End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4
  1. No, Sonos players are a system and won’t operate properly with different versions in one system.

It is ENTIRELY within Sonos’ gift to change this. This is not a fundamental law of the universe.

Modify the software.

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

So Sonos will still release firmware to fix bugs. Will a streaming service that is currently supported changing API be considered a bug and receive a fix on legacy hardware?

This is the crux of the issue for me. If say Spotify changes something that means Sonos needs to change, then will it get fixed? I don’t see “upgrading” at 30% reduced price as an incentive, far from it. 

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Here’s some exciting news on the upgrade program!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sop=10&_osacat=0&_odkw=sonos&_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311.R7.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=sonos+play+5&_sacat=0

Lots of people choosing to upgrade their end of life’d kit to MONEY they can spend on an alternative product.

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

Ryan - this is the most concerning thing (for me at least) - you say: Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. - So you are confirming that you won’t be updating legacy devices to cope with service software changes. It seems unlikely that these changes would impose unrealistic demands on legacy devices, so why won’t you be updating the software?

S
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

another bad move. closing the original thread and creating this new topic. unbelievable...

keep the angry complaints coming….. dont interact with sonos support. shaft them big time like they have just done to us.

game over. 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

So Sonos will still release firmware to fix bugs. Will a streaming service that is currently supported changing API be considered a bug and receive a fix on legacy hardware?

This is the crux of the issue for me. If say Spotify changes something that means Sonos needs to change, then will it get fixed? I don’t see “upgrading” at 30% reduced price as an incentive, far from it. 

@MrSwadge, I replied to this a few pages back, but I know some replies get missed. These legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow. 

 

Ryan - this is the most concerning thing (for me at least) - you say: Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. - So you are confirming that you won’t be updating legacy devices to cope with service software changes. It seems unlikely that these changes would impose unrealistic demands on legacy devices, so why won’t you be updating the software?

@PeteD, as above, where possible, we’ll try to update legacy devices, but we might not be able to. The hardware might not be able to support whatever solution is needed.

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
L
Userlevel 1

Trading up would be fine for me, but 30% is a joke, at 75% I would consider trading up. You lost a loyal customer that promoted your products to family and friends for over 10 years. This is a really bad move and I doubt your “damage control” is going to work.

I’m of a similar mindset, that despite my ‘legacy’ Play 5 having been purchased only 4yrs ago.  £330 to replace and effectively stand still, taking the 30% on a new P5.  Still really love the whole SONOS idea in principle, but this is making me look around at the resell value of my existing ‘non-legacy’ kit whilst it’s still considered ‘non-legacy’.  SONOS retailers are going to love it when I and other customers appear at their doors seeking recompense for devices which have been made expensive bricks in such a short time.  I still fail to understand why SONOS think the perfectly functional speaker / wifi devices will need in future more capacity to do other ‘stuff’.  Surely, they as a company could engineer their platform so as to not require heavy duty software on the devices themselves?  It’s not as if the device itself needs to manage the connection back to e.g. Spotify, is it?  This ‘let’s just force them to bin them and pay us for an upgrade’ decision smacks of laziness or weak engineering capability.  I understand digital rot, but if one of my apple laptops becomes unable to use the latest OSX version, I don’t suddenly find I cannot upgrade the others, and the can all happily coexist on the same network.  Sort it out, SONOS!

P
Userlevel 2

I completely understand the limitations imposed by the tech on the development of new features; that’s fine, I’ll stick with what I have now and skip new stuff. But I don’t understand why what we have now can’t be maintained. I currently stream from Spotify, so should be able to continue to do so for the foreseeable. I really don't need voice assistant nonsense. 30% off to trade in a house full of perfectly fine kit - joke.

 

Way to go totally destroying brand loyalty.

melvimbe

 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

You missed out a vital point, does this mean the legacy and modern will be interoperable? Or completely seperate? I am fine with my legacy speakers not getting updates, but I want my modern speakers to get updates and new features. I then EXEPCT to be still able to group music between legacy and modern.

This is the main issue on the table!  I have 26 SONOS devices, 16 of which are “legacy”. If you tell me I have to separate them out, then you gave failed in your mission, and why I purchased $10k of equipment from you… to have Whole House Audio.  

@David_366 and @morgan4x4, these legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow.  

