End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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C

Like most on the community I have spend plenty of money investing in Sonos equipment over the last 10 years, and now to be told that it may be obsolete soon and you will do me a favour by giving me a 30% discount on upgrades 

Shocking way to treat loyal and long standing customers, and the way you are avoiding direct contact by only allowing communication through this medium 

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

So the original thread locked and after an hour 6 pages already, let’s look at facts I have a system that works no issues no problems. You state the product is at the max of processing so what are you going to introduce to stretch that processing further. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But I’m not going to be forced to upgrade so what will I do once I can’t stream from Napster, simple get a raspberry pie and create a server that does the streaming and use my legacy hardware locally to stream that music ,not elegant but it may work

 

so long and thanks for the fish

M
Userlevel 1

It’s sad.  This announcement specifically targets SONOSs longest term most loyal customers by definition…   It is an incredibly short sighted move.   Screw you longest term customers...

C

I can understand that older tech products may eventually stop receiving updates from their manufacturers - Apple ‘pioneered’ this approach and Google are doing it with Chromebooks - some of which are less than 5 years old. However neither Apple or Google prevent your newer devices from receiving updates unless you replace the old ones - that is extortion.

Given that Sonos has told me *exactly* which of my products are about to be classified as ‘legacy’ (4 of them, cost to upgrade even with 30% discount is more than £1600 incidentally) surely it is not beyond them just to stop pushing software updates to those devices whilst maintaining updates for my ‘modern’ devices?

To offer a (presumably hastily devised) ‘solution’ of splitting a system between legacy and modern devices defeats the entire purpose of a multiroom system if they are no longer able to work together.

baconator
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

Love that this thread is growing like the last one they took down. I've already started to research other products, so when my 4 Connect AMPs get bricked I will be ready to spend my hard earned $$ somewhere else. #sonosboycott

L
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Thanks for those that mentioned Yamaha’s MusicCast a few pages back.

I’ve been very happy with my growing Sonos system over the last 10 years - it’s been pricey, but the ease of use, quality and longevity seemed worth it - and so haven’t really kept up to date on what else is available.

Now I have over half my system (four of my six zones plus CR200 and bridge) becoming ‘legacy’.

I’ve been pondering whether to ‘Trade Up’ ... for me this would mean turning my existing stuff into e-waste (eugh) and considering whether I can do without one or two of my current zones and swapping my two old P:5s for Ones as I can’t afford the like-for-like. 

However, now I know there is at least one decent looking - and cheaper! - alternative I will keep what I have now in legacy mode and if the time comes when it no longer does what I bought it for I’ll jump ship. Highly probable no more Sonos purchases for me.

B
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

I’ve been trying to stay positive here, and have been continuously contacting Sonos support encouraging them to get someone from the senior team to engage, but to no avail. 

As a result, sadly the last 24 hours have turned into a cluster for the company:

  • Instead of reaching out to its long-time, loyal customer community to articulate the technical challenges and work together on possible solutions, Sonos just puts out a formal mandate about a so-called “Legacy” plan that seems financially punitive, will intentionally compromise even the newest devices, is extremely non-environmental, feels a lot like forced obsolescence coupled with a lackluster price discount, and calls into question the life-span of even new purchases being made today.
  • In fewer than 12 hours, over 1300 posts came in to the Sonos community thread on this topic, and I don’t believe a single response was made by the company.
  • Instead of rolling up its sleeves and engaging with its users, Sonos then decides to simply shut down the now 36 page thread, and issues a few “clarifications” that don’t really address the core concerns from the original release.

Unfortunately, the net result is entirely predictable: the existing customer base (which someone has quoted representing 37% of annual revenue from ongoing purchases) now is on fire and feels like they are being gouged by the company, and the emotion/disappointment/frustration from the newly closed community thread is now spilling out into mainstream press and going viral (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51206604 ). So in one ill-conceived move, Sonos has not only alienated its core customer base, but has also created a PR nightmare. Customers who are known for being loyal, patient, and even strong evangelists for Sonos are now instead talking with each other about potential replacement solutions and even class-action suits against the company. Sigh. 

