suppose it was people like us that enabled Sonos to grow. Nobody explained to me that my functioning Sonos equipment would become obsolete. Like many I bought the Connect amp to play through my two traditional Wharfedale speakers. As I see it I’m going to have to shell out at some stage @ £400 to replace the amp if the Trade Up scheme remains in operation; £600 if it doesn’t. Equally how long before the Play 1 speakers I have in other rooms will become obsolete. It’s a quandary and doesn’t sit well with me. 

D
Userlevel 1

No new story here - just the same complaint. I, too, have spent thousands on products over the years, all of which are suddenly to become obsolete.  30% off is not a smart trade off when I consider that my 25 year old JBL speakers still sound and work as well as they did the day I got them.  

 Goodbye, Sonos.

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

This announcement is having an impact on online reviews. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

 

 

 

 

Wow, 71% bad reviews already on Trustpilot.

Sonos have reacted way too slowly to the backlash.


I can’t see this ending up well at all.

Short of press release today revoking legacy, this is looking like game over.
Such a shame.

 

 

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

I’ve done all my ranting and believe they are set in their ways and will not change so…

My personal solution:

I’ve now decided to build a new Wi-Fi network that will not be connected to the internet.

Local network files such as mp3 and FLAC (as long as not 24bit) will continue to play OK.

Plugged into my 4 year old ’Legacy’ Sonos Connect (which sounds amazing btw through a Benchmark DAC, Naim 42.5/110 and AE1’s)

A new PC with digital output could achieve Internet radio and Spotify (whatever floats your boat) being accessed by a Remote Desktop client on my phone. A bit more clunky than the Sonos App but wouldn’t change every week.

Most importantly, would be cheaper and last longer than 5 years (now known as Sonos years).

 

I’d love some ideas on how to improve this concept if anyone has any.

I’ll start with just a 2nd SSID on a separate network but may have to have a 3rd VLAN.

 

You used to be so good Sonos, what happened? ☹️

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

This announcement is having an impact on online reviews. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

I’ve added a review and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Sonos will probably decide to suppress this forum discussion sooner or later, but they can’t remove the reviews on other sites.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

This is far more reaching than just sonos, let’s say Spotify change something in there streaming api if that happens and I can’t stream via sonos Spotify will be cancelled aswell, this applies to all streaming services  

T
Userlevel 1

Well this is all becoming a marvellous business school case study on how to cock things up spectacularly. Slow hand clap. 

C

This is very depressing news. I have 3 connects and a play 5 that are deemed obsolete, as well as some newer units. Like many folk on here, I was a fairly early adopter and have been very satisfied with the overall sonos experience, bar a few glitches in the early days. The fact that sonos appears not to support different firmware versions across it’s product offerings seems very short-sighted and demonstrates poor strategic systems architectural decision making.

I am not going to rush out and upgrade any of my components, even with a 30% discount teaser, for no discernible (to me) improvement. I bought my first units back in 2012 and still use the same functionality as I did back then; connectivity to my NAS music server and the tune-in radio service. I don’t need or want voice activation, paid-for streaming services, etc. If and when my current set-up stops working, I won’t be buying SONOS again, only to face the same issue at some point in the future. I have other audiophile components that I’ve had for 20+ years that stiil work and sound awesome.     

Come on SONOS, you can do much better than this!               

J
Userlevel 1

I spent somewhere between £5,000 and £6,000 on Sonos products back in 2015, including a Play:5 (first Gen).  Now barely 5 years later it becomes startlingly clear this is not going to be the long-term investment I hoped.

I won’t be spending a penny more after this disgraceful announcement.  A company that decides to try and extort money out of its existing, loyal customer base rather than go after new customers is a dying company.  Sonos can no longer be trusted.  Perhaps if you had invested more time and effort in true innovation in recent times rather than a string of lacklustre revisions you would not be in this predicament, but instead we the customers are asked to pay for your mistakes.

That’s not something I’m prepared to do.  As and when you declare the remainder of my 14 five-year-old Sonos products to be “legacy”, I will be replacing them with a different brand.  I know I won’t be alone.

User811083
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Bluesound is starting to look very good right now.

Chris Blackwell
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