 

 

With all due respect Ryan, and we know you are trying your hardest ….


But it’s time now for Patrick to stand up, and put out a definitive announcement on here, as to what is going to happen.

In that announcement, there are two basic options, one of which will be retracting the crazy ill thought out idea of legacy, and then suggest a plan to keep all of the legacy equipment fully operational (with no loss of current functionality), and hence a chance of keep customers.

The other option, will be to continue with the legacy plans, wave goodbye to the existing 37% of repeat customers (as there is no way they will buy any more equipment), and totally destroy future sales to new customers, as they will rapidly be aware of the bad press, Its’ already on the BBC here in the UK.

Easy.

 

A stand alone box of chips with an ethernet cable, like a raspberry pi, could have as much memory as NASA, a wifi chip, like IKEA sonos speakers, and ethernet in/out sockets to connect between router and 'legacy' equipment. This wee box could sort the memory/processing needs for 50 quid, or put a sonos badge on it and charge 200! !LOL LOL lol ha ha ha .

 

I have no doubt you know what you’re talking about here, but there are other costs to consider besides the cost of parts.  It does need to be developed, tested, manufacturer, and supported to a limited number of customers that very well may be insulted that you are asking for them to pay for it at cost or even that they have to use it all.     I may be wrong, but since Sonos hasn’t created the device you’re wanting, it seems reasonable to assume it’s not the slam dunk solution you’re imagining it is.

Danny
C
Userlevel 1

I am a long time Sonos user and have spent thousands of dollars on your products. I am no longer going to spend a single penny on your products any more. 
 

I don’t even own these ”obsolete” products. I’m just worried now you’re going to do the same thing to the speakers I bought only 4 years ago. I can’t trust any speaker you sell today will become obsolete in a couple of years. I want my system to continue to receive updates and work with older speakers.

 

What a shame. I felt so much loyalty to Sonos

 

I only bought my Play:5 speakers 6 years ago. So you’re closer to getting totally screwed than you might think. 

Whatever the reason, this is a really bad policy. I’ve been a big fan of Sonos. We have 4 Play:5’s, and a whole bunch of other Sonos products that I can see now will need to be replaced eventually. But fool me once...

B

I've got a bunch of Sonos speakers including a full surround sound set plus various speakers in assorted rooms. One of those is a Play 5. Now that speaker is sion to be obsolete?? When will the rest be? Phones + computers make sense to have a limited life span. I never expected that with supposed high end speakers. My confidence in your product is shattered. I will never buy or support your brand again. I've gone from a strong promoter to disappointed critic. Sonos sucks

E

I’ve been a loyal Sonos customer for a number of years now. 

I estimate I’ve spent nearly £6,000 on Sonos products, with my most recent purchase being just last month. 

I was also, up until yesterday, a shareholder.

In the strongest possible terms, I urge you to reconsider your recent planned obsolescence announcement.

It’s a staggeringly wasteful decision, and one that alienates your loyal customers.

Should you not reverse course, I will be unable to continue being a customer or evangelist for your company, and will instead be forced to consider myself hostage to your company and its destructive business practices.

Please reconsider and do the right thing.

T

I’ve been Sonos customer for years and like many on here I have spent over $5,000 pulling my system together piece by piece. The slap in the face by Sonos shows that they are more concerned with forcing existing customers to purchase new temporary products knowing that they will be obsolete in 5 years or less. 

I will be reaching out to Best Buy to see what their return policy is and what promotions they will be offering for Sonos competitor products. I’ve had my Bose products for over 20 years in my media room and they offer lifetime product support and replacement. 

Depending on what I hear I will have the following equipment for sale at 50% of what I paid for them. 

Beam  1
Bridge 1
Connect AMP 1
Move 1
Play 1 6
Play 3 1
Play 5  4
Playbar 1
Sub 2
melvimbe

I completely understand the limitations imposed by the tech on the development of new features; that’s fine, I’ll stick with what I have now and skip new stuff. But I don’t understand why what we have now can’t be maintained. I currently stream from Spotify, so should be able to continue to do so for the foreseeable. I really don't need voice assistant nonsense. 30% off to trade in a house full of perfectly fine kit - joke.

 

Way to go totally destroying brand loyalty.