S

Ryan - I gotta say you’ve always been very helpful and calm on this forum. But I have to hope that even you think this is ridiculous and are getting your resume updated as Sonos is now a complete joke to your loyal customers. I know you have to put food on your table but at some point take a look around, read these comments. Do you really want to continue working for a company like this? Heck, they’ll probably fire you without notice anyway, they have proven that they don’t care about their customers. I can’t imagine they care about their employees either. 

 

And shutting down the other thread. Oof. Not a good look. But I don’t expect much from Sonos any longer. 

 

Now I gotta figure out how to sell some legacy speakers that no one will want. Maybe send them back to Sonos postage due? 

C
Userlevel 1

 

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

 

 

This is, as you well know, self-contradictory. The Sonos platform has ALWAYS since day one been sold as an integrated ecosystem that plays music from remote sources. With the exception of the 3.5mm input on some devices, there is literally no way to play music without a network service of some kind. The nature of network services, especially, but not solely, streaming services is that the interfaces change over time and clients that wish to integrate have to be modified in-step.

Refusing to provide maintenance updates to a product that relies on integrated services for its core function is 100% killing it dead. We just don’t know the exact time of death yet.

 

 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

This is, as you well know, disingenuous. It would be ENTIRELY possible to split the codebase such that the older devices keep their original feature set while the newer devices move on. The streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music are going to change and necessitate updates to the Sonos devices, yes, but until such time as Apple switches to projecting holograms of the musicians in to your home they’re not going to change to an extent that the older devices can’t handle.

Implicit in what you’re saying here is that you currently DON’T do this, and so my Play 5 is currently carrying the weight of all the features you’ve put in your codebase that it can’t use. Here’s an idea - strip all that bollocks out and use the extra resource to maintain support for the Play 5’s feature set.

 

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Some of your partners do enhance their software over time, that’s true. As a secondary tip, perhaps Sonos could try this rather than just killing bits of it off *cough* desktop Sonos controller software *cough*. I’m not sure I could tell you anything that’s changed in the Sonos app the whole time I’ve had it.

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take

that action.

 

Explain to us one good technical reason why a play 5 that has been able to handle a synchronised audio stream for the last 5 years is suddenly going to stop being able to do so. Not got one? Good. Now explain to us why one of the more modern products won’t be able to send a play 5 one of these audio streams as it does today.

 

 

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

At this point you deserve kudos for simply having the gall to keep presenting this extortion as if it’s some sort of perk to the current customer base. Well done, you have a bright future in PR.

 

Great reply. I totally agree about sending streams in legacy and modern formats. It’s just a protocol at the end of the day. Fork the code and add some backwards compatibility in the modern code which streams data in the appropriate format to each device. I’d love to know a technical reason why that isn’t possible.

 

Yeah, exactly. This isn't a case of “can’t”, it’s a case of “won’t”. And for that, Sonos, you’ll probably get the death penalty as a company. So be sure to put yourself on the EOL list.

B
Userlevel 1

I will comment the same as what I did on the previous thread… locking down brand new hardware that is still within its warranty period - just because you own legacy kit is plain wrong.

I will never purchase Sonos again, and will either sell my current kit, or just wait for it to die and replace with a different brand.

P
Userlevel 2

I completely understand the limitations imposed by the tech on the development of new features; that’s fine, I’ll stick with what I have now and skip new stuff. But I don’t understand why what we have now can’t be maintained. I currently stream from Spotify, so should be able to continue to do so for the foreseeable. I really don't need voice assistant nonsense. 30% off to trade in a house full of perfectly fine kit - joke.

 

Way to go totally destroying brand loyalty.

 

Not sure what you mean by maintained.  Sonos is dropping support, which doesn’t mean that your legacy products will suddenly stop working. Spotify will continue to work until Spotify changes things on their side.  Sonos has stated they will provide assistance to customers with issues short of software updates...although it seems like they may do some minor updates now?  Not sure on that aspect.

 

Well is sounds like we’re facing a situation where, for example, Spotify make an API change, in June, perhaps for reasons unrelated to Sonos, and we’ll no longer be able to stream on “legacy” gear. What a result that’ll be.

L
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Speaking from experience and working in an environment where retiring legacy products happens all the time, you should have approached this one of two ways - or even ideally both:

  1. Had your engineering team create a bridge device, much like the Ring Chime, to bridge the gap on the obsolete speakers and amps and the new tech being created.  If you can create wifi speakers in sync, you can create a bridge that will act as the brain while the speakers are in essence dumb or thin clients.  Then all you would need to support is the bridge device which can be universal for all speakers that fall out of support.
  2. The 30% offer is a slap in the face to a retail price.  $650 for a new 2 channel amp is insane and to tell users to basically throw away their original $499 amp just to spend the same on a new one where the sound of the music is almost exactly the same is just unrealistic.  The offer should have been at least 50% or even more creative to “buy back” the old speaker and apply the credit to a new one.

I spent thousands like all other consumers with no indication the money would be wasted 5 months from now and I can honestly say buying speakers going forward from Sonos won’t be my first thought, but more likely my second or third.

A
Userlevel 5
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Emailed ceo,no reply what a surprise

contacted tech support on phone for a call back hey surprise no reply 

 

S
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Not cool with you closing the other thread Ryan….it only makes this mess stink more.

In that thread there have been nearly 1400 negative comments in one day.  This thread will probably top that as Sonos owners digest the information.  You are headline news on the BBC in the UK and not for anything good I’m afraid.

Your clarifications at the top of this thread do not go anyway to appease me.  Your comment about ‘separating legacy products from your modern products’ is not detailed enough for me.  You say more information is coming in May, but we need it well before that!

And if that clarification doesn’t come soon, then I’m done with Sonos.
 

P
Userlevel 2

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

I am absolutely fuming regarding this!I purchased 2 play 5 speakers for nearly £1,000 only a few years ago and at the time of purchase was never informed whatsoever that this so called "prestigious "music system would be rendered useless in a couple of years!If this is what Sonos the company is about I shall never purchase any other product it produces!I will also post on every forum I possibly can about the dulisgusting way you have conducted business!A 30% reduction does not wash Im afraid after already spending my £1,000.Sonos should replace the items free of charge!or provide the required software updates for life!I intend to seek legal advice regarding this rip off and already noted forums of users complaining to media outlets including the BBC news etc!Do the right thing and try to save your reputation as a honest company and address these issues as soon as possible!

C
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

So my 4 Play 5 Gen I’s are becoming software bricks (bought in 2017/2018).  Why aren’t the Play 1’s I bought in 2017 also becoming Bricks?  Adding 4 more Play 5’s even with the 30% discount is preposterous.  I’ve always sung praises for your Company (including on Seeking Alpha as a Shareholder) but this is a nightmare.  Get it together!

K

 

  1. I believe this is the answer you’re looking for: You will be able get the app that works with a legacy system to use on new mobile devices, or if you accidentally delete it.
  2. You would either have a legacy system with legacy devices and modern devices, or a modern system and a legacy system. If it’s all one legacy system, than yes, they’ll group together, but if it’s two separate systems, than they’re two, separate systems.
  3. You will be able to add products to your legacy systems. We'll have more to share on the experience come May. 
  4. No, Sonos players are a system and won’t operate properly with different versions in one system.
  5. Yes, if you mostly use the NAS drive, the only likely change with your system will be that you’ll stop getting updates. Everything else will continue to function exactly as it does today. Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. 

@Ryan S : Something like this needs to be front and centre, and remain easily accessible to prevent at least some of the angry posts, by not getting buried somewhere in another long thread.

I find item 5 to be interesting and perhaps needing some more clarifications in the suggested sticky type of post - for folks that may think of going ahead for now with a legacy system with legacy and modern devices, in one interoperable system, that will still get bug fixes as you have said somewhere. But no upgrades, that is clear. You have also been quite clear in saying in 5 above that such a legacy system will not face any issues in future playing music from the local NAS - including if the NAS was to be changed? And while I understand the caveat about streaming services, can you tell us how many service software changes related to these have happened starting beginning of 2018 till end of 2019 and from how many services, as some guide on what to expect in the future?