 

Not sure what you mean by maintained.  Sonos is dropping support, which doesn’t mean that your legacy products will suddenly stop working. Spotify will continue to work until Spotify changes things on their side.  Sonos has stated they will provide assistance to customers with issues short of software updates...although it seems like they may do some minor updates now?  Not sure on that aspect.

Danny
M
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

 

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

 

 

This is, as you well know, self-contradictory. The Sonos platform has ALWAYS since day one been sold as an integrated ecosystem that plays music from remote sources. With the exception of the 3.5mm input on some devices, there is literally no way to play music without a network service of some kind. The nature of network services, especially, but not solely, streaming services is that the interfaces change over time and clients that wish to integrate have to be modified in-step.

Refusing to provide maintenance updates to a product that relies on integrated services for its core function is 100% killing it dead. We just don’t know the exact time of death yet.

 

 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

This is, as you well know, disingenuous. It would be ENTIRELY possible to split the codebase such that the older devices keep their original feature set while the newer devices move on. The streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music are going to change and necessitate updates to the Sonos devices, yes, but until such time as Apple switches to projecting holograms of the musicians in to your home they’re not going to change to an extent that the older devices can’t handle.

Implicit in what you’re saying here is that you currently DON’T do this, and so my Play 5 is currently carrying the weight of all the features you’ve put in your codebase that it can’t use. Here’s an idea - strip all that bollocks out and use the extra resource to maintain support for the Play 5’s feature set.

 

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Some of your partners do enhance their software over time, that’s true. As a secondary tip, perhaps Sonos could try this rather than just killing bits of it off *cough* desktop Sonos controller software *cough*. I’m not sure I could tell you anything that’s changed in the Sonos app the whole time I’ve had it.

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take

that action.

 

Explain to us one good technical reason why a play 5 that has been able to handle a synchronised audio stream for the last 5 years is suddenly going to stop being able to do so. Not got one? Good. Now explain to us why one of the more modern products won’t be able to send a play 5 one of these audio streams as it does today.

 

 

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

At this point you deserve kudos for simply having the gall to keep presenting this extortion as if it’s some sort of perk to the current customer base. Well done, you have a bright future in PR.

 

Great reply. I totally agree about sending streams in legacy and modern formats. It’s just a protocol at the end of the day. Fork the code and add some backwards compatibility in the modern code which streams data in the appropriate format to each device. I’d love to know a technical reason why that isn’t possible.

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

So Sonos will still release firmware to fix bugs. Will a streaming service that is currently supported changing API be considered a bug and receive a fix on legacy hardware?

This is the crux of the issue for me. If say Spotify changes something that means Sonos needs to change, then will it get fixed? I don’t see “upgrading” at 30% reduced price as an incentive, far from it. 

@MrSwadge, I replied to this a few pages back, but I know some replies get missed. These legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow. 

 

Ryan - this is the most concerning thing (for me at least) - you say: Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. - So you are confirming that you won’t be updating legacy devices to cope with service software changes. It seems unlikely that these changes would impose unrealistic demands on legacy devices, so why won’t you be updating the software?

@PeteD, as above, where possible, we’ll try to update legacy devices, but we might not be able to. The hardware might not be able to support whatever solution there is to a theoretical change at the service level. 

 

@Ryan S So, shouldn’t Sonos be offering a simple hardware upgrade kit for our legacy equipment, most people would be happy to pay a nominal fee for an upgrade motherboard. Sonos is supposed to be a sustainable focused company, discarding 5 year old equipment isn’t in line with your company ethos.

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

This new thread didn’t clarify the most important points I had read in the previous thread. Answer these please...
 

  1. Will future controller apps and pc based software continue to work with legacy systems? (with existing functionality)
  2. Can Legacy and Modern speakers be grouped together?
  3. Will legacy systems allow other legacy speakers to be added after May?
  4. Will you allow hardware with various versions of Sonos OS to work side by side on a single Sonos network?
  5. I mainly use a NAS with my Sonos and rarely use streaming services. Will I still be able to do this after May?

Sonos do not delete the other thread. 

Mirrors my concerns although do also use streaming

@matthew.bacon and @attacama40  my previous post in this thread answers some of those questions, but you might have missed.​

  1. I believe this is the answer you’re looking for: You will be able get the app that works with a legacy system to use on new mobile devices, or if you accidentally delete it.
  2. You would either have a legacy system with legacy devices and modern devices, or a modern system and a legacy system. If it’s all one legacy system, than yes, they’ll group together, but if it’s two separate systems, than they’re two, separate systems.
  3. You will be able to add products to your legacy systems. We'll have more to share on the experience come May. 
  4. No, Sonos players are a system and won’t operate properly with different versions in one system.
  5. Yes, if you mostly use the NAS drive, the only likely change with your system will be that you’ll stop getting updates. Everything else will continue to function exactly as it does today. Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. 

Are you able to reconcile how answers 3 and 4 will be reconciled? If I buy a new component (later version) to add to a “legacy” system will I be able to downgrade the new component? what about to a version that predates the new component?

Are you ensuring that you will provide the means to downgrade the firmware in all future components to match the firmware in someone’s existing “legacy” system?

This is a critical question!

U
Userlevel 1

Like everyone else, this notice has stopped me from considering any additional purchases.

The appeal of the Sonos system was three fold, quality components, simplicity and finally the ability to expand my system with new products.

It now looks like all of these thanks have been crushed. Quality components don’t matter if I’ve got to replace it in circa 5 years, I’ll by cheaper products. Simplicity, not if I have to set up multiple networks for my legacy devices. I’ll go back to a simple amp and speaker set up and just physically plug my iPad in. Expand the system, I’m not paying anything else to Sonos if the product has such a short life span.

Someone needs to rethink this or create a hardware solution, a “home hub” solution that can manage/stream the music to the legacy units and keep connected for the new units seems the best bet. Guarantee to keep the system working for 15 years+ if you replace the “home hub”  is also needed. It’s the only way I’d even consider looking at Sonos again.

 

 

J
Userlevel 6
Badge +1

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

We’d like to answer some of the questions we’ve seen come up regularly in one easy thread so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Further question: how many messages of support for this scam have you had? I'll bet you 30% of the cost of a nee Bluesound system there havent been any! 

Bluesound: better than sonos.... Ive seen that comment all over your Community thread. Even the new one you opened coz all the comments were CRITICAL. Wonder if Bluesound or Denon  will offer a better landfill deal for sonos products than sonos itself?

M
Userlevel 4
Badge

Like everyone else, this notice has stopped me from considering any additional purchases.

The appeal of the Sonos system was three fold, quality components, simplicity and finally the ability to expand my system with new products.

It now looks like all of these thanks have been crushed. Quality components don’t matter if I’ve got to replace it in circa 5 years, I’ll by cheaper products. Simplicity, not if I have to set up multiple networks for my legacy devices. I’ll go back to a simple amp and speaker set up and just physically plug my iPad in. Expand the system, I’m not paying anything else to Sonos if the product has such a short life span.

Someone needs to rethink this or create a hardware solution, a “home hub” solution that can manage/stream the music to the legacy units and keep connected for the new units seems the best bet. Guarantee to keep the system working for 15 years+ if you replace the “home hub”  is also needed. It’s the only way I’d even consider looking at Sonos again.

 

 

It's kind of absurd that Sonos, who brought us a device to hook up our old speakers, can't do the same for their own “legacy” devices. It's not “planned obsolescence” as much as its forced obsolescence.

M
Userlevel 3
Badge

This new thread didn’t clarify the most important points I had read in the previous thread. Answer these please...
 

  1. Will future controller apps and pc based software continue to work with legacy systems? (with existing functionality)
  2. Can Legacy and Modern speakers be grouped together?
  3. Will legacy systems allow other legacy speakers to be added after May?
  4. Will you allow hardware with various versions of Sonos OS to work side by side on a single Sonos network?
  5. I mainly use a NAS with my Sonos and rarely use streaming services. Will I still be able to do this after May?

Sonos do not delete the other thread. 

Mirrors my concerns although do also use streaming

@matthew.bacon and @attacama40  my previous post in this thread answers some of those questions, but you might have missed.​

  1. I believe this is the answer you’re looking for: You will be able get the app that works with a legacy system to use on new mobile devices, or if you accidentally delete it.
  2. You would either have a legacy system with legacy devices and modern devices, or a modern system and a legacy system. If it’s all one legacy system, than yes, they’ll group together, but if it’s two separate systems, than they’re two, separate systems.
  3. You will be able to add products to your legacy systems. We'll have more to share on the experience come May. 
  4. No, Sonos players are a system and won’t operate properly with different versions in one system.
  5. Yes, if you mostly use the NAS drive, the only likely change with your system will be that you’ll stop getting updates. Everything else will continue to function exactly as it does today. Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. 