Further, suppose someone has a legacy system with legacy and modern products kept running from May onwards on legacy software version, and who decides say in 2022 to move to a fully modern system. At that time will the 30% offer still be available to replace the legacy products with modern products? And can that someone then migrate his entire modern system in one hop to the version running for modern systems in 2022?

Speaking for myself, I think all of the above will help make a better decision on what to do in May.

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

 

Well is sounds like we’re facing a situation where, for example, Spotify make an API change, in June, perhaps for reasons unrelated to Sonos, and we’ll no longer be able to stream on “legacy” gear. What a result that’ll be.

No, it’s worse than that. If you dare to OWN legacy gear then none of your system will be able to accept the update, so you won’t be able to stream on ANY OF IT.

L
Userlevel 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

You missed out a vital point, does this mean the legacy and modern will be interoperable? Or completely seperate? I am fine with my legacy speakers not getting updates, but I want my modern speakers to get updates and new features. I then EXEPCT to be still able to group music between legacy and modern.

This is the main issue on the table!  I have 26 SONOS devices, 16 of which are “legacy”. If you tell me I have to separate them out, then you gave failed in your mission, and why I purchased $10k of equipment from you… to have Whole House Audio.  

@David_366 and @morgan4x4

 

 

With all due respect Ryan, and we know you are trying your hardest ….


 

A stand alone box of chips with an ethernet cable, like a raspberry pi, could have as much memory as NASA, a wifi chip, like IKEA sonos speakers, and ethernet in/out sockets to connect between router and 'legacy' equipment. This wee box could sort the memory/processing needs for 50 quid, or put a sonos badge on it and charge 200! !LOL LOL lol ha ha ha .

TBH - I’d be fine with your suggestion of a standalone ‘box of chips’ which would convert my ‘legacy’ Play 5 into a usable device - even, say, a cheap Bluetooth adapter so the perfectly good (excellent sounding) speaker didn’t end up on some rubbish dump - let’s be honest, they won’t be fully recycled in the fullest sense of the word.  Bricking it makes little sense (ask SONOS shareholders who are doing exactly that right now, I’d imagine!)

P
Userlevel 2

I am absolutely fuming regarding this!I purchased 2 play 5 speakers for nearly £1,000 only a few years ago and at the time of purchase was never informed whatsoever that this so called "prestigious "music system would be rendered useless in a couple of years!If this is what Sonos the company is about I shall never purchase any other product it produces!I will also post on every forum I possibly can about the dulisgusting way you have conducted business!A 30% reduction does not wash Im afraid after already spending my £1,000.Sonos should replace the items free of charge!or provide the required software updates for life!I intend to seek legal advice regarding this rip off and already noted forums of users complaining to media outlets including the BBC news etc!Do the right thing and try to save your reputation as a honest company and address these issues as soon as possible!

David Page

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

When I read this topic, I hear two things:

  1. Your old devices won’t get any new updates because there’s no more room for additional services you don’t want and will never use. Making a plug-in type firmware where you can choose what you need is too hard.
  2. We closed the announcement topic because people were really mad at us.

 

L
Userlevel 1

Please confirm that the 30% "trade up" or discount is on the lowest price offered for the identical yet newer device and not something else. I have heard different reports that this was not the case and want to make sure we are on the same page before I agree to your hostage demands and you murder my existing devices. So for every pair of Play:5 I replace it's 30% off this?

 

T
Userlevel 2

This is a masterclass into how to run a good brand into the ground with incredibly poor and greed based decisions.

 

If if I hadn’t wasted so much money on SONOS 4 years ago which is now obsolete it would be funny.

 

BOSE for me!

 

 

 

 

 

C
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Oh and by the way, the email you sent two days ago said I had three Legacy products.  Logging in today on my account it now says four Legacy products.  Is this because I’ve offended you?  You better get this together, the Shareholder meeting is coming up.

S

30% coupled with the constant reminder on my app and emails is beyond insulting. I have (2) play 5’s and (6) Play 1’s. I have decided not to bite on replacing my only Play 5 Gen 1. I’m not going to do this every 5 years. 30% is called a sale...not an attempt to appease loyal customers who have invested heavily. Give me 30% off a sale price at least. 

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