I see. So two further questions…

6. Will modern speakers come with a legacy mode? Otherwise those wishing to extend their all legacy system (and keep a single multi-room network) will most likely look to another brand which is the same as having separate apps for legacy and modern networks.
 

  1. As new iOS versions etc are released Sonos will support a legacy app as well or will this functionality be baked into future apps as well. A legacy mode if you like. 
melvimbe

I've got a bunch of Sonos speakers including a full surround sound set plus various speakers in assorted rooms. One of those is a Play 5. Now that speaker is sion to be obsolete?? When will the rest be? Phones + computers make sense to have a limited life span. I never expected that with supposed high end speakers. My confidence in your product is shattered. I will never buy or support your brand again. I've gone from a strong promoter to disappointed critic. Sonos sucks

 Sonos are both high end speakers and smart speakers...meaning they have the same sort of hardware and software that your phone + computers do.    In your next choice for speakers, you may want to stay away from smart speakers.  Other brands may last longer, hard to tell since most haven’t been around as long as Sonos.  Going with cheap speakers is not much of an investiment, and you may do better from one of the tech giants, since they can subsides their smart speakers from their other lines of business.

Danny
J
Userlevel 6
Badge +1

This is shocking, it feels like “upgrade and pay us or else...”. Unless they change direction I will never buy another Sonos product again. I have 6 speakers currently and have spent thousands of pounds. 

Its not just blackmail, its extortion too! LOL 

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Have Sonos closed the other thread to stop the negative feedback? They clearly do not know who to deal with customers. I am yet to come across a customer who thinks this is a good idea.

Sonos has some of the loyalist consumers you will find I imagine as we buy products to extend our current system without giving much of a thought to other manufacturers. For me that will change and almost ten years of loyalty to Sonos has ended and I will look to replace my “legacy” Play:5 device with something non sonos and leave the rest of my “Modern” Sonos system intact.

Hey, Johnny, 

Who's gonna buy your play5 for 100quid when you can get a brick to do the same job for less than one pound? 

I've got two of the effin paperweights. 

Shame on sonos. Shame on Patrick Spence, CEO of sonos. 

Well the Play 5 is at least worth the value of a 30% discount to someone looking to buy a new Sonos product.  On a Sonos Amp, that’s $195.

rosenqui
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

As a software developer myself, I get it that software evolves at a rapid pace and that you’re at the mercy of 3rd parties for things like SDK updates, protocol updates, new codecs, etc.

It boggles the mind however that a more palatable solution couldn’t be found. Is it not possible to have builds of firmware for the legacy devices that keep the command & control components, mesh audio, and basic streaming services?

What about doing a circuit board swap? Surely the components other than the circuit board are still perfectly fine on these devices, and it would be a lot cheaper for customers than the laughable trade-up program. It seems a shame to be throwing out perfectly good enclosures, amplification components, speaker drivers, etc.

I can see Sonos taking a sizable financial hit as owners migrate to Denon Heos, Amazon, Google, Apple, Bluesound, etc. over this.  There will be a much larger than normal supply of used (non-legacy) Sonos gear on the market as people change vendors.

I wonder if Sonos has taken into account that this will also prevent many existing customers from buying new Sonos gear, thereby hurting the bottom line even more. I was toying with the idea of getting a Beam for the Ensuite, but now I won’t. I also won’t be able to buy any new Sonos gear after May because it won’t work with my new/legacy mixed network, and I probably won’t be able to roll it back to 10.X to get it to work.

I’m skeptical that the option of separating the legacy into its own network will be useful to me. I’ve got a Connect:AMP acting as the rear surrounds for a Playbar+SUB. I can’t separate that unit without losing my 5.1 setup. I also love the feature where I can have the Playbar TV audio play in other adjacent rooms, so I can have the TV sound in the kitchen and office. I’ll lose that ability if my Connect:AMPs are relegated to being independent of the non-legacy units.